AHL: 2025-2026 WBS Penguins (Wheeling too, I guess)

[Koivunsons]

I’d say Brunicke, Ilyin, Zonnon and Murashov improved their stocks, McGroarty, Broz and Howe (and most of the others) didn’t hurt their stocks and Koivunen and Hayes were pretty disappointing.

Pickering tough to judge due to injuries but likely falls in that middle group.

Some of our worst players were vets like Koppanen and Aho and they’re f***ing gone. RHP pretty much invisible outside of that game 5 against Springfield.

All-in-all it was a decent run for a pretty young team.

Yeah Illyin and Zonnon coming over and producing was good.

Still not sold on Murashov being this high upside piece.

 

[Darren McCord]

Yeah Illyin and Zonnon coming over and producing was good.

Still not sold on Murashov being this high upside piece.

Murashov may not have proved he will be some high end starter. But he continued to play at a level of a top AHL goalie throughout the playoffs as a 21 year old rookie.

He looks like he will be an nhl goalie but goalies are weird. He needs to get time in the nhl next year before really knowing anything.

 

[TojoP]

I would move Zonnon up if im Kirk. Klassen is a great 3rd line center, but imo it asking too much of him to be top 6.

Never moving up Zonnon or really even touching the lines was surprising. Outside of game 5 against Springfield, the Pens struggled to create offense much of the last 2 series. There is limited offensive talent there, but you'd think Zonnon might have provided a spark with more skilled linemates.

 

[Koivunsons]

Murashov may not have proved he will be some high end starter. But he continued to play at a level of a top AHL goalie throughout the playoffs as a 21 year old rookie.

He looks like he will be an nhl goalie but goalies are weird. He needs to get time in the nhl next year before really knowing anything.

I think the pens media train on Murashov is honestly insane. He was *fine* in the playoffs, but he probably was a top 3 reason we lost this series.

 

[TojoP]

Murashov may not have proved he will be some high end starter. But he continued to play at a level of a top AHL goalie throughout the playoffs as a 21 year old rookie.

He looks like he will be an nhl goalie but goalies are weird. He needs to get time in the nhl next year before really knowing anything.

They'll probably plan to split starts again and see if either goalie pulls away. That will be a good way to ease Murashov in.

Goalies being what they are though, I'd keep Silovs on a one year deal and see what Blomqvist does with a clearer path to more starts.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I think the pens media train on Murashov is honestly insane. He was *fine* in the playoffs, but he probably was a top 3 reason we lost this series.

I think some people are trying to force the narrative that he's another Fleury.

He's charismatic and athletic, which is a stark contrast to the egotistical Jarry and the robotic Murray.

So they're overlooking Murashov's flaws and trying to create something that isn't there.

He looks like an NHL goalie, but he looks more like Silovs than Fleury.

 

[metalan2]

The McGroarty part is wrong. He was IMO their best forward.

Yea, maybe you're right. It's hard to pay attention on a high school broadcast.

 

[plaidchuck]

I mean around 2 GAA and 930 save pct and you are god incarnate as a goalie in today’s nhl. Not saying that will happen but if he could translate that performance in some way to the nhl that will be good. Remember, being “fine” as a goalie gets you cups now.

I admit it’s hard for me to judge goaltending now when my prime viewing years had even Ryan Miller sporting around .920 on some god awful teams

 

[Andy99]

 

[Empoleon8771]

Of course this place is throwing shit at Murashov in a game where the Penguins lost 2-1 in OT.

Here were the scores in the games in this series:

2-4
1-2
5-3
4-3
1-5
1-2

Yet somehow Murashov was a huge reason they lost? Not the fact that they scored 1 goal in 3 of 6 games in the series?

People here will just try to push their narratives regardless of reality. Team can’t score? Make it about Murashov being “anointed the next Fleury” and blaming him for the series loss. I’m not even commenting on how good Murashov was in the series, but zero teams are winning a series when they scored 1 goal in half of the games in a series. He finished the playoffs with a .931 save%, trying to say he was just “fine” is just trolling.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Of course this place is throwing shit at Murashov in a game where the Penguins lost 2-1 in OT.

Here were the scores in the games in this series:

2-4
1-2
5-3
4-3
1-5
1-2

Yet somehow Murashov was a huge reason they lost? Not the fact that they scored 1 goal in 3 of 6 games in the series?

People here will just try to push their narratives regardless of reality. Team can’t score? Make it about Murashov being “anointed the next Fleury” and blaming him for the series loss. I’m not even commenting on how good Murashov was in the series, but zero teams are winning a series when they scored 1 goal in half of the games in a series.

He had at least two massive blunders that proved to be extraordinarily costly.

I think some people, including me, are just pushing back on this notion that he is ready to be the No. 1 goalie. There were frequent conversations on here and elsewhere that he should be the goalie for the NHL playoffs instead of Silovs or Skinner.

The reality is he's a talented but flawed goaltender who still has a lot of growing to do. The next step is for him to show what he can do at the NHL level, but I think some fans need to tap the brakes.

 

[Empoleon8771]

IMO my big takeaways from the bit of the playoffs I saw were:

1. Brunicke, Murashov, Zonnon and McGroarty are 100% NHLers in the future. Zonnon is the only one that particularly needs more AHL time. I have questions with McGroarty’s upside but he’s for sure a bottom-6er at worst.
2. Koivunen is a AAAA player that didn’t nearly play at a level he should have played at. I don’t see any reason he should be in the Penguins organization next year.
3. Hayes was especially disappointing as well, especially for a guy people expect to be a 4th liner in the NHL this year. He wasn’t any better than Howe, but Howe is like 4 years younger than him. Broz was in a similar boat, he had 1 terrific game but was super quiet outside of that 1 game.
4. WBS’ vets sucked and it’s shocking how bad they were.

He had at least two massive blunders that proved to be extraordinarily costly.

I think some people, including me, are just pushing back on this notion that he is ready to be the No. 1 goalie. There were frequent conversations on here and elsewhere that he should be the goalie for the NHL playoffs instead of Silovs or Skinner.

The reality is he's a talented but flawed goaltender who still has a lot of growing to do. The next step is for him to show what he can do at the NHL level, but I think some fans need to tap the breaks.

And none of that matters if a team only scores 1 goal in half of the games.

You’re accusing people of needing to “tap the breaks” while you’re solely focusing on his miscues to diminish him. You’re doing the same thing that you’re accusing other people of doing, just in the opposite direction. Him giving up leaky goals (which was a problem in both the AHL and NHL) means absolutely nothing if he’s at a .930 save%.

It’s one thing if his results are middling to poor when he’s giving up those goals. But he’s putting up terrific numbers despite those leaky goals. You’re seriously criticizing him for having a .930 save% rather than a .960 save% by criticizing him for giving up weak goals.

 

[PensFutures]

Never moving up Zonnon or really even touching the lines was surprising. Outside of game 5 against Springfield, the Pens struggled to create offense much of the last 2 series. There is limited offensive talent there, but you'd think Zonnon might have provided a spark with more skilled linemates.

I also didn't like the Koi/Ilyin and Howe/McG wing pairings, felt like they were too similar in terms of style.

 

[Koivunsons]

Of course this place is throwing shit at Murashov in a game where the Penguins lost 2-1 in OT.

Here were the scores in the games in this series:

2-4
1-2
5-3
4-3
1-5
1-2

Yet somehow Murashov was a huge reason they lost? Not the fact that they scored 1 goal in 3 of 6 games in the series?

People here will just try to push their narratives regardless of reality. Team can’t score? Make it about Murashov being “anointed the next Fleury” and blaming him for the series loss. I’m not even commenting on how good Murashov was in the series, but zero teams are winning a series when they scored 1 goal in half of the games in a series. He finished the playoffs with a .931 save%, trying to say he was just “fine” is just trolling.

Stat watching. He was largely a disaster this series outside of tonight.

 

[Darren McCord]

Stat watching. He was largely a disaster this series outside of tonight.

Meh he kept them in game 2 the whole time and they couldn’t score then either. Defense was awful in the series as well. He faced a lot of rubber

 

[Koivunsons]

Meh he kept them in game 2 the whole time and they couldn’t score then either. Defense was awful in the series as well. He faced a lot of rubber

Murashov himself would be the first to criticize imo.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

And none of that matters if a team only scores 1 goal in half of the games.

You’re accusing people of needing to “tap the breaks” while you’re solely focusing on his miscues to diminish him. You’re doing the same thing that you’re accusing other people of doing, just in the opposite direction. Him giving up leaky goals (which was a problem in both the AHL and NHL) means absolutely nothing if he’s at a .930 save%.

It’s one thing if his results are middling to poor when he’s giving up those goals. But he’s putting up terrific numbers despite those leaky goals. You’re seriously criticizing him for having a .930 save% rather than a .960 save% by criticizing him for giving up weak goals.

Pointing out that Murashov had a couple of costly blunders and that he isn't as advanced as some people would like to believe is not putting the entire series on his shoulders.

As I mentioned earlier, losing three of the top six defensemen is a hard obstacle to overcome. There were very few coaching adjustments, especially as Toronto repeatedly tried to stymie the flow of the game. Special teams were atrocious throughout the playoffs.

Because of those factors, I'm evaluating Murashov and every other prospect based on what kind of contributor they can be in the NHL, not the end result of the series. Murashov can't control whether his teammates score on the power play. But he can control his composure, his reads, and what he does with rebounds, all of which he had issues with throughout the postseason (and has had an issue with all season).

 

[Empoleon8771]

Stat watching. He was largely a disaster this series outside of tonight.

Stat watching is 100% valid for goalies. This isn’t at all a situation like skaters who can get points despite playing bad or get shut out despite playing great. A .930 save% is a .930 save%. Whether he gives up 2 goals on breakaways or 2 goals on bloop shots from center ice means nothing if he’s stopping 28/30 shots. Because if you’re stopping 28/30 shots, you’re very likely stealing some should-be goals over the game.

 

[Koivunsons]

Stat watching is 100% valid for goalies. This isn’t at all a situation like skaters who can get points despite playing bad or get shut out despite playing great. A .930 save% is a .930 save%. Whether he gives up 2 goals on breakaways or 2 goals on bloop shots from center ice means nothing if he’s stopping 28/30 shots. Because if you’re stopping 28/30 shots, you’re very likely stealing some should-be goals over the game.

For someone that ascribes to stat models, this argument makes no sense at all.

All shots are not equal.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Pointing out that Murashov had a couple of costly blunders and that he isn't as advanced as some people would like to believe is not putting the entire series on his shoulders.

As I mentioned earlier, losing three of the top six defensemen is a hard obstacle to overcome. There were very few coaching adjustments, especially as Toronto repeatedly tried to stymie the flow of the game. Special teams were atrocious throughout the playoffs.

Because of those factors, I'm evaluating Murashov and every other prospect based on what kind of contributor they can be in the NHL, not the end result of the series. Murashov can't control whether his teammates score on the power play. But he can control his composure, his reads, and what he does with rebounds, all of which he had issues with throughout the postseason (and has had an issue with all season).

Again, you’re complaining about Murashov having a .930 save% instead of having a .960 save%. Focusing on Murashov’s weak areas as he’s actively putting up great results is purely nitpicking and agenda pushing. This is more about you wanting to argue against people who overrate Murashov than you doing a fair analysis of Murashov.

For someone that ascribes to stat models, this argument makes no sense at all.

All shots are not equal.

So do you seriously think WBS was playing well defensively in the playoffs? And Murashov was just facing a bunch of low danger shots against and just gave up weak goals?

Yes, all shots are not equal. No, the Penguins were not playing well defensively in front of Murashov at all. They were giving up a ton of high quality chances he was stopping.

This isn’t a “Brian Elliott on St. Louis” situation where the team played so well defensively that it caused a mediocre Elliott to finish the year with a .941 save%. The team stunk defensively in front of Murashov, in large part due to how depleted their defense was. Him having a .930 save% in the playoffs despite giving up a fair amount of bad goals just shows how much he was bailing the team out on those high danger chances.

 

[Koivunsons]

Again, you’re complaining about Murashov having a .930 save% instead of having a .960 save%. Focusing on Murashov’s weak areas as he’s actively putting up great results is purely nitpicking and agenda pushing. This is more about you wanting to argue against people who overrate Murashov than you doing a fair analysis of Murashov.



So do you seriously think WBS was playing well defensively in the playoffs? And Murashov was just facing a bunch of low danger shots against and just gave up weak goals?

Yes, all shots are not equal. No, the Penguins were not playing well defensively in front of Murashov at all. They were giving up a ton of high quality chances he was stopping.

This isn’t a “Brian Elliott on St. Louis” situation where the team played so well defensively that it caused a mediocre Elliott to finish the year with a .941 save%. The team stunk defensively in front of Murashov, in large part due to how depleted their defense was. Him having a .930 save% in the playoffs despite giving up a fair amount of bad goals just shows how much he was bailing the team out on those high danger chances.

3 of the 4 goalies in the Calder Cup conference final have similar numbers.

Silovs put up similar numbers last year.

Maybe the AHL is just a different environment than the NHL. I don’t think Murashov was impressive outside of the Hershey series and it’s ignoring context to say this series he was a major problem with the OT goal and give away. Reality is he got outplayed by Akhtyamov.

A portion of this board said Murashov was a better option than Skinner and Silovs in the playoffs. Murashov has tools and looks like a decent prospect, but Penguins media acts like he’s a future starter unquestionably. I just don’t see it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The Penguins literally let the Marlies skaters skate unopposed into the slot on both of their goals today. Murashov stopped 37/39 shots in the game otherwise.

Again, criticizing Murashov’s play is absolutely not an honest discussion on how Murashov played in the playoffs. It’s purely about arguing with other fans who go overboard with hyping up Murashov. Going overboard with criticism towards Murashov despite his strong results is just as wrong as going overboard with hype towards Murashov because of his strong results. It’s just being a contrarian.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Again, you’re complaining about Murashov having a .930 save% instead of having a .960 save%. Focusing on Murashov’s weak areas as he’s actively putting up great results is purely nitpicking and agenda pushing. This is more about you wanting to argue against people who overrate Murashov than you doing a fair analysis of Murashov.

I haven't said a word about his save percentage.

My criticisms were about specific situations and traits, not his production.

Finally, while production is important, the context around that production also matters. This is the same as when we've talked about why Hayes and McGroarty are ready for the NHL. The production is one piece of the evaluation, and they've taken care of that. But they've also exhibited strong two-way play and overall versatility by playing in all situations.

Just like Murashov, however, they're not finished products. They have warts. They have weaknesses. It's OK to point them out. It doesn't mean they should be back in the AHL next year. Murashov, Hayes, and McGroarty all deserve every opportunity to make the NHL club out of camp, and I think they'll earn a spot. But they're not finished products and they have significant things to work on if they want to have long, productive NHL careers.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

The Penguins literally let the Marlies skaters skate unopposed into the slot on both of their goals today. Murashov stopped 37/39 shots in the game otherwise.

Again, criticizing Murashov’s play is absolutely not an honest discussion on how Murashov played in the playoffs. It’s purely about arguing with other fans who go overboard with hyping up Murashov. Going overboard with criticism towards Murashov despite his strong results is just as wrong as going overboard with hype towards Murashov because of his strong results. It’s just being a contrarian.

There are absolutely defensive breakdowns on both. No question. There were breakdowns throughout the playoffs.

But those goals were also poorly played by Murashov.

The rebound on Cowan's goal never should have happened. The first shot is on the backhand at the near post and it goes all the way across to Cowan. Just poor control by Murashov. And this isn't a one-off thing with him. His rebound control is one of the biggest flaws in his game right now.

The Nylander goal is a soft five hole shot barely off the ice. Not much on it. Dangerous spot, sure. But that's a save a high level goalie should make.

Those are things he can continue to work on. But it's also OK to point them out as weaknesses in his game right now. Just like he needs to not try to bat a puck out of the air in traffic.

 

[deakka]

Toronto had 10x better vets. I think they're also the oldest team of the bunch.

Doent help we traded away Tomasino, Heinen and puustinen.
But it is what it is, and i rather it played out like it did so out actual prospects got to play.