2024 Training Camp Thread (Update 10/07: Roster Set)

[Lunatik]

Videos

https://x.com/i/web/status/1843407293569798552

https://x.com/i/web/status/1843410981218861276

https://x.com/i/web/status/1843414751126188166

https://x.com/i/web/status/1843418527857782872

 

[Lunatik]

Interesting from the Huska interview that the plan for Honzek was originally play some preseason games then Wranglers.

 

[JPeeper]

Honestly, I'm a big proponent of savings prospects from clown shows.

I don't think this team will be very good. I don't think we have a defence that can hang consistently at the NHL level to be able to be able to string together wins like you have to do in the NHL. Brzustewicz and Parekh should be no where near the big club unless it's a cup of coffee to just understand the speed and what they need to improve on. Honzek making the team is a pleasant surprise, and on a high note at least he'll be playing with some legit NHLers.

The Flames seem to really like Bru a lot, not sure if he'll get some games this year with all the 7-8 guys we have + Poirier/Grush, etc. , but if he doesn't make the team next year I'm sure he'll get called up throughout the year.

I see Parekh as at least 2-3 years away from the NHL, but who knows, he himself said he didn't have a great camp and didn't play to his strengths, so maybe he comes in next year and dazzles.

No need to rush any of the D prospects with so many 7-8 d-men on the team or in the AHL. Let them develop in the A where they can win some games before being thrown to the wolves.

 

[Bounces R Way]

The Flames seem to really like Bru a lot, not sure if he'll get some games this year with all the 7-8 guys we have + Poirier/Grush, etc. , but if he doesn't make the team next year I'm sure he'll get called up throughout the year.

I see Parekh as at least 2-3 years away from the NHL, but who knows, he himself said he didn't have a great camp and didn't play to his strengths, so maybe he comes in next year and dazzles.

No need to rush any of the D prospects with so many 7-8 d-men on the team or in the AHL. Let them develop in the A where they can win some games before being thrown to the wolves.

Yeah let's wait until they're all good and cooked up ready for a NHL shot and then lose em on waivers.
Like I get the Bean and Bahl acquisitions. You want your blueline to at least be of NHL quality. But the reluctance to waive Hanley and signing Barrie and Tinordi with Pachal already here I find just mystifying.

That's now 5 guys on the depth chart some of these young dmen have to jump to get even semi-significant minutes with the big team. Is a couple week callup in the big league such a monumentally bad idea for development for these players? They're not newborns with soft spots on their skulls. As much as the org might think they know where a player is at NHL ready wise you can't be sure until you actually see them playing in the NHL.

Even though no one seems to want to say it out loud the results this season don't really matter, and in fact it would be beneficial for the franchise to be out of the playoff race in the spring. What actually is important is seeing progression from the prospect pool. We have 5 young dmen with the Wranglers that could realistically be ready for a cup of coffee or more callup this season. But no Tyson Barrie needed a job and we obliged him.

 

[Kahvi]

Sharangovich is week-to-week with LBI

 

[Khrox]

Interesting from the Huska interview that the plan for Honzek was originally play some preseason games then Wranglers.

I mean, that makes sense. Playing in the AHL (since he was eligible) lets them focus on his professional development after a rough season for that. He just played his ass off and absolutely beat out a few people who were considered favourites for this spot.

 

[Lunatik]

I mean, that makes sense. Playing in the AHL (since he was eligible) lets them focus on his professional development after a rough season for that. He just played his ass off and absolutely beat out a few people who were considered favourites for this spot.

I always felt that way too but I was in the extreme minority

 

[Volica]

The Flames seem to really like Bru a lot, not sure if he'll get some games this year with all the 7-8 guys we have + Poirier/Grush, etc. , but if he doesn't make the team next year I'm sure he'll get called up throughout the year.

I see Parekh as at least 2-3 years away from the NHL, but who knows, he himself said he didn't have a great camp and didn't play to his strengths, so maybe he comes in next year and dazzles.

No need to rush any of the D prospects with so many 7-8 d-men on the team or in the AHL. Let them develop in the A where they can win some games before being thrown to the wolves.

Completely in agreement with you.
I could see Hunter getting some games late in the season, especially if he performs well in the AHL. NHL teams do like doing that for kids. Some people can't really grasp how much of a reward it is for young guys to play in the league for a few games. Parekh should be no where near this roster this season, maybe a cup of tea next year, but shouldn't be a regular until this team has secured some top talent at the draft is is ready to start making headway again.

Being in the NHL for like 3 games (with average days between them) is making like $33,000 with a 900k NHL salary. Meanwhile in the AHL most guys are making 60-70k for the year. It's a legit big deal with big financial impacts for young guys.

 

[Volica]

Yeah let's wait until they're all good and cooked up ready for a NHL shot and then lose em on waivers.
Like I get the Bean and Bahl acquisitions. You want your blueline to at least be of NHL quality. But the reluctance to waive Hanley and signing Barrie and Tinordi with Pachal already here I find just mystifying.

That's now 5 guys on the depth chart some of these young dmen have to jump to get even semi-significant minutes with the big team. Is a couple week callup in the big league such a monumentally bad idea for development for these players? They're not newborns with soft spots on their skulls. As much as the org might think they know where a player is at NHL ready wise you can't be sure until you actually see them playing in the NHL.

Even though no one seems to want to say it out loud the results this season don't really matter, and in fact it would be beneficial for the franchise to be out of the playoff race in the spring. What actually is important is seeing progression from the prospect pool. We have 5 young dmen with the Wranglers that could realistically be ready for a cup of coffee or more callup this season. But no Tyson Barrie needed a job and we obliged him.

Impact players Calgary has lost on waivers since I've been a fan:
Paul Byron.

I'm really against 'play the kids because we'll be bad', because that's how teams end up in the endless Columbus, Edmonton, Sabres loop. Teams are just much better off feeding veterans to mediocrity/badness than rushing draft picks to the league. What seems to work best, and it's tried and true almost every time, is accumulating young guys, letting them develop in the minors/AHL/cup of coffee NHL and then bringing them all up near the same time, with your big draft picks (the guys you pick 1-5) along with some solid veterans (not the 'I score 16 points a year, but I'm a good guy' types, but the 'oh no, I've got a cup, ppg season, and I still have some gas in the tank' types) and sort of going from 0 to 60 in a season or two.

I think of Toronto now.
I think of Chicago in the Toews/Kane era. It's actually crazy with this one. The only three players who weren't tweeners when Kane/Toews entered the league on that team were: Havlat, Keith and Campbell. Three guys. The rest of the team (all the guys you can name that become major NHL players in their own rights) were still playing 40 games in the NHL, the rest in the AHL at like 22-23.

You find that the teams that rush everyone to the show either take a longer time to hit their stride (Tampa, Colorado), never hit their stride (CBJ, Buffalo) or only by the grace of God are gifted a generational talent and don't have to worry about player development (Edmonton).

 

[Mobiandi]

I’m not even convinced any of Bean/Miro/Barrie are here past the deadline

 

[SaintMorose]

Impact players Calgary has lost on waivers since I've been a fan:
Paul Byron.

I'd consider Jusso Valimaki as good or better than Paul Byron

 

[super6646]

I'd consider Jusso Valimaki as good or better than Paul Byron

Valimaki still really gets me bad. It's as if ppl forgot that he came back pre-injury and was tracking well until Ward was fired

 

[Kranix]

I'd consider Jusso Valimaki as good or better than Paul Byron

neither were big losses

 

[Rubi]

Impact players Calgary has lost on waivers since I've been a fan:
Paul Byron.

Juuso Valimaki would look pretty good on the Flames D right now.
IMO any time you lose player on waivers, who goes on to become a regular NHL'er, you f***ed up somehow along the way. Seems like most time its to keep some schlub on the roster who has no long term future with the club... or even short term future.. like 12 months.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Impact players Calgary has lost on waivers since I've been a fan:
Paul Byron.

How many years in that time was the team definitively in a rebuild?
Hell they are clearly in one right now and still won't say it out loud.

I'm really against 'play the kids because we'll be bad', because that's how teams end up in the endless Columbus, Edmonton, Sabres loop. Teams are just much better off feeding veterans to mediocrity/badness than rushing draft picks to the league. What seems to work best, and it's tried and true almost every time, is accumulating young guys, letting them develop in the minors/AHL/cup of coffee NHL and then bringing them all up near the same time, with your big draft picks (the guys you pick 1-5) along with some solid veterans (not the 'I score 16 points a year, but I'm a good guy' types, but the 'oh no, I've got a cup, ppg season, and I still have some gas in the tank' types) and sort of going from 0 to 60 in a season or two.

Those teams failed largely because they lacked a solid veteran group to help bring young players along. The Flames actually do have some decent vets, but they're only going to be decent and/or here for so long. We aren't the 2000s Red Wings, where that strategy of over marinating players in the minors made sense. The league is also vastly different than it was, the kids coming up are more prepared, more polished, and more ready to make an impact earlier than they ever have been before.

I think of Toronto now.
I think of Chicago in the Toews/Kane era. It's actually crazy with this one. The only three players who weren't tweeners when Kane/Toews entered the league on that team were: Havlat, Keith and Campbell. Three guys. The rest of the team (all the guys you can name that become major NHL players in their own rights) were still playing 40 games in the NHL, the rest in the AHL at like 22-23.

You find that the teams that rush everyone to the show either take a longer time to hit their stride (Tampa, Colorado), never hit their stride (CBJ, Buffalo) or only by the grace of God are gifted a generational talent and don't have to worry about player development (Edmonton).

This is what I mean. Right now we have five young defenseman on the Wranglers that could conceivably have a NHL future. Now not all of them will pan out and that's ok but it's likely there's something there with two maybe three of them. Four of them are waiver exempt, meaning this would be an ideal season to try em out even if just for a couple weeks at the NHL level. With all these bottom of the lineup defenseman on 1 way deals where is the opportunity to even do that this season? You think being on a pro team that goes 2-4-1 over two weeks is going to shatter their confidence and ruin them? Unlikely they are going to be ready to be every day NHLers at this point, they would have made the team if so, but why not every third day or whatever.

Say Kuznetsov or Poirier or Solovyov have a really exceptional month in the AHL and are deserving of a callup. In theory the team can tell Hanley, Pachal, Barrie, Bean or whoever to take a seat because they know the score. But in practice how often does that actually happen? The HC goes with the devil he knows because they're already here and haven't done anything really wrong to deserve being sat. The Flames have a luxury of not having much in the way of expectations this season and the next. Why they wouldn't take advantage of that by rotating the bottom of the roster as much as possible with waiver exempt guys I don't understand. They must know they're not about to compete for a SC, but want to maintain appearances of being competitive for Edwards or something.

 

[JPeeper]

Yeah let's wait until they're all good and cooked up ready for a NHL shot and then lose em on waivers.

Literally what? When did I say we should keep them in the AHL for half a decade? These guys don't just become waiver eligible a year after they're drafted.

For years everyone was praising Detroit because they were able to stay competitive for 2 decades, why? Because they let their prospects develop in the lower leagues so when they're brought up they aren't completely in over their head. D-men especially shouldn't be going from the CHL or a year in the NCAA to the NHL.

 

[Yepthatsme]

Juuso Valimaki would look pretty good on the Flames D right now.
IMO any time you lose player on waivers, who goes on to become a regular NHL'er, you f***ed up somehow along the way. Seems like most time its to keep some schlub on the roster who has no long term future with the club... or even short term future.. like 12 months.

Who of Weegar, Hanifin, Zadorov, Kylington was he playing over or better than at any given moment the previous few years? It’s only a failure if you lost them for dumb reasons, him legitimately being worse than every LD on our roster is a legitimate reason.

He’s also the same age as Bean and signed for 250k more on a deal he signed this offseason. He’s not as good as people here have told themselves he is

 

[Rubi]

Who of Weegar, Hanifin, Zadorov, Kylington was he playing over or better than at any given moment the previous few years? It’s only a failure if you lost them for dumb reasons, him legitimately being worse than every LD on our roster is a legitimate reason.

He’s also the same age as Bean and signed for 250k more on a deal he signed this offseason. He’s not as good as people here have told themselves he is

The year we lost Valimaki on waivers we had Dennis Gilbert, Troy Stecher, Connor Mackey, Nick DeSimone, and 32 year old Michael Stone playing defence. None of those players are still playing for the Flames and most of them are struggling to be full time NHL'ers. Flames management f***ed up.

 

[Yepthatsme]

The year we lost Valimaki on waivers we had Dennis Gilbert, Troy Stecher, Connor Mackey, Nick DeSimone, and 32 year old Michael Stone playing defence. None of those players are still playing for the Flames and most of them are struggling to be full time NHL'ers. Flames management f***ed up.

Gilbert, Mackey, and Desimone all played 1 combined game for the Flames? Why try to include their names? Our LD that season was Kylington, Hanifin, and Zadorov, two 24 years olds and a 26 year old, while Valimaki was 23. We legitimately had no room for him.

 

[Lunatik]

Gilbert, Mackey, and Desimone all played 1 combined game for the Flames? Why try to include their names? Our LD that season was Kylington, Hanifin, and Zadorov, two 24 years olds and a 26 year old, while Valimaki was 23. We legitimately had no room for him.

both Zadorov and Kylington can also play RD, as can Valimaki and a large portion of LHD that play in the NHL.

And the season Valimaki was claimed, was 2022-23, DeSimone played 4 games, Mackey played 10, Gilbert played 23, Stetcher played 20 and Stone played 48. The 6-7 roles were a rotating door.

 

[Rubi]

Gilbert, Mackey, and Desimone all played 1 combined game for the Flames? Why try to include their names? Our LD that season was Kylington, Hanifin, and Zadorov, two 24 years olds and a 26 year old, while Valimaki was 23. We legitimately had no room for him.

Kylington was on IR for the whole 2022-23 season. Valimaki was claimed by Arizona on Oct 9 2022.

 

[Yepthatsme]

both Zadorov and Kylington can also play RD, as can Valimaki and a large portion of LHD that play in the NHL.

And the season Valimaki was claimed, was 2022-23, DeSimone played 4 games, Mackey played 10, Gilbert played 23, Stetcher played 20 and Stone played 48. The 6-7 roles were a rotating door.

My bad on that I actually did have the seasons messed up, Valimaki was sent down to the AHL that year after being outplayed badly. The next year our defense was so much worse, with Weegar, Hanifin, and Zadorov being our LD with Kylington getting his time to get his head right, and Andersson and Tanev on our right side.

And Valimaki got outplayed by them still, with Gilbert and Mackey being similar in age. Another season he would’ve rode the pine again save for spot performances on his off side which he did not look comfortable on at all which probably contributed largely to why he was outplayed.

Why can’t we just be happy about the young guys currently getting fantastic opportunities on our team, instead of manufacturing reasons to be upset?

 

[Lunatik]

My bad on that I actually did have the seasons messed up, Valimaki was sent down to the AHL that year after being outplayed badly. The next year our defense was so much worse, with Weegar, Hanifin, and Zadorov being our LD with Kylington getting his time to get his head right, and Andersson and Tanev on our right side.

And Valimaki got outplayed by them still, with Gilbert and Mackey being similar in age. Another season he would’ve rode the pine again save for spot performances on his off side which he did not look comfortable on at all which probably contributed largely to why he was outplayed.

Why can’t we just be happy about the young guys currently getting fantastic opportunities on our team, instead of manufacturing reasons to be upset?

I'm not upset. Was just pointing out the mistake, but in general I am against giving away young players with high potential and if we're drafting a guy in the first round, waiving them at the first opportunity does seem ill advised. Might get away with it like we did with Pelletier, but we didn't with Vali and I don't see how it can be chalked up as anything but a mistake. But it was too long ago to worry about now, we don't have time machines.

 

[Mobiandi]

People are still hung up on Valimaki? Really?

Anyway, most years I'd be super in favour of graduating as many Dmen as possible. This year, meh.

Wolf will get lit up this year, make no mistake about it. I'd rather have the scapegoats be a journeyman like Barrie, a forward-turned-Dman in Miromanov, or a waiver wire guy like Hanley.

The guys we have knocking on the door right now have a tremendously limited ceiling (Solo, Kuz, Grush). If they are to eventually make it on the team, I'd rather ease them into it in the new year than have them suffer the weight of October/November coaching expectations (we won't make the playoffs but we won't pretend that we won't try to make the playoffs). The real blue chip guys like Parekh and Bruz are a year away. That's when spots need to open up.

I'll be happy with a Poirier cameo this year. That would be nice. For now, whatever. Priority #1 has to be insulating Wolf with some seasoned vets who can help him acclimate to playing a full NHL season, not recreating the Wranglers top pair.

 

[Anglesmith]

IIRC we were six deep on D coming into 2022-23. Kylington didn't come to camp which opened up a spot. It was a layup for Valimaki and he was out-loud terrible throughout camp.

The Flames also didn't know if Kylington was going long term or would be brief, so I think he made their decision pretty easy to send him down and try to find his game in the AHL.

It's great that Valimaki has turned into an NHL defenceman, but that shouldn't be confused with an impact player. He's... a Nick Leddy if things go well? Sure, he can be a part of a winning team, but he's not the main reason they're a good team. If our rebuild fails because we can't find a guy as good as Valimaki, the problem is a bit bigger than one decision.