2025 NHL Draft: Lose a ton for Porter Martone

[Gecklund]

What awful decisions has Blake made? Turcotte looks like a bad pick in hindsight but a lot of that is due to his multiple concussions.

Dubois trade, most of his FA signings, other Dubois trade, Fiala trade. Probably others but that’s just off the top of my head.

 

[Hodge]

Dubois trade, most of his FA signings, other Dubois trade, Fiala trade. Probably others but that’s just off the top of my head.

Danault was one of the best UFA signings in recent history. Selke-caliber 2C for $5.5M/yr is unreal value in free agency.

Nothing of value was lost in the first Dubois trade and Blake was reasonable enough to admit it wasn't working out and got out of the contract without attaching sweeteners or retaining salary. Lesser GMs would have doubled down.

Fiala has averaged a point per game and been LA's leading scorer since the trade.

 

[Gecklund]

Danault was one of the best UFA signings in recent history. Selke-caliber 2C for $5.5M/yr is unreal value in free agency.

Nothing of value was lost in the first Dubois trade and Blake was reasonable enough to admit it wasn't working out and got out of the contract without attaching sweeteners or retaining salary. Lesser GMs would have doubled down.

Fiala has averaged a point per game and been LA's leading scorer since the trade.

Vilardi scored 36 in 47 games last year. Iafallo 27 in 82. Dubois only scored 40. That’s not including Kupari who probably won’t be anything and the 2nd. They ended up moving Vilardi, Iafallo, Kupari, and a 2nd for Darcy Kuemper who is completely washed at this point. That’s f***ing terrible.

Faber is already a top 4 RHD and is 21 and should comfortably be a top pair RHD for years to come. I’d take that alone over a non elite winger every day of the week. This isn’t even including the 19th overall pick that LA sent in addition to Faber.

Danault is fine, but they just signed Edmundson who sucks to a 4 year deal and Foegele who was propped up by EDM to a 3 year deal.

 

[Hodge]

Vilardi scored 36 in 47 games last year. Iafallo 27 in 82. Dubois only scored 40. That’s not including Kupari who probably won’t be anything and the 2nd. They ended up moving Vilardi, Iafallo, Kupari, and a 2nd for Darcy Kuemper who is completely washed at this point. That’s f***ing terrible.

Faber is already a top 4 RHD and is 21 and should comfortably be a top pair RHD for years to come. I’d take that alone over a non elite winger every day of the week. This isn’t even including the 19th overall pick that LA sent in addition to Faber.

Danault is fine, but they just signed Edmundson who sucks to a 4 year deal and Foegele who was propped up by EDM to a 3 year deal.

Vilardi is damaged goods and will probably never play a full season. Iafallo is an overpaid 4th liner included in the trade as a cap dump. A 2nd round pick is a 2nd round pick. Absolutely worth trading those pieces for a 25 year old top six center. It didn't work out so Blake quickly dealt with the issue without losing more assets or retaining money.

Faber was never going to sign with the Kings. He would have played another season at UMN and just signed with the Wild anyway due to the Kings crowded depth chart at RD. Fiala is 15th in scoring among wingers over the last 3 seasons despite playing on defensive teams without an elite center.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Vilardi is damaged goods and will probably never play a full season. Iafallo is an overpaid 4th liner included in the trade as a cap dump. A 2nd round pick is a 2nd round pick. Absolutely worth trading those pieces for a 25 year old top six center. It didn't work out so Blake quickly dealt with the issue without losing more assets or retaining money.

Faber was never going to sign with the Kings. He would have played another season at UMN and just signed with the Wild anyway due to the Kings crowded depth chart at RD. Fiala is 15th in scoring among wingers over the last 3 seasons despite playing on defensive teams without an elite center.

I don’t get at all why you keep stumping for the Kings and Blake. Absolutely zero Kings fans are happy with how the team is being run. All Blake did was build a team that’s gonna barely miss the playoffs or lose in the first round for the next three years and then fade into obscurity. That’s a team I feel confident won’t touch contention in the next ten years.

 

[Hodge]

I don’t get at all why you keep stumping for the Kings and Blake. Absolutely zero Kings fans are happy with how the team is being run. All Blake did was build a team that’s gonna barely miss the playoffs or lose in the first round for the next three years and then fade into obscurity. That’s a team I feel confident won’t touch contention in the next ten years.

He built a team that finished bottom 5 three straight seasons into a team that has now made the playoffs three straight seasons purely through smart trades and signings. Fiala and Gavrikov were big swings that worked out. PLD didn't so he quickly got rid of him instead of doubling down.

The only thing missing in LA is truly elite talent and they have two guys in house who could realistically be the answer. Byfield and Clarke looked phenomenal at times last season. If they develop into stars, which could happen as soon as this season, the Kings will be legitimate contenders.

 

[Juxtaposer]

He built a team that finished bottom 5 three straight seasons into a team that has now made the playoffs three straight seasons purely through smart trades and signings. Fiala and Gavrikov were big swings that worked out. PLD didn't so he quickly got rid of him instead of doubling down.

The only thing missing in LA is truly elite talent and they have two guys in house who could realistically be the answer. Byfield and Clarke looked phenomenal at times last season. If they develop into stars, which could happen as soon as this season, the Kings will be legitimate contenders.

If your goal is to complete for the playoffs every year and get booted in the first round, then sure, they’re doing great.

I like Byfield but he isn’t Anze Kopitar. I like Clarke but he’s not Drew Doughty. As soon as Doughty is no longer a top pairing defenseman, that team is basically useless.

If the Sharks look like the Kings do now in five years, I would consider the rebuild a horrible failure and call for Grier to be fired.

 

[Hodge]

If your goal is to complete for the playoffs every year and get booted in the first round, then sure, they’re doing great.

I like Byfield but he isn’t Anze Kopitar. I like Clarke but he’s not Drew Doughty. As soon as Doughty is no longer a top pairing defenseman, that team is basically useless.

If the Sharks look like the Kings do now in five years, I would consider the rebuild a horrible failure and call for Grier to be fired.

This is just the reality for a rebuilding team that isn't lucky enough to win the 1st overall lottery in a year with a franchise talent available. It's the same issue Yzerman is dealing with in Detroit, only Blake has shown far better results (in fairness he also inherited a far better roster).

Fans are frustrated because they're not seeing the big picture and recognizing how much long-term flexibility these teams have. LA has something like $25 million in cap space next offseason with only Gavrikov to re-sign/replace. They can free up even more money by moving guys without trade protection like Moore and Anderson. If Draisaitl or Marner hits free agency I'm sure they'll be high on the list of suitors. If they want to acquire and extend Kaprizov, they'll have the assets and cap space to do it.

People act like Blake has permanently doomed the Kings when the opposite is true. Blake has brought the Kings back to respectability and perennial playoff appearances without mortgaging their long-term future. This isn't the final form of the team. He swung and missed on PLD but there's no doubt Blake will be in on any star who becomes available over the next few years. Combined with Byfield and Clarke's ascendancy, that should offset Kopitar and Doughty's age-related decline.

 

[Juxtaposer]

This is just the reality for a rebuilding team that isn't lucky enough to win the 1st overall lottery in a year with a franchise talent available. It's the same issue Yzerman is dealing with in Detroit, only Blake has shown far better results (in fairness he also inherited a far better roster).

Fans are frustrated because they're not seeing the big picture and recognizing how much long-term flexibility these teams have. LA has something like $25 million in cap space next offseason with only Gavrikov to re-sign/replace. They can free up even more money by moving guys without trade protection like Moore and Anderson. If Draisaitl or Marner hits free agency I'm sure they'll be high on the list of suitors. If they want to acquire and extend Kaprizov, they'll have the assets and cap space to do it.

People act like Blake has permanently doomed the Kings when the opposite is true. Blake has brought the Kings back to respectability and perennial playoff appearances without mortgaging their long-term future. This isn't the final form of the team. He swung and missed on PLD but there's no doubt Blake will be in on any star who becomes available over the next few years. Combined with Byfield and Clarke's ascendancy, that should offset Kopitar and Doughty's age-related decline.

It’s not just a matter of hoping that Byfield and Clarke can be long-term replacements for Kopitar and Doughty (which I highly doubt), it’s that the Kings haven’t won a playoff round in literally ten years, and that’s with Kopitar and Doughty in their primes. Do you realize they literally have not won a single playoff round since 2014? They have seven whole playoff game wins in that time. The Sharks, despite having missed the playoffs for the last five years, have won six playoff ROUNDS in that same span.

You can call that “respectable” if you want in the sense that they aren’t the Buffalo Sabres. But I’ll call it what it is: perpetual mediocrity with no hope for escaping.

The Kings have a bunch of cap space because they have zero genuinely great players. I understand that it absolutely takes lucking into a franchise player at 1st overall to build a real contender without getting really creative. But saying “the Kings rebuild is fantastic because Clarke and Byfield are going to be Doughty and Kopitar and they’ll surely sign a star player because they have cap space” doesn’t seem like a grounded take. Their prospect pool outside of Clarke (who is the same age as Eklund and shouldn’t be considered a prospect anymore) and Greentree (who is very boom bust) doesn’t have anyone who projects to be an impact player, and their roster is littered with old guys on the decline.

Like I said, the goal is to win the Stanley Cup. And failing that, the goal is to win a bunch of playoff rounds. The goal is not to squeak into the playoffs every other year and maybe win a game or two.

 

[Hodge]

It’s not just a matter of hoping that Byfield and Clarke can be long-term replacements for Kopitar and Doughty (which I highly doubt), it’s that the Kings haven’t won a playoff round in literally ten years, and that’s with Kopitar and Doughty in their primes. Do you realize they literally have not won a single playoff round since 2014? They have seven whole playoff game wins in that time. The Sharks, despite having missed the playoffs for the last five years, have won six playoff ROUNDS in that same span.

You can call that “respectable” if you want in the sense that they aren’t the Buffalo Sabres. But I’ll call it what it is: perpetual mediocrity with no hope for escaping.

The Kings have a bunch of cap space because they have zero genuinely great players. I understand that it absolutely takes lucking into a franchise player at 1st overall to build a real contender without getting really creative. But saying “the Kings rebuild is fantastic because Clarke and Byfield are going to be Doughty and Kopitar and they’ll surely sign a star player because they have cap space” doesn’t seem like a grounded take. Their prospect pool outside of Clarke (who is the same age as Eklund and shouldn’t be considered a prospect anymore) and Greentree (who is very boom bust) doesn’t have anyone who projects to be an impact player, and their roster is littered with old guys on the decline.

Like I said, the goal is to win the Stanley Cup. And failing that, the goal is to win a bunch of playoff rounds. The goal is not to squeak into the playoffs every other year and maybe win a game or two.

Nobody is claiming their 2015-2021 run was respectable but they've now made the playoffs in three straight seasons and look like a solid bet to qualify again in 2025. I agree this is not some great accomplishment in a league in which literally half the teams make the playoffs but where we fundamentally disagree is on the "no hope of escape" point.

They're not bogged down by bad long-term contracts, they have all their high picks going forward along with some attractive prospects and play in one of the most desirable NHL cities. This means they're in a position to level up by acquiring any star who becomes available on the trade or free agent markets. That was clearly the thinking behind the Fiala and Dubois trades. One has worked out great, the other not so much but they barely gave up anything in the first place and dumped the contract without retention so the powder is dry again for the next big swing.

I never said the Kings rebuild was fantastic. Turcotte looks like a big miss although injuries are certainly a part of that. PLD trade was a blunder in hindsight but fans who have a personal vendetta against that player exaggerate how much it really hurt the Kings. Arguably they should have tried harder to acquire Jack Eichel but you can say that about almost half the league. Rebuilds take a long time when you don't have the 1st overall franchise player cheat code. You're judging the current team as if it's the finished product and they're in the peak of their contention window when that's obviously not the case.

 

[hotcabbagesoup]

It’s not just a matter of hoping that Byfield and Clarke can be long-term replacements for Kopitar and Doughty (which I highly doubt), it’s that the Kings haven’t won a playoff round in literally ten years, and that’s with Kopitar and Doughty in their primes. Do you realize they literally have not won a single playoff round since 2014? They have seven whole playoff game wins in that time. The Sharks, despite having missed the playoffs for the last five years, have won six playoff ROUNDS in that same span.

You can call that “respectable” if you want in the sense that they aren’t the Buffalo Sabres. But I’ll call it what it is: perpetual mediocrity with no hope for escaping.

The Kings have a bunch of cap space because they have zero genuinely great players. I understand that it absolutely takes lucking into a franchise player at 1st overall to build a real contender without getting really creative. But saying “the Kings rebuild is fantastic because Clarke and Byfield are going to be Doughty and Kopitar and they’ll surely sign a star player because they have cap space” doesn’t seem like a grounded take. Their prospect pool outside of Clarke (who is the same age as Eklund and shouldn’t be considered a prospect anymore) and Greentree (who is very boom bust) doesn’t have anyone who projects to be an impact player, and their roster is littered with old guys on the decline.

Like I said, the goal is to win the Stanley Cup. And failing that, the goal is to win a bunch of playoff rounds. The goal is not to squeak into the playoffs every other year and maybe win a game or two.

I didnt believe you when you said the Kings havent made it out of the first round since 2014 so I checked and it's true and it brought a smile to my face lol.

I also find it funny that what they're doing now is all the Kings organization needs to do to rake in the dough, sell out every night, jersey sales galore. They're like the Maple Leafs West. Heck, their minor league team is in Ontario too!

 

[Juxtaposer]

Nobody is claiming their 2015-2021 run was respectable but they've now made the playoffs in three straight seasons and look like a solid bet to qualify again in 2025. I agree this is not some great accomplishment in a league in which literally half the teams make the playoffs but where we fundamentally disagree is on the "no hope of escape" point.

They're not bogged down by bad long-term contracts, they have all their high picks going forward along with some attractive prospects and play in one of the most desirable NHL cities. This means they're in a position to level up by acquiring any star who becomes available on the trade or free agent markets. That was clearly the thinking behind the Fiala and Dubois trades. One has worked out great, the other not so much but they barely gave up anything in the first place and dumped the contract without retention so the powder is dry again for the next big swing.

I never said the Kings rebuild was fantastic. Turcotte looks like a big miss although injuries are certainly a part of that. PLD trade was a blunder in hindsight but fans who have a personal vendetta against that player exaggerate how much it really hurt the Kings. Arguably they should have tried harder to acquire Jack Eichel but you can say that about almost half the league. Rebuilds take a long time when you don't have the 1st overall franchise player cheat code. You're judging the current team as if it's the finished product and they're in the peak of their contention window when that's obviously not the case.

I guess the fundamental disagreement we have is that you trust Blake to improve on what’s already in place to turn them into an contender and I don’t.

If I’m Leon Draisaitl, am I interested in going to a team that I just defeated in the first round for four straight years? If I’m Mitch Marner, am I interested in going to a team that also can’t get out of the first round like the Leafs? I’ll give you Kaprisov as a possibility, but it would take major assets to land him (Greentree+1st at least), and then what? If you don’t land him, then what?

Look at that roster, and the only now-and-future pieces I see are Byfield, Clarke, Fiala, Kempe, Anderson, and maybe Spence. Is that the core of a team who is just a Kaprisov away from contention? I strongly, strongly disagree. You say I can’t judge the current LA Kings as a finished product, but I say that you can’t judge the Kings based on an assumption that they’ll acquire a star player in UFA.

This is a super interesting conversation btw, I do genuinely enjoy back-and-forths like this.

 

[Hodge]

I guess the fundamental disagreement we have is that you trust Blake to improve on what’s already in place to turn them into an contender and I don’t.

If I’m Leon Draisaitl, am I interested in going to a team that I just defeated in the first round for four straight years? If I’m Mitch Marner, am I interested in going to a team that also can’t get out of the first round like the Leafs? I’ll give you Kaprisov as a possibility, but it would take major assets to land him (Greentree+1st at least), and then what? If you don’t land him, then what?

Look at that roster, and the only now-and-future pieces I see are Byfield, Clarke, Fiala, Kempe, Anderson, and maybe Spence. Is that the core of a team who is just a Kaprisov away from contention? I strongly, strongly disagree. You say I can’t judge the current LA Kings as a finished product, but I say that you can’t judge the Kings based on an assumption that they’ll acquire a star player in UFA.

This is a super interesting conversation btw, I do genuinely enjoy back-and-forths like this.

There aren’t many teams more competitive than LA that will have the cap space to offer Draisaitl and Marner what they want. Carolina is the only team that comes to mind but it would be against their MO to chase a free agent like that and besides if you’re a millionaire athlete would you rather live in Manhattan Beach or the North Carolina research triangle? I guess Vegas might be an option if they let Theodore walk without a replacement and trade some guys.

Certainly no guarantee the Kings land a star within the next year but I bet they’ll keep trying. If it doesn’t happen, and if Byfield and Clarke fail to live up to their potential, they’ll also be in a good position to rebuild the rebuild when Kopitar comes off the books in 2 years. Of course it would suck to be in that spot but at least they won't be tethered to untradeable contracts. With both Blake and Yzerman, my take is that they’ve made some mistakes but they've also avoided long-term commitments to guys in their 30s and maintained a stable of picks and prospects they can use to acquire the right player while consistently improving in the standings.

 

[coooldude]

Nice back and forth, y'all.

Having not followed closely, I was of the mind that "Blake seems unpopular and like he's f'ing it up" but it might be a bit more nuanced, and it's nice to see two POV's that disagree but understand the other side.

I, for one, would probably be a bit disgruntled as a Kings fan but hopeful that they can add pieces as Hodge is proposing.

To extend this to other rebuilds...

I'd be an optimistic Wings fan but wondering how we're going to get the star(s) at the top of the lineup that are currently missing. It feels a bit like the Wild, the never-ending build - will they ever get out of middle-standings purgatory?

I'd be an incredulous/hopeful Ducks fan and incredulous/resigned Sabres/Sens fan (how can we still suck with all this talent, but one is optimistic and one is nihilistic).

I'd be extremely stoked as a Devils or Canucks fan, similar-feeling rebuilds.

As a Leafs fan, I'd be pretty sad that the rebuild feels like it hasn't been successful and that we need to retool by jettisoning Tavares and Marner and trying to bolster the D corps. I am not sure I'd buy that our management could do it.

As a Habs fan, I'd be clinically insane. But the sane part of me would think, maybe we're building a great team, maybe I'm overvaluing my prospects.

As an Avs fan, I'm stoked, the window's still open, although they seem to suck at drafting overall beyond the mega-stars. As an Oilers fan, I don't know what to think. Still have another bite at it this year, but f*** Stan Bowman.

Those are just a sample of our rebuild's potential emotional paths.

 

[landshark]

Beat L.A.!! Beat L.A.!! Beat L.A.!!

 

[Hodge]

Nice back and forth, y'all.

Having not followed closely, I was of the mind that "Blake seems unpopular and like he's f'ing it up" but it might be a bit more nuanced, and it's nice to see two POV's that disagree but understand the other side.

I, for one, would probably be a bit disgruntled as a Kings fan but hopeful that they can add pieces as Hodge is proposing.

To extend this to other rebuilds...

I'd be an optimistic Wings fan but wondering how we're going to get the star(s) at the top of the lineup that are currently missing. It feels a bit like the Wild, the never-ending build - will they ever get out of middle-standings purgatory?

I'd be an incredulous/hopeful Ducks fan and incredulous/resigned Sabres/Sens fan (how can we still suck with all this talent, but one is optimistic and one is nihilistic).

I'd be extremely stoked as a Devils or Canucks fan, similar-feeling rebuilds.

As a Leafs fan, I'd be pretty sad that the rebuild feels like it hasn't been successful and that we need to retool by jettisoning Tavares and Marner and trying to bolster the D corps. I am not sure I'd buy that our management could do it.

As a Habs fan, I'd be clinically insane. But the sane part of me would think, maybe we're building a great team, maybe I'm overvaluing my prospects.

As an Avs fan, I'm stoked, the window's still open, although they seem to suck at drafting overall beyond the mega-stars. As an Oilers fan, I don't know what to think. Still have another bite at it this year, but f*** Stan Bowman.

Those are just a sample of our rebuild's potential emotional paths.

I'd actually be pretty negative if I was a Canucks fan. I sort of see them as the anti-Kings. They lucked out and drafted two superstars with picks from which you rarely get superstars plus JT Miller became a 100 point player out of nowhere. But with Petey making 11.5 now and Hughes and Demko due for big raises soon, the Canucks have essentially no path to further improvement. Considering how much draft capital and long-term cap penalties via the OEL buyout they poured into this past season, they may have already blown their best chance at winning a Cup in the Petey/Hughes era. Doesn't look like there's any help coming from the system either which would be the main source of hope for a team in this position (like when we injected Couture into the lineup). Vancouver's at risk of becoming something like what the Blues currently are, minus having won the Cup.

 

[DG93]

I'd actually be pretty negative if I was a Canucks fan. I sort of see them as the anti-Kings. They lucked out and drafted two superstars with picks from which you rarely get superstars plus JT Miller became a 100 point player out of nowhere. But with Petey making 11.5 now and Hughes and Demko due for big raises soon, the Canucks have essentially no path to further improvement. Considering how much draft capital and long-term cap penalties via the OEL buyout they poured into this past season, they may have already blown their best chance at winning a Cup in the Petey/Hughes era. Doesn't look like there's any help coming from the system either which would be the main source of hope for a team in this position (like when we injected Couture into the lineup). Vancouver's at risk of becoming something like what the Blues currently are, minus having won the Cup.

I agree with this. Plus they've given out some questionable contracts (hello Connor Garland) + paid a lot for anticipated improvement (Joshua, Hronek) and who knows if that will happen. Adding DeBrusk was definitely a good move.

 

[LadyStanley]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1820505428159287714

 

[timorous me]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1820505428159287714

Do it!!!!!

 

[Alaskanice]

Stuff such as that rarely happen but it would be wild to have Our William’s brother in teal.

 

[Patty Ice]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1820505428159287714

While it would be cool to have a brother duo and Eklund would be decent value in the projected VGK range (15-25), I think the Sharks should look to add their blue chip goaltender prospect with Joshua Ravensbergen or Gabriel D'Aigle. Like any goalie though, they are hard to get an exact read on. They could play themselves right before that range or fall out of the first altogether.

It should be noted this draft class has some all time goalie names:

The aforementioned Ravensbergen and D'Aigle
Mans Goos
Massimo Urbani
Jester Rossi
Koen Cleaver
William Forsberg (anything Forsberg I relate to world class)
Love Harenstam

 

[LadyStanley]

Historically, the Sharks usually wait until middle rounds to pick a goalie. I don't know there are any goalie prospects worth gambling on high/1st round pick.

 

[Patty Ice]

Historically, the Sharks usually wait until middle rounds to pick a goalie. I don't know there are any goalie prospects worth gambling on high/1st round pick.

And how has that been working out for them?

 

[one2gamble]

And how has that been working out for them?

about the same as everyone else

 

[Patty Ice]

about the same as everyone else

Remind me of the last homegrown goaltender they've drafted of note.