2024 Training Camp Roster & Schedule

[The Zermanator]

There are pros-and-cons to each approach, similar to spreading out offensive firepower or stacking it.

In the near-term I'm not so sure Edvinsson is ready to carry a pairing to the level where it can draw significant pressure away from Seider. That's more of a long-term hope imo.

2-3 years from now I envision Edvinsson being the defensive stalwart to shelter Pellikka next to.

I wouldn't think he'd be able to take significant pressure off Seider right off the hop either. But I think (much) sooner than later, he's going to be the 2nd best dman on the team after Seider, if he isn't already. Considering we don't exactly have an embarrassment of riches on the defensive end at the moment, you're pretty well putting all your eggs in one basket if they're paired together.

While I do see some benefit of pairing them together, more so for Edvinsson than for Seider tbh, I think there's more benefit to splitting them up. After all, Seider can only be on the ice for 22-25 minutes on any given night anyway. So if we pair them together, that's 35-38 minutes of game time with some combination of Gustafsson, Chiarot, Petry, Maatta, and Holl on the ice. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Sure the top pair will be a beast, but any team with more than one top forward line like Toronto or Edmonton is going to feast on those bottom pairings. By splitting them up, if Seider is gassed you at least have Edvinsson's line you can deploy. And while he still obviously needs to acclimate to the NHL and continue improving, a 6'7 dman who skates like the wind with a good head on his shoulders is a very useful and versatile card to play even if still raw.

I also look at it from the standpoint of past experience. We had a young, highly pedigreed dman who entered the league a few years ago, and he was the de facto #1 dman within a matter of months. I don't have those expectations for Edvinsson per se, Seider was a unicorn in that regard. But Seider also stepped into the league in his D+3 season, while Edvinsson is stepping into a fulltime role in his D+4 season. They were/are both highly pedigreed, and that's for a reason. They're not the types who necessarily need sheltering. Sure there might be some growing pains to start, but I think Edvinsson would learn quickly, as Seider did, and he would be all the better for it in the long run. He was drafted 6th OA because he projects to be a big-game player, and he's excelled at every stop ever since his draft. So without any reason to doubt him, I say let him run the 2nd pairing and see how it works out. If he struggles and needs a little sheltering, then you can re-assess. But I think he'd do just fine in the role, and should have an opportunity to prove it one way or another.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I expect if things are going as they should Edvinsson and Mo will close games together. I think that is why they want them to get reps together. I see no reason why if the other team takes a timeout with 40 seconds that isn’t the pair you feed them.

You can split them until that. Tampa did that with Hedman and Mcdonagh for years.

 

[DoMakc]

I don't hate the top 3 lines but that 4th line looks about as useful as a screen door on a submarine.

I disagree - it is basically your classical 4th line, don't get scored on and maybe generate something on forecheck. better than having Sprong or Fabbri with Veleno, which was not a scoring line nor checking line and had no purpose.

 

[The Zermanator]

I expect if things are going as they should Edvinsson and Mo will close games together. I think that is why they want them to get reps together. I see no reason why if the other team takes a timeout with 40 seconds that isn’t the pair you feed them.

You can split them until that. Tampa did that with Hedman and Mcdonagh for years.

Oh yes, absolutely agree with that. You split them up as a general rule to maximize the amount of minutes you have at least one of them patrolling the ice every game. But in specific moments/situations where you need all the big guns on deck, you pair them together with Larkin and Raymond up front. I guess the 3rd forward with the current roster would be either Kane/Debrincat or Compher, depending on whether scoring a goal or preventing a goal is needed. But hopefully Danielson replaces Compher in that role sooner than later.

 

[Henkka]

Personally, I think the vast majority of Chiarot's improved play last year was brought about by having a much easier role. Others believe in him, but I think even the Chiarot fans are a little concerned.

Personally I'm not concerned about it. Grass will grow. The sun will rise. Bacon will taste delicious and Chiarot will play poorly. Why should I devote my concern to the inevitable.

Why are you guys concentrating only on Chiarot being bad and Petry being bad.

Because It's Seider and Edvinsson who are GONNA BE GOOD, and carry those partners to better seasons.

What a heck is so hard to understand that? Seeing only bad things, and not seeing those good and easily predictive things.

Veterans rarely regress much, maybe a bit. But young players develop A LOT and take huge steps, which will improve generally more than the partner's regress is.

Just a proven fact.

Enjoy.

 

[Gniwder]

DeBrincat - Larkin - Raymond
Rasmussen - Copp - Kane
Berggren - Compher - Tarasenko
Motte - Veleno - Fischer

That's what they used.

Interesting middle6. Just some new look.

That second line is ugly, Kane is too old and slow to score on his own. Might as well let Nate have a roster spot, and have Motte sit in the press box.

The only positive is that they're giving Burger a legit chance on a real line.

That would imply that 4th line has a use. I sincerely doubt it.

4th line is usually just scrubs on capped out teams. I'll remind you that Helm has a second Cup ring.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

It's looking like
Chiarot - Seider
Edvinsson - Petry

So instead of 1 good 1st pairing and 1 bad second pairing we're getting a below average 1st AND 2nd pairing.

This season's gonna be rough.

You'd rather have a 2nd pair that gets caved in?

And Ed has only played 25 games in the NHL. It doesn't seem crazy to me to start hi on the second pairing.

I saw an article on Mlive mentioning he bulked up. 6'6" 225 lbs and can skate has the making of a pretty formidable Dman.

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

I wouldn't think he'd be able to take significant pressure off Seider right off the hop either. But I think (much) sooner than later, he's going to be the 2nd best dman on the team after Seider, if he isn't already. Considering we don't exactly have an embarrassment of riches on the defensive end at the moment, you're pretty well putting all your eggs in one basket if they're paired together.

While I do see some benefit of pairing them together, more so for Edvinsson than for Seider tbh, I think there's more benefit to splitting them up. After all, Seider can only be on the ice for 22-25 minutes on any given night anyway. So if we pair them together, that's 35-38 minutes of game time with some combination of Gustafsson, Chiarot, Petry, Maatta, and Holl on the ice. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Sure the top pair will be a beast, but any team with more than one top forward line like Toronto or Edmonton is going to feast on those bottom pairings. By splitting them up, if Seider is gassed you at least have Edvinsson's line you can deploy. And while he still obviously needs to acclimate to the NHL and continue improving, a 6'7 dman who skates like the wind with a good head on his shoulders is a very useful and versatile card to play even if still raw.

I also look at it from the standpoint of past experience. We had a young, highly pedigreed dman who entered the league a few years ago, and he was the de facto #1 dman within a matter of months. I don't have those expectations for Edvinsson per se, Seider was a unicorn in that regard. But Seider also stepped into the league in his D+3 season, while Edvinsson is stepping into a fulltime role in his D+4 season. They were/are both highly pedigreed, and that's for a reason. They're not the types who necessarily need sheltering. Sure there might be some growing pains to start, but I think Edvinsson would learn quickly, as Seider did, and he would be all the better for it in the long run. He was drafted 6th OA because he projects to be a big-game player, and he's excelled at every stop ever since his draft. So without any reason to doubt him, I say let him run the 2nd pairing and see how it works out. If he struggles and needs a little sheltering, then you can re-assess. But I think he'd do just fine in the role, and should have an opportunity to prove it one way or another.

This is a good summation of things. People should trust Ed's pedigree rather than trying to put him in the safest spot. IMO it's better for him to develop his own two-way game and learn to take charge rather than defer to or over-rely on Seider. They would be great together for 18-20 ES minutes, the rest of the D would be awful for all the other ES minutes. Lalonde relies on depth rather than over-loading his top guys anyway.

First impressions seem to be getting in the way of evaluating Chiarot. He was a lot better in year two and is the obvious partner again for Seider. As for the second pair and the rest there is probably going to be some experimentation. What would be so wrong with putting Ed with the best guy regardless of handedness and give them time to develop some work-arounds if they're both lefties? Maybe we find out Ed is good at RD and his best partner turns out to be AlJo. The team also needs fo find out if they can get anything out of Holl. If nothing works and it's holding the team back, then SY will have to get on the phone and do something about it. It's not like there is a league rule against making trades before Christmas.

 

[norrisnick]

I want every lefty not named Ben to play a preseason game next to Mo. AlJo, Maatta, Ed, Gus, all of them before Chiarot. Try something else before defaulting to a mediocre pairing.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

debrincat - larkin - raymond
copp - danielson - kane
berggren - compher - tarasenko
chiarot - rasmussen - fischer
motte - veleno

maatta - seider
edvinsson - petry
gustafsson - johansson
holl

talbot
lyon

 

[newfy]

Personally, I think the vast majority of Chiarot's improved play last year was brought about by having a much easier role. Others believe in him, but I think even the Chiarot fans are a little concerned.

Personally I'm not concerned about it. Grass will grow. The sun will rise. Bacon will taste delicious and Chiarot will play poorly. Why should I devote my concern to the inevitable.

People shouldnt even really be concerned about Chiarot after last year. A second pair role was a big part of it obviously but I think dealing with the health of his Dad didnt help that first season he was here either.

Last year he was completely fine on the 2nd pair.

Petry could use an upgrade....

 

[13to40]

People shouldnt even really be concerned about Chiarot after last year. A second pair role was a big part of it obviously but I think dealing with the health of his Dad didnt help that first season he was here either.

Last year he was completely fine on the 2nd pair.

Petry could use an upgrade....

Couldn’t agree more.

Think he looked quite good last year.

Still think it would be kind of rewarding as a fan of a rebuilding team to see Seider paired with Edvinsson.

Otherwise Mo with Chiarot is a solid, hard nosed pairing to play against. Definitely will be the meanest of the 3 pairs to play against.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Why are you guys concentrating only on Chiarot being bad and Petry being bad.

Because It's Seider and Edvinsson who are GONNA BE GOOD, and carry those partners to better seasons.

What a heck is so hard to understand that? Seeing only bad things, and not seeing those good and easily predictive things.

Veterans rarely regress much, maybe a bit. But young players develop A LOT and take huge steps, which will improve generally more than the partner's regress is.

Just a proven fact.

Enjoy.

At least a solid chunk of my motivation is managing expectations for Seider, Edvinsson and the team. If Chiarot is on the first pair, it's going to be a below average first pair. If Petry is on the second pairing, it's going to be a below average second pairing. Expecting a 23 and 21 year old to carry those guys to respectable seasons in those roles is straight up unfair. And it's not just their general lack of ability, it's the fact that both have really hard games to jive with. Both Chiarot and Petry like to skate the puck more than they're capable of doing. Both are prone to sending panicked passes to covered players. Both regularly get walked by opposing forwards. That means their partners have to deal with a lot of unnecessary turnovers, trying to accept passes while they're covered, having fewer puck touches, and having to constantly play it safe to avoid breakaways against. I hate watching Seider deal with that. I'm not excited to watch Ed deal with it. I'd rather see them out there together, playing well and practicing good habits, learning how to elevate/be elevated by good players rather than minimize the damage from bad ones.

 

[lilidk]

debrincat - larkin - raymond
copp - danielson - kane
berggren - compher - tarasenko
chiarot - rasmussen - fischer
motte - veleno

maatta - seider
edvinsson - petry
gustafsson - johansson
holl

talbot
lyon

I like Chiarot as a wing, but that will not solve any problems, we are not good at D

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

I like Chiarot as a wing, but that will not solve any problems, we are not good at D

trade for andersson

maatta - seider
edvinsson - andersson
gustafsson - johansson
petry - holl

 

[Euro Twins]

Why are you guys concentrating only on Chiarot being bad and Petry being bad.

Because It's Seider and Edvinsson who are GONNA BE GOOD, and carry those partners to better seasons.

What a heck is so hard to understand that? Seeing only bad things, and not seeing those good and easily predictive things.

Veterans rarely regress much, maybe a bit. But young players develop A LOT and take huge steps, which will improve generally more than the partner's regress is.

Just a proven fact.

Enjoy.

Vets rarely regress much? Hmmmm....

Should I tell him?

 

[Henkka]

Vets rarely regress much? Hmmmm....

Should I tell him?

Yeah, vets regress less at same time than young players will develop.

Just like Earth is round or milk is white.

 

[heyfolks]

Pretty sure that Tank - player x - Kane was a line in NYR for a brief second in 2022-23. Who did Copp play with while there?

Maybe by playing Copp and Kane the coach is trying to salvage some value from him and turn him into a 40-50 point guy?

Rasmussen on the 2nd line there doesn't really bother me. Maybe he becomes a 20-20 guy on that wing.

The best way to get value out of Copp is making him the 4th line center.

Rasmussen just doesn't have a spot on the 2nd line. Raymond, Cat, Kan and Tarasenko are ahead of him on the depth chart.

 

[Henkka]

Think this Ras - Copp - Kane experiment was just constructed for this practise game, to get those special teams together like they wanted.

Kane could join the Top line as 4th guy and Ras+Copp could play that PK practise against the Team White.

It isn't the real Middle6 they are planning.

Still liked a lot how Berggren and Tarasenko gelled together.

 

[ricky0034]

Yeah, vets regress less at same time than young players will develop.

Just like Earth is round or milk is white.

sometimes milk is chocolate milk or vets are 37

 

[Ulysses31]

The best way to get value out of Copp is making him the 4th line center.

Rasmussen just doesn't have a spot on the 2nd line. Raymond, Cat, Kan and Tarasenko are ahead of him on the depth chart.

if a line has both tarasenko n kane on it that could b a lot of piano pulllin for compher or whoever the centre is

 

[Henkka]

if a line has both tarasenko n kane on it that could b a lot of piano pulllin for compher or whoever the centre is

I still think, somebody has to do Perron's piano pulling at 1st line.

And can't imagine anybody else there than Rasmussen.

Then DeBrincat will "fall" with Kane, and Compher pulls the piano there.

Berggren + Tarasenko would be nice to see as one winger pair, with maybe Copp pulling their piano.

Motte - Veleno - Fischer as 4th line.

Maybe try Veleno at 3rd. Who knows. Imo, we have now better options.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I wouldn't think he'd be able to take significant pressure off Seider right off the hop either. But I think (much) sooner than later, he's going to be the 2nd best dman on the team after Seider, if he isn't already. Considering we don't exactly have an embarrassment of riches on the defensive end at the moment, you're pretty well putting all your eggs in one basket if they're paired together.

While I do see some benefit of pairing them together, more so for Edvinsson than for Seider tbh, I think there's more benefit to splitting them up. After all, Seider can only be on the ice for 22-25 minutes on any given night anyway. So if we pair them together, that's 35-38 minutes of game time with some combination of Gustafsson, Chiarot, Petry, Maatta, and Holl on the ice. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Sure the top pair will be a beast, but any team with more than one top forward line like Toronto or Edmonton is going to feast on those bottom pairings. By splitting them up, if Seider is gassed you at least have Edvinsson's line you can deploy. And while he still obviously needs to acclimate to the NHL and continue improving, a 6'7 dman who skates like the wind with a good head on his shoulders is a very useful and versatile card to play even if still raw.

I also look at it from the standpoint of past experience. We had a young, highly pedigreed dman who entered the league a few years ago, and he was the de facto #1 dman within a matter of months. I don't have those expectations for Edvinsson per se, Seider was a unicorn in that regard. But Seider also stepped into the league in his D+3 season, while Edvinsson is stepping into a fulltime role in his D+4 season. They were/are both highly pedigreed, and that's for a reason. They're not the types who necessarily need sheltering. Sure there might be some growing pains to start, but I think Edvinsson would learn quickly, as Seider did, and he would be all the better for it in the long run. He was drafted 6th OA because he projects to be a big-game player, and he's excelled at every stop ever since his draft. So without any reason to doubt him, I say let him run the 2nd pairing and see how it works out. If he struggles and needs a little sheltering, then you can re-assess. But I think he'd do just fine in the role, and should have an opportunity to prove it one way or another.

A lot of fair points. I can see argument the other way too though. For example, having a pairing/line that can win matchups might be more valuable than everyone just playing to survive. Ideally we see both options in preseason and can shift between them during the season as needed.

 

[norrisnick]

I still think, somebody has to do Perron's piano pulling at 1st line.

And can't imagine anybody else there than Rasmussen.

Then DeBrincat will "fall" with Kane, and Compher pulls the piano there.

Berggren + Tarasenko would be nice to see as one winger pair, with maybe Copp pulling their piano.

Motte - Veleno - Fischer as 4th line.

Maybe try Veleno at 3rd. Who knows. Imo, we have now better options.

Perron was the piano on the top line. He wasn't pulling it.

 

[The Zermanator]

A lot of fair points. I can see argument the other way too though. For example, having a pairing/line that can win matchups might be more valuable than everyone just playing to survive. Ideally we see both options in preseason and can shift between them during the season as needed.

Yes, agreed. I think we want to get to a point where Edvinsson can carry his own pairing, whether that`s sooner or later. But there`ll always be the option to pair them together in specific situations where we need to stack the deck so to speak.

This will be even easier when ASP gets up to speed along with whatever other top 4 dman we end up with within the next couple years, whether that's someone internal like Johansson, Buium, or Wallinder, or an external acquisition. Fortunately we're already all but guaranteed to be 75% of the way to a monster top 4 within a few seasons, since it's hard to imagine both Edvinsson and ASP being anything worse than #2-3 dmen with what they've shown so far. Once we have that rounded out top 4 we'll be able to pair Seider and Edvinsson together without worrying about leaving the other pairing exposed. Or split them up and have two monster pairings.