Blue Jays GDT: 2024 v4 |Mon, Jun 17 | vs BOS | 7pm ET/4pm PT | Pivetta vs Kikuchi

[MS]

Springer has a wRC of 73! Only Vogelbach(71) and Kiermaier are worse.

Jays still have him for two more years after this one.

Reminds me of 2017 Jose Bautista where Bautista still looked fit (hell, he still does now) but simply could not straighten out good pitching anymore. Occasionally he’d have a game/series against an AAAA guy throwing 92 and you’d think he was coming around and then better team/better pitching rolls into town and nope.

They won’t, but they should be DFAing him and cutting their losses this summer if this continues because there’s an opportunity cost to keeping a player this ineffective in a corner outfield spot where you’ve gotta be getting production.

 

[dredeye]

Springer has a wRC of 73! Only Vogelbach(71) and Kiermaier are worse.

Jays still have him for two more years after this one.

I wonder what it would take for the Jays to release him and just eat that money. You can't have him in the lineup everyday if you want to win

Springer has really lost it. Really disappointing AB

Vlad not pinch hitting for him makes no sense. That was the spot to use Vlad

 

[jiggy35]

Veterans Horwitz Schneider and clement showing these new AAA guys like Springer and Kirk how to show up

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Veterans Horwitz Schneider and clement showing these new AAA guys like Springer and Kirk how to show up

Horwtz, Schneider, and Clement each with 2 hits…AAA’ers. Springer, Kirk, and Vogelbach 0 hits and each with a sub .600 OPS on the season. Wtf are each of these guys doing still on the team? Atkins is an incompetent moron.

 

[canucksfan]

Horwtz, Schneider, and Clement each with 2 hits…AAA’ers. Springer, Kirk, and Vogelbach 0 hits and each with a sub .600 OPS on the season. Wtf are each of these guys doing still on the team? Atkins is an incompetent moron.

Well, Kirk is the backup catcher and he's fine as a backup. Furthermore, since May he's been around a league-average hitter.

They invested a lot in Springer but he should be playing a lot less.

Don't get why Vogelbach is on the team still.

It is an overall theme though, they are too loyal to the veterans. Horwitz should have been up earlier, Davis should have been playing more, Jansen should have been playing higher up. Springer was leading off way too late in the year. Even Kiermaier plays too much I find.

 

[canucksfan]

Interesting thread. What stunned me, Bo has 0 hits when the count is 2-0!

 

[Suntouchable13]

Well, Kirk is the backup catcher and he's fine as a backup. Furthermore, since May he's been around a league-average hitter.

They invested a lot in Springer but he should be playing a lot less.

Don't get why Vogelbach is on the team still.

It is an overall theme though, they are too loyal to the veterans. Horwitz should have been up earlier, Davis should have been playing more, Jansen should have been playing higher up. Springer was leading off way too late in the year. Even Kiermaier plays too much I find.

Can Horwitz play RF? Although, I would hate messing with the “kid” by asking him to try another position once again.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Well, Kirk is the backup catcher and he's fine as a backup. Furthermore, since May he's been around a league-average hitter.

They invested a lot in Springer but he should be playing a lot less.

Don't get why Vogelbach is on the team still.

It is an overall theme though, they are too loyal to the veterans. Horwitz should have been up earlier, Davis should have been playing more, Jansen should have been playing higher up. Springer was leading off way too late in the year. Even Kiermaier plays too much I find.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Well, Kirk is the backup catcher and he's fine as a backup. Furthermore, since May he's been around a league-average hitter.

They invested a lot in Springer but he should be playing a lot less.

Don't get why Vogelbach is on the team still.

It is an overall theme though, they are too loyal to the veterans. Horwitz should have been up earlier, Davis should have been playing more, Jansen should have been playing higher up. Springer was leading off way too late in the year. Even Kiermaier plays too much I find.

I agree with everything you've said except for Kirk being fine as a backup. He has been dreadful all season and the fact that he's improved from abysmal stats earlier in the year doesn't mean he should be on this team. Which of these stats indicates he's even an average major leaguer:

*league avg 2024 in parentheses

HR 2 (1.04)
AVG .211 (.241)
OBP .291 (.311)
OPS .594 (.700)
SLG .303 (.389)

OPS+ 73
wRC+ 74
WAR .8

Add to this his clogging up the basepaths if he gets on and his defence hasn't been stellar. Yesterdays throw to 2nd in the 6th was one of the most boneheaded plays a catcher can make mentally (never should have thrown to second) and physically (the throw barely cleared the pitching mound). I reiterate, we can do better than Kirk on this team.

 

[McFly2544]

I agree with everything you've said except for Kirk being fine as a backup. He has been dreadful all season and the fact that he's improved from abysmal stats earlier in the year doesn't mean he should be on this team. Which of these stats indicates he's even an average major leaguer:

*league avg 2024 in parentheses

HR 2 (1.04)
AVG .211 (.241)
OBP .291 (.311)
OPS .594 (.700)
SLG .303 (.389)

OPS+ 73
wRC+ 74
WAR .8

Add to this his clogging up the basepaths if he gets on and his defence hasn't been stellar. Yesterdays throw to 2nd in the 6th was one of the most boneheaded plays a catcher can make mentally (never should have thrown to second) and physically (the throw barely cleared the pitching mound). I reiterate, we can do better than Kirk on this team.

If he was the starter sure…put his numbers up against other backups

 

[GoonieFace]

I agree with everything you've said except for Kirk being fine as a backup. He has been dreadful all season and the fact that he's improved from abysmal stats earlier in the year doesn't mean he should be on this team. Which of these stats indicates he's even an average major leaguer:

*league avg 2024 in parentheses

HR 2 (1.04)
AVG .211 (.241)
OBP .291 (.311)
OPS .594 (.700)
SLG .303 (.389)

OPS+ 73
wRC+ 74
WAR .8

Add to this his clogging up the basepaths if he gets on and his defence hasn't been stellar. Yesterdays throw to 2nd in the 6th was one of the most boneheaded plays a catcher can make mentally (never should have thrown to second) and physically (the throw barely cleared the pitching mound). I reiterate, we can do better than Kirk on this team.

He’s an elite defender, one bad throw doesn’t change that. His bat is coming around lately as well. Go through the catchers in the league, Kirk is fine

 

[CabanaBoy5]

He’s an elite defender, one bad throw doesn’t change that. His bat is coming around lately as well. Go through the catchers in the league, Kirk is fine

Really? He's 2 for 11 in his last five games and 2 for 14 in the last two weeks with a .143 BA. I guess if you increase the sample size, he's been 10 for 42 in his last 15 games for a BA of .238. Not impressive for someone who doesn't hit home runs and that's still not league average.

And no, one bad throw doesn't make him a poor defender, but the brain cramp of throwing to 2nd in the first place is concerning for an "elite" defender.

I don't understand the love people have for this guy. He's been a major disappointment. People are celebrating he's a good backup? My how his stock has fallen.

 

[Suntouchable13]

A lot of players have been huge disappointments, it’s crazy. A lot of really low numbers. Maybe you can explain it using age for Springer and JT, but the others? It’s baffling. These guys just can’t hit.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

A lot of players have been huge disappointments, it’s crazy. A lot of really low numbers. Maybe you can explain it using age for Springer and JT, but the others? It’s baffling. These guys just can’t hit.

Agree about Springer and JT. The bat speed slows down with age, but how do you explain Vladdy with only 7 home runs, or Bichette's replacement level WAR of -.1? Do you think the hitting coaches should be changed, even at this point in the season? Given the mediocrity in the chase for a wild card spot, it should be an option if we want to make the playoffs. I'd do it just to reward the starters who have been pretty damn good. But that would necessitate at least a few offensive additions as well.

 

[canucksfan]

I agree with everything you've said except for Kirk being fine as a backup. He has been dreadful all season and the fact that he's improved from abysmal stats earlier in the year doesn't mean he should be on this team. Which of these stats indicates he's even an average major leaguer:

*league avg 2024 in parentheses

HR 2 (1.04)
AVG .211 (.241)
OBP .291 (.311)
OPS .594 (.700)
SLG .303 (.389)

OPS+ 73
wRC+ 74
WAR .8

Add to this his clogging up the basepaths if he gets on and his defence hasn't been stellar. Yesterdays throw to 2nd in the 6th was one of the most boneheaded plays a catcher can make mentally (never should have thrown to second) and physically (the throw barely cleared the pitching mound). I reiterate, we can do better than Kirk on this team.

Firstly, there are very few backup catchers that are better than Kirk. Orioles have McCann and he's a negative WAR player. Kirk has a 0.8 WAR. Since May he has a WRC of 96 very close to the league average. Hence, when I said since May he has been a league-average hitter. His defense has been very good. Excellent pitch framer.

His speed definitely sucks. While I haven't looked extensively, I didn't find a better backup catcher than Kirk. Furthermore, the team isn't replacing Kirk with an elite hitter. They need a backup catcher and the other options are far worse.

Next year, when the team lets Jansen walk and Kirk is the full-time catcher then it's time for criticism.

 

[MK78]

I have no problem with Kirk being a backup. We just need a reliable #1.

I can put up with Kirk's flaws once or twice a week.

 

[Puckstuff]

I have no problem with Kirk being a backup. We just need a reliable #1.

I can put up with Kirk's flaws once or twice a week.

It will be interesting to see if they bring back Jansen next season on a big deal, or if they will go with the less expensive Kirk and then use the Jansen money on an even bigger bat. I'd imagine the only reason you don't bring back Jansen is if they have their eyes on an even better player.

 

[Hellcat]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1801664745864315132

It will be interesting to see if they bring back Jansen next season on a big deal, or if they will go with the less expensive Kirk and then use the Jansen money on an even bigger bat. I'd imagine the only reason you don't bring back Jansen is if they have their eyes on an even better player.

Philly needs a catcher with offence now that theirs is on the IR might be an opportunity to max out a return for Jansen.

 

[MK78]

It will be interesting to see if they bring back Jansen next season on a big deal, or if they will go with the less expensive Kirk and then use the Jansen money on an even bigger bat. I'd imagine the only reason you don't bring back Jansen is if they have their eyes on an even better player.

Better catcher you mean? Kirk can't be the #1, he has shown it when he's had to fill in for Jansen while injured.

 

[LaP]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1801664745864315132

Philly needs a catcher with offence now that theirs is on the IR might be an opportunity to max out a return for Jansen.

Wait they finally gave up on Vogelbach? Atkins feeling the heat?

BTW is this a dreaded Apple TV game? Can't find it anywhere.

 

[The Nemesis]

Wait they finally gave up on Vogelbach? Atkins feeling the heat?

BTW is this a dreaded Apple TV game? Can't find it anywhere.

Sportsnet 1

 

[MK78]

BTW is this a dreaded Apple TV game? Can't find it anywhere.

Nope, next ones are July 19 & 28.

 

[LaP]

Sportsnet 1

Strange i don't have it it's NHL in 30 and after that NBA finals.

 

[The Nemesis]

Strange i don't have it it's NHL in 30 and after that NBA finals.

I have NHL in 30, Misplays of the Month, NBA Countdown, and the NBA Finals on the 4 regional channels. Sportsnet1 has this game, and SN360 has wrestling

 

[LaP]

Interesting thread. What stunned me, Bo has 0 hits when the count is 2-0!

I don't want to defend Bichette he's having a terrible year but when your lineup doesn't have any threat in it then it's much easier to throw balls and bad pitches with a count of 2-0. Again i don't want to defend Vlad and BO they have been terrible but i mean if i was a pitcher i would be very comfortable throwing around them without any fear of anyone behind them giving me troubles. The extreme worse case scenario is i walk them and a guy behind gets a single or a sacrifice fly and i give 1 point. If i'm a good pitcher on a good day that's about as bad as it can get. So i would throw around them for sure.