2025 NHL Draft: Lose a ton for Porter Martone

[hohosaregood]

the draft is just a way to acquire trade currency. draft well, develop well, get a lot of assets to trade.

 

[Lebanezer]

Did this all start because the argument was "the teams that win the Stanley Cup acquire superstars when they're available?"

 

[Jargon]

Did this all start because the argument was "the teams that win the Stanley Cup acquire superstars when they're available?"

Listen man, good teams draft well and also trade well (BUT ONLY WHEN THE TRADES ARE GOOD) and also they have good players.

 

[SjMilhouse]

Listen man, good teams draft well and also trade well (BUT ONLY WHEN THE TRADES ARE GOOD) and also they have good players.

Good teams score more goals than their opponents and I won't have anyone tell me otherwise.

 

[Jargon]

Good teams score more goals than their opponents and I won't have anyone tell me otherwise.

More goals but they also win more games which is also key.

 

[sharski]

IMO at the end of the day, whether you like it or not it is what it is

 

[Shark Finn]

A bit OT but there's a thread on the trade board where a Flyers fan wants a top-3 pick in this draft for Konecny. And some guy is arguing you need veterans too, so it must be a good move.

 

[STL Shark]

I don't know why everyone wants to be Buffalo so badly.

Being Buffalo would be never spending draft capital on actually improving the lineup around your star player(s). Even Buffalo now is a deeply flawed team because it's comprised of exclusively internally drafted/developed players that were BPA types that are being forced to try and play together when they don't fit.

I think drafting BPA is the correct stance based on when you're making a selection, but oftentimes making a draft selection isn't the best use of a draft pick if you can move it to build a more complete roster. Buffalo trading for Lehner and ROR were both good moves. The issue was they didn't do anything after that to keep moving it forward, but rather hoped and prayed Eichel/ROR would be enough to lift the entire boat.

Yeah, the Florida Panthers definitely win the Cup without trading for Tkachuk. And the Knights would have without trading for Eichel. And the Avs without Toews. And the Bolts without Sergachev. And the Blues without O'Reilly. Definitely none of those teams were built on trades.

They'd have had homegrown stars like Reinhart and Sam Bennett though too... oh wait. Well even with ROR, the Blues would have had homegrown 2C Brayden Schenn... wait, no he doesn't fit there either.

 

[STL Shark]

Did this all start because the argument was "the teams that win the Stanley Cup acquire superstars when they're available?"

It started because I said we should look to move some picks this draft to make the 2025-26 team better and start shifting into trying to establish some winning culture for Mack/Smith.

 

[matt trick]

A bit OT but there's a thread on the trade board where a Flyers fan wants a top-3 pick in this draft for Konecny. And some guy is arguing you need veterans too, so it must be a good move.

On the Konecny thread he were a center, I'd say they can definitely get a top 10 pick. Buffalo might even do top 5 (they wouldn't give up Hagens or Misa, maybe Martone), but he's a wing. He's an excellent player, really drives play on a bad team.

Maybe if they also grabbed Petterson for Byram/Power and Cozens? They'd upgrade their center and RW. If they had it at top 6-10 I could maybe see that in the right situation. Petterson, Thompson, Tuch, Konecny, Kulich, Benson, Greeenway, Zucker, Peterka would be a an interesting top 9- and absolutely massive. Might help Petterson play bigger with Thompson, Greenway, and Tuch running around. Buffalo gives up three high value assets, but somewhat solves their C problem, LHD overage, and gets an elite wing. They'd still need to figure out RHD, and may create a new problem with Petterson, but it's better than what they have now- ton of talent, no guys with playoff resumes, and a completely misconstructed (no Cs, no RHD).

An amusing scenario is the Penguins. Provided their top draft targets were gone and Philly helped the Penguins out of a cap problem as well. But if you add an elite player and clear some cap space for a few quality free agents, they could do a solid send off. Say they sign Chychrun or Orlov and Boeser or Ehlers. I think they're the team most in need of resetting, but you've got Crosby for two more years and he doesn't want to be traded.

Say Hayes+Desharnais+7th overall for Konency
Rangers 1st+Jarry to SJ for DAL 1st

The east is bad enough- and there's enough GM's with warm seats- that I can see some crazy shit happening.

Also on the topic of amusing threads, the 'Who will be #1" on the prospect board has some hilarious back and forth. Conspiracies about Canadian players being destined to own the first round....Jux's post are quite entertaining.

 

[coooldude]

Also on the topic of amusing threads, the 'Who will be #1" on the prospect board has some hilarious back and forth. Conspiracies about Canadian players being destined to own the first round....Jux's post are quite entertaining.

Pavel's crashing out.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Also on the topic of amusing threads, the 'Who will be #1" on the prospect board has some hilarious back and forth. Conspiracies about Canadian players being destined to own the first round....Jux's post are quite entertaining.

Pavel's crashing out.

PB's always crashing out about Hagens, yet can't actually seem to say anything great about him. It's always the "Canadian conspiracy to maintain hockey dominance" or something completely inane instead of the fact that Hagens has not performed to expectations this season and Schaefer and Misa have exceeded them.

I think his crash out has now surpassed the Steve Kourni-whatever crash out in the Martone thread from a couple months ago, where he said "I don't need to watch Hagens anymore because he's going #1 without question".

 

[Star Platinum]

Also on the topic of amusing threads, the 'Who will be #1" on the prospect board has some hilarious back and forth. Conspiracies about Canadian players being destined to own the first round....Jux's post are quite entertaining.

Putting aside for the moment that PB is a ridiculous homer for Hagens, the two things that seem pretty consistent across the scouting services is that Schaefer is pretty comfortably #1 for most of them and that Hagens remains comfortably #2 above Misa. I do think some consideration does need to be given to the fact that Hagens is not dominating NCAA hockey the way Smith and Celebrini did, but by the same token scoring is rather ridiculously easy to come by in junior hockey right now by the elite players. It's difficult to contextualize the difference between the levels of competition.

 

[one2gamble]

The guy comfortably #1 hasn't played in ages. I still find it amusing that he's pulling away

 

[coooldude]

PB's always crashing out about Hagens, yet can't actually seem to say anything great about him. It's always the "Canadian conspiracy to maintain hockey dominance" or something completely inane instead of the fact that Hagens has not performed to expectations this season and Schaefer and Misa have exceeded them.

I think his crash out has now surpassed the Steve Kourni-whatever crash out in the Martone thread from a couple months ago, where he said "I don't need to watch Hagens anymore because he's going #1 without question".

Don't forget that he's a "proven winner at the international level" and whatever stats manipulation is needed to back that up, with a side of "compare their seasons not their ages" debates. It's a tiresome year for discussion compared to last year's ever-moving, ever-changing top 10-ish.

Putting aside for the moment that PB is a ridiculous homer for Hagens, the two things that seem pretty consistent across the scouting services is that Schaefer is pretty comfortably #1 for most of them and that Hagens remains comfortably #2 above Misa. I do think some consideration does need to be given to the fact that Hagens is not dominating NCAA hockey the way Smith and Celebrini did, but by the same token scoring is rather ridiculously easy to come by in junior hockey right now by the elite players. It's difficult to contextualize the difference between the levels of competition.

It's true, as of January, but I'll be curious if Misa keeps up this pace and if Hagens doesn't really send it in the NCAA tourney or the beanpot, where everyone is in June. People say scouts don't move that much, but I think history shows they do, and history also shows that while there may be a clear consensus, it just takes the one team who is off consensus to blow up the draft order.

Current "HFB Sentiment" seems to put Misa in 2, we'll see if scouts lead/follow otherwise.

 

[Star Platinum]

Don't forget that he's a "proven winner at the international level" and whatever stats manipulation is needed to back that up, with a side of "compare their seasons not their ages" debates. It's a tiresome year for discussion compared to last year's ever-moving, ever-changing top 10-ish.

It's true, as of January, but I'll be curious if Misa keeps up this pace and if Hagens doesn't really send it in the NCAA tourney or the beanpot, where everyone is in June. People say scouts don't move that much, but I think history shows they do, and history also shows that while there may be a clear consensus, it just takes the one team who is off consensus to blow up the draft order.

Current "HFB Sentiment" seems to put Misa in 2, we'll see if scouts lead/follow otherwise.

It very well could be that scouts are slower to adapt because they become rigid in who their favorites are. But there is probably an argument to be made that they don't let streaks over a short period change their opinions too drastically.

But at the end of the day, you are correct that their opinions don't matter as much as the guys making the picks. From pick #3 on, the actual 2024 draft looked nothing like what everyone else's consensus was and only time will reveal who was right and wrong.

I will say that since the Sharks have a pretty decently sized chance to end up with Hagens that I would really like to see him play at a high level in the NCAA Tournament, even though a single elimination tournament is not the best representation of a player's skill where one bad game could eliminate you.

 

[coooldude]

I will say that since the Sharks have a pretty decently sized chance to end up with Hagens that I would really like to see him play at a high level in the NCAA Tournament, even though a single elimination tournament is not the best representation of a player's skill where one bad game could eliminate you.

For sure. Jux and I had an exchange earlier in the fall about this exact point... really hoping to see Hagens step up because we're more likely to pick him than Schaefer, but if he's not stepping up, you just hope Martone, or if not then Eklund/Desnoyers/Frondell/McQueen-from-the-dead shows something awesome so that you don't feel shitty about your 3OAish pick like (I'm guessing) some CHI-CBJ-ANA fans do about their 2024 picks.

 

[hohosaregood]

Kinda seems like it's becoming a situation of teams at the top not really being in a position to build from scratch anymore. If a team were to be building from scratch, it's easier to work around Hagens. But the tank teams have their franchise guys and now it's how to best complement those guys and Misa/Schaefer/Martone "slot" in a little easier.

 

[STL Shark]

Don't forget that he's a "proven winner at the international level" and whatever stats manipulation is needed to back that up, with a side of "compare their seasons not their ages" debates. It's a tiresome year for discussion compared to last year's ever-moving, ever-changing top 10-ish.

It's true, as of January, but I'll be curious if Misa keeps up this pace and if Hagens doesn't really send it in the NCAA tourney or the beanpot, where everyone is in June. People say scouts don't move that much, but I think history shows they do, and history also shows that while there may be a clear consensus, it just takes the one team who is off consensus to blow up the draft order.

Current "HFB Sentiment" seems to put Misa in 2, we'll see if scouts lead/follow otherwise.

Will probably depend on team need. Like if it is Chicago, Hagens is probably ahead of Misa because he's a for sure center and a nice compliment to Bedard's offense only style.

If it's the Sharks, Misa is probably ahead of Hagens because he is a C/W tweener that is a bigger body than Hagens and we theoretically have Smith slated as our 2C of the future.

 

[coooldude]

Will probably depend on team need. Like if it is Chicago, Hagens is probably ahead of Misa because he's a for sure center and a nice compliment to Bedard's offense only style.

If it's the Sharks, Misa is probably ahead of Hagens because he is a C/W tweener that is a bigger body than Hagens and we theoretically have Smith slated as our 2C of the future.

For sure, so far I'm with you. But I think the end of season may swing things a lot more than in years past, just given how close 2-4 seem to be, and Misa is really turning on. If Hagens lights it up on the way to a national championship, and Misa sucks and/or someone gets injured, it may be hard to justify one over the other.

 

[Star Platinum]

For sure. Jux and I had an exchange earlier in the fall about this exact point... really hoping to see Hagens step up because we're more likely to pick him than Schaefer, but if he's not stepping up, you just hope Martone, or if not then Eklund/Desnoyers/Frondell/McQueen-from-the-dead shows something awesome so that you don't feel shitty about your 3OAish pick like (I'm guessing) some CHI-CBJ-ANA fans do about their 2024 picks.

I'm not gonna feel shitty about a Top 3 pick no matter what, though for obvious reasons I'm hoping for #1. If we end up with a forward at 2/3, we will likely have a very strong forward group at the NHL level in 3 years.

 

[gaucholoco3]

I'm not gonna feel shitty about a Top 3 pick no matter what, though for obvious reasons I'm hoping for #1. If we end up with a forward at 2/3, we will likely have a very strong forward group at the NHL level in 3 years.

Yeah this draft lottery is not as important for the Sharks as last years.

 

[matt trick]

Granted he's 8 months younger than Smith in his season of college hockey, but to produce .5 PPG less with the same elite- and year older- linemates seems concerning. WJC performance was good but not sure I put a whole lot of stock in playing with your college line including two 19 year olds, and Buium or Hutson. CHL hockey is fun, but its like a distant relatives to the NHL, whereas college and AHL feel like legitimate feeder leagues in terms of style/physical play/player size. Appreciate that makes it really hard to project different leagues.

Not surprisingly HF overreacts to hot streaks (and everything!) but I do think the public scout takes tend to be around 1-2 months behind HF, and media filtering of those messages might be another month. I think Misa will be the #2 guy, and I really, really hope Hagens picks it up, as there's probably a 50% chance we'll be picking third.

If you told me Hagens would be Logan Cooley, I'd definitely take that happily.

 

[Juxtaposer]

The guy comfortably #1 hasn't played in ages. I still find it amusing that he's pulling away

If Misa keeps up his recent play, I think he'll make it a legitimate debate. He's been so, so good since the WJC snub.

Kinda seems like it's becoming a situation of teams at the top not really being in a position to build from scratch anymore. If a team were to be building from scratch, it's easier to work around Hagens. But the tank teams have their franchise guys and now it's how to best complement those guys and Misa/Schaefer/Martone "slot" in a little easier.

So while I've been a "Misa at #2" proponent for a few months now because of fit, but at this point I just think Misa is better than Hagens regardless of fit.

 

[gaucholoco3]

If Misa keeps up his recent play, I think he'll make it a legitimate debate. He's been so, so good since the WJC snub.


So while I've been a "Misa at #2" proponent for a few months now because of fit, but at this point I just think Misa is better than Hagens regardless of fit.

I think the bigger question is Hagens vs Martone. I agree that Misa has separated himself from the other two.