Blue Jays GDT: 2024 v5 | Wed, Aug 7 | vs Bal | 7pm ET/4pm PT | Kremer vs Gausman

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MK78

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Yikes i just saw the score 12-0... Looks like Richards got rocked again... I think they just abused him so much this season in so many roles he's finally out of gas
 
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CabanaBoy5

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Can you imagine watching this shitshow next season without a few of our starting pitchers or without Vladdy and Bichette? This team has so many holes and an empty farm system, yet Atkins will be allowed to make changes at the trade deadline? This organization right now is absolute trash. Another series loss. Sad and pathetic state of affairs.
 
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LaP

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Can you imagine watching this shitshow next season without a few of our starting pitchers or without Vladdy and Bichette? This team has so many holes and an empty farm system, yet Atkins will be allowed to make changes at the trade deadline? This organization right now is absolute trash. Another series loss. Sad and pathetic state of affairs.
The most frustrating is the empty farm system. There's literally nothing reminds the CH of a few years ago.
 
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canucksfan

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Ugly loss. I've said this a few times but I don't think this team would be close to competing next year even with good moves during the offseason. Too many holes and guys like Gausman, Bassitt, and Berrios could easily decline more next season.

If they can get good value for the 2025 expiring contracts they need to accept those trades.
 
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RoadWarrior

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“Well below” is more akin to what a Kirk, a Bo, or a KK is putting up. Varsho’s stat line is essentially league average for a CF this year. It sucks because he started off well. Regardless, his defence is the best in baseball. He’s pacing towards a 4 win year (in fact his rWAR already surpassed 3). If he was in CF all season he’d easily hit 4 fwar due to positional value.

There were 6 guys who played CF last year that hit 4+ fWAR. Only 2 (JRod and Luis Robert) that did it as sole CFers.

KK is absolutely redundant. But Varsho is basically our Devo. The problem is management didn’t continue supplementing the offence like Gillick did in 1990.

Fielding is great but he can’t hit a high fastball and get on base with regularity. For some reason many fans are in complete denial of his inept offense.

Management are idiots. No farm system. No bullpen depth. No power bats behind Vladdy in the lineup. Obese players. Strange obsession with team Defense at the expense of everything else.

Atkins has done a magnificent job along with Shapiro.
I hope that was sarcastic.
 

canucksfan

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Fielding is great but he can’t hit a high fastball and get on base with regularity. For some reason many fans are in complete denial of his inept offense.

Management are idiots. No farm system. No bullpen depth. No power bats behind Vladdy in the lineup. Obese players. Strange obsession with team Defense at the expense of everything else.


I hope that was sarcastic.
After today, his wRC is 92. Kevin Pillar's best offensive season with the Jays was in 2015 and he had a wRC of 94. No one was suggesting putting Pillar on the bench. Varsho is even better than Pillar defensively.

As has been explained many times to you, the two problems are that Varsho should be playing CF all of the time. Also, he should be batting 8th or 9th. Both of these are management's fault.

One thing to keep in mind, offensive numbers are down a lot across the league. No team would ever consider taking out a 4-5 WAR player and putting him on the bench.
 

RoadWarrior

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After today, his wRC is 92. Kevin Pillar's best offensive season with the Jays was in 2015 and he had a wRC of 94. No one was suggesting putting Pillar on the bench. Varsho is even better than Pillar defensively.

As has been explained many times to you, the two problems are that Varsho should be playing CF all of the time. Also, he should be batting 8th or 9th. Both of these are management's fault.

One thing to keep in mind, offensive numbers are down a lot across the league. No team would ever consider taking out a 4-5 WAR player and putting him on the bench.
Pillar is a close comparison except that even Pillar could string some hits together and hit for a higher average. Varsho’s batting average has been in decline for 4 consecutive seasons. At this rate he’ll be batting .170 next year. That’s a 4th outfielder.

Pitchers have the line on him and until he starts hitting high fastballs he’s a liability in the lineup.
 

canucksfan

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Pillar is a close comparison except that even Pillar could string some hits together and hit for a higher average. Varsho’s batting average has been in decline for 4 consecutive seasons. At this rate he’ll be batting .170 next year. That’s a 4th outfielder.

Pitchers have the line on him and until he starts hitting high fastballs he’s a liability in the lineup.
You can't just look at average though. Daulton walks more and has better power than Pillar did during his time with the Jays. He is a flawed hitter but so was Pillar. Pillar would frequently chase outside of the zone.

It doesn't matter what you think he will do next season. That's not a solid argument at all.

Again, it's worth repeating, offensive numbers are down across the league. It hasn't been this bad in decades.
 

DFF

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Trevor Richards is garbage again

Should have traded him

Now probably need to pay someone to take him
 

MS

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It's crazy that in 2024 people are still using batting average as their go-to stat for whether a player is good offensively or not. I'm surprised these people aren't trying to fax their opinions into this message board.
 
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leafsleafs

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It's crazy that in 2024 people are still using batting average as their go-to stat for whether a player is good offensively or not. I'm surprised these people aren't trying to fax their opinions into this message board.
I did, but it didn’t go through.
 

LaP

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It's crazy that in 2024 people are still using batting average as their go-to stat for whether a player is good offensively or not. I'm surprised these people aren't trying to fax their opinions into this message board.

Baseball is no different than any other sports despite what the advanced stats guru (it is a religion these days) want to preach. The game has changed bla bla bla i've heard it a trillion times in all sports. You got to find a chair. Either you get on base and steal bases or you hit with power. If you do neither you wont be very useful offensively speaking.

Varsho's problem offensively is he's not getting on base a lot. An under 300 OBP is pretty mediocre. He's 135th in baseball for OBP. And he doesn't have that much power either. Few hits, few walks, lot of strikeouts and occasional power is simply not a good combination to have. He's good defensively and he would be fine as a 8th or 9th hitter who can occasionally hit an homerun but trying to paint Varsho as some kind of star player that can push a team forward is ridiculous imo.

He's a good player to have but that's about it he's nothing special. He's a role player that will fill a role in a lineup that is good enough and need that role to be filled. He's the kind of player you get when you have built your team and are ready to compete and that's the only hole you have to fill. Atkins has put the cart before the horse when he made that trade.
 

MS

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Baseball is no different than any other sports despite what the advanced stats guru (it is a religion these days) want to preach. The game has changed bla bla bla i've heard it a trillion times in all sports. You got to find a chair. Either you get on base and steal bases or you hit with power. If you do neither you wont be very useful offensively speaking.

Varsho's problem offensively is he's not getting on base a lot. An under 300 OBP is pretty mediocre. He's 135th in baseball for OBP. And he doesn't have that much power either. Few hits, few walks, lot of strikeouts and occasional power is simply not a good combination to have. He's good defensively and he would be fine as a 8th or 9th hitter who can occasionally hit an homerun but trying to paint Varsho as some kind of star player that can push a team forward is ridiculous imo.

He's a good player to have but that's about it he's nothing special. He's a role player that will fill a role in a lineup that is good enough and need that role to be filled. He's the kind of player you get when you have built your team and are ready to compete and that's the only hole you have to fill. Atkins has put the cart before the horse when he made that trade.

He’s the best defensive player in baseball and hits 5% below league average and basically average for his position.

He’s a terrific player and this post is like saying that Ozzie Smith was just some meh utility player.
 

CabanaBoy5

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He’s the best defensive player in baseball and hits 5% below league average and basically average for his position.

He’s a terrific player and this post is like saying that Ozzie Smith was just some meh utility player.
League average is .243 according to Basebal-reference.com. Varsho is hitting .201 right now. If that’s 5% less it’s a deceiving stat. Not even close to league average.

Let’s look at a few other offensive stats:

League average OPS is .709, Varsho’s is .677. League average SLG is .397, Varsho’s is .393. OBP league wide is .312, Varsho is .284.

His offence is indefensible. Great defensive outfielder however.
 
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MS

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League average is .243 according to Basebal-reference.com. Varsho is hitting .201 right now. If that’s 5% less it’s a deceiving stat. Not even close to league average.

Let’s look at a few other offensive stats:

League average OPS is .709, Varsho’s is .677. League average SLG is .397, Varsho’s is .393. OBP league wide is .312, Varsho is .284.

His offence is indefensible. Great defensive outfielder however.

Again, why the f*** are we using batting average?

His OPS+ is 93 and his WRC+ is 94. He’s 6-7% below league average as a hitter, almost exactly the same as Jansen and Schneider.

For a CF, it’s basically dead average production. It’s insane that people don’t understand this.
 
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