Transfer: 2024 Summer Transfer Window - Closed Window Discussion

[Spring in Fialta]

There is no way United actually go down the Greenwood road.

Also if you are Greenwood, why come back? He would rightly destroyed by every fan base and media member for the rest of his career. My guess is he goes and plays where he can make some money and be out of that English spotlight.

It seems like United are taking a 'We'll see' approach and Greenwood is actually the one who's saying 'Eh, I'm not sure I want to do this again.'

It seems like United's preference would be to sell him but they're not ruling out him returning.

May just be some form of posturing to get a better price but I think going with anything else than 'he won't play in a United shirt again' to be ridiculous after the scandal they went through. Radcliffe's comments didn't come across as very aware given what we know already about the case.

 

[luiginb]

what do you mean they wouldn't take him back. If they think he will increase his value or win matches, they would take him back. They almost did it to start with.

they're already playing another alleged abuser.

I blame Arsenal for teams not caring about these kind of allegations anymore, when they just ignored the Partey issue.

 

[robertmac43]

Ottawa using their Madrid connections for this announcement.

 

[bluesfan94]

I blame Arsenal for teams not caring about these kind of allegations anymore, when they just ignored the Partey issue.

And before that, it was Bissouma. And before that, it was Ronaldo.

 

[Savant]

I blame Arsenal for teams not caring about these kind of allegations anymore, when they just ignored the Partey issue.

At this stage, I’m more interested with whichever club is going to be the ones to not ignore it. Basically Everton booting the pedo Sigurdsson is the only example of someone taking the high ground on this. It’s clear Arsenal and Utd do not have the gumption for it. I don’t want to point score on a topic this serious but Arteta’s visceral defense of TP on multiple occasions and Utd knowingly kicking the can on MG until new ownership are just so sickening

 

[robertmac43]

And before that, it was Bissouma. And before that, it was Ronaldo.

Bissouma was bought while under investigation.

 

[KJS14]

I blame Arsenal for teams not caring about these kind of allegations anymore, when they just ignored the Partey issue.

Buddy, who on Arsenal banged your girlfriend? Good lord. You can't go a day without badmouthing us in some shape or form.

I feel like we've had this conversation on this board a few dozen times, but I don't know how you can't see any difference in Greenwood's case (pictures of his girlfriend with bruises and audio that corroborated the events taking place) and Partey's case (allegations without any clear supporting evidence). There is nothing ambiguous about the Greenwood case - he assaulted his girlfriend, but she dropped the charges. On the other hand, the only supporting evidence in Partey's case are leaked messages that may or may not be fake, or may or may not be taken out of context.

Maybe Partey did what's been alleged. I'm not ruling it out, but we just don't know and probably never will. But we know for certain that Greenwood beat his girlfriend and got away with minimal repercussions.

At this stage, I’m more interested with whichever club is going to be the ones to not ignore it. Basically Everton booting the pedo Sigurdsson is the only example of someone taking the high ground on this. It’s clear Arsenal and Utd do not have the gumption for it. I don’t want to point score on a topic this serious but Arteta’s visceral defense of TP on multiple occasions and Utd knowingly kicking the can on MG until new ownership are just so sickening

As I said above, there's a difference in allegations and being clearly guilty but your girlfriend dropped the charges.

Man United bent over backwards for Greenwood, going as far as to say "based on the evidence available to us, we have concluded that the material posted online did not provide a full picture and that Mason did not commit the offences in respect of which he was originally charged" in a press release. That was disgusting. We can agree there.

To my knowledge, Arsenal and Arteta have not made any public statement about Partey's allegations. It's unfortunate to say that the best approach is to wait and see when there isn't clear evidence, but I don't know how you make the argument that preemptively punishing Partey for something that he may not have done is the right approach.

But yes, not all of our clubs can be as classy as Liverpool. They had the best moral standards and suspended Firmino after his DUI, right? Oh no. But they must have taken immediate action when Naby Keita was accused of rape by a woman then? Nope again.

 

[Savant]

Buddy, who on Arsenal banged your girlfriend? Good lord. You can't go a day without badmouthing us in some shape or form.
I feel like we've had this conversation on this board a few dozen times, but I don't know how you can't see any difference in Greenwood's case (pictures of his girlfriend with bruises and audio that corroborated the events taking place) and Partey's case (allegations without any clear supporting evidence). There is nothing ambiguous about the Greenwood case - he assaulted his girlfriend, but she dropped the charges. On the other hand, the only supporting evidence in Partey's case are leaked messages that may or may not be fake, or may or may not be taken out of context.

Maybe Partey did what's been alleged. I'm not ruling it out, but we just don't know and probably never will. But we know for certain that Greenwood beat his girlfriend and got away with minimal repercussions.


As I said above, there's a difference in allegations and being clearly guilty but your girlfriend dropped the charges.

Man United bent over backwards for Greenwood, going as far as to say "based on the evidence available to us, we have concluded that the material posted online did not provide a full picture and that Mason did not commit the offences in respect of which he was originally charged" in a press release. That was disgusting. We can agree there.

To my knowledge, Arsenal and Arteta have not made any public statement about Partey's allegations. It's unfortunate to say that the best approach is to wait and see when there isn't clear evidence, but I don't know how you make the argument that preemptively punishing Partey for something that he may not have done is the right approach.

But yes, not all of our clubs can be as classy as Liverpool. They had the best moral standards and suspended Firmino after his DUI, right? Oh no. But they must have taken immediate action when Naby Keita was accused of rape by a woman then? Nope again.

I mean we wouldn’t have to have this conversation if Arsenal cared more about who their players are banging would we?

I didn’t start this conversation. I’m just saying I’m uncomfortable with how Arteta has gone out of he was to defend and gas up TP.



What the headline doesn’t mention is Arteta saying how TP deserves success because of all that he’s being through; that’s gross. Both this and MG are gross and for different reasons. Arsenal fans and Arsenal as a club shouldn’t be pointing the finger at Utd saying “but what about MG”, they should take the lead, but all we hear about is how important TP is to the team. And they’ve kept him in house. I don’t know if I would call that better. I’m not going to point score on what is worth, apathy or talking about how great the guy under investigation is.

TP and MG are the two most recent high profile examples, both clubs had the chance to take the lead and make a stand against this, and neither did. That gives neither the right to point the finger at the other as far as I considered. Both are cowards.

I didn’t say my club has handled things perfectly, but I’ve never seen Klopp tell Des Kelly that Firmino or Keita deserved to rise from the ashes either. Not sure either of those players were playing not multiple bail extensions either.

 

[KJS14]

I mean we wouldn’t have to have this conversation if Arsenal cared more about who their players are banging would we?

I didn’t start this conversation. I’m just saying I’m uncomfortable with how Arteta has gone out of he was to defend and gas up TP.



What the headline doesn’t mention is Arteta saying how TP deserves success because of all that he’s being through; that’s gross. Both this and MG are gross and for different reasons. Arsenal fans and Arsenal as a club shouldn’t be pointing the finger at Utd saying “but what about MG”, they should take the lead, but all we hear about is how important TP is to the team. And they’ve kept him in house. I don’t know if I would call that better. I’m not going to point score on what is worth, apathy or talking about how great the guy under investigation is.

TP and MG are the two most recent high profile examples, both clubs had the chance to take the lead and make a stand against this, and neither did. That gives neither the right to point the finger at the other as far as I considered. Both are cowards.

If we completely ignore the differences between the two cases and just assume that Partey is guilty, then you'd have a point. If there was compelling evidence that indicated he was guilty, then I'd want him off the team, but there isn't that clear evidence like with Greenwood.

You're suggesting Arsenal should have suspended/released him just because he's being investigated for a crime. You'd keep him out of the team for the ~2 years that the investigation has gone on for (with no clear timeline on it) when he could just as well be innocent?

TP and MG are the two most recent high profile examples, both clubs had the chance to take the lead and make a stand against this, and neither did. That gives neither the right to point the finger at the other as far as I considered. Both are cowards.

I will certainly continue to point the finger at United, especially if they entertain bringing Mason Greenwood back. I'm not necessarily a "no second chances" guy, but Greenwood basically didn't face any consequences for his actions and showed no real remorse for it. And United provided validation to his BS escape of any legal consequences before ultimately giving in to backlash from fans.

I didn’t say my club has handled things perfectly, but I’ve never seen Klopp tell Des Kelly that Firmino or Keita deserved to rise from the ashes either. Not sure either of those players were playing not multiple bail extensions either.

You're acting like Arteta said "glad Thomas was able to finally put that whole rape thing behind him and rise to the occasion on the field today. He's one hell of a rehabilitation story."

If you want to crucify Arteta for saying that he's happy for his player's success because he's been training hard after recovering from injury, along with dealing with an off the field distraction (which Arteta has no reason to blindly assume he's guilty), then go ahead.

Meanwhile, Klopp was quoted saying "He was the best man in training — there was no chance to leave him out," less than a week after Firmino was arrested for DUI. Funny how that works.

Klopp: No way I'd have dropped Firmino for Stoke match

The Brazilian playmaker was arrested on suspicion of drink driving in the early hours of Christmas Eve in Liverpool city centre and has since been charged ahead of a court date on January 31.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Savant]

If we completely ignore the differences between the two cases and just assume that Partey is guilty, then you'd have a point. If there was compelling evidence that indicated he was guilty, then I'd want him off the team, but there isn't that clear evidence like with Greenwood.

You're suggesting Arsenal should have suspended/released him just because he's being investigated for a crime. You'd keep him out of the team for the ~2 years that the investigation has gone on for (with no clear timeline on it) when he could just as well be innocent?

Yes. That is what I would have suggested. He did that shit.

I will certainly continue to point the finger at United, especially if they entertain bringing Mason Greenwood back. I'm not necessarily a "no second chances" guy, but Greenwood basically didn't face any consequences for his actions and showed no real remorse for it. And United provided validation to his BS escape of any legal consequences before ultimately giving in to backlash from fans.


You're acting like Arteta said "glad Thomas was able to finally put that whole rape thing behind him and rise to the occasion on the field today. He's one hell of a rehabilitation story."

If you want to crucify Arteta for saying that he's happy for his player's success because he's been training hard after recovering from injury, along with dealing with an off the field distraction (which Arteta has no reason to blindly assume he's guilty), then go ahead.

I will. It’s gross.

Meanwhile, Klopp was quoted saying "He was the best man in training — there was no chance to leave him out," less than a week after Firmino was arrested for DUI. Funny how that works.

Klopp: No way I'd have dropped Firmino for Stoke match

The Brazilian playmaker was arrested on suspicion of drink driving in the early hours of Christmas Eve in Liverpool city centre and has since been charged ahead of a court date on January 31.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Firmino also accepted the charges, paid the fine and lost his license for a year. See the difference?

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I think the (pretty easy) conclusion is that most/all clubs are pretty lax when it comes to the (alleged or otherwise) crimes of their players in the service of winning. But even within that realm, Manchester United crossed that line, set it on fire and took it waaaaay too far (more than any other club) in a really disgusting and cynical way. And they don't really seem to have really learned their lesson there either.

 

[KJS14]

Firmino also accepted the charges, paid the fine and lost his license for a year. See the difference?

Yeah, he accepted the charges because a DUI generally has conclusive, irrefutable evidence. I'm sure the £20,000 fine (less than one week's pay) and losing his license for one year really made him become a better man. Thankfully his moronic actions didn't result in harm to anyone else.

 

[Chimaera]

Many clubs have faults in this. It’s hard to throw stones in glass houses. Until there’s a real punishment or backlash against clubs who keep playing these players, it’s going to continue.

 

[Savant]

Yeah, he accepted the charges because a DUI generally has conclusive, irrefutable evidence. I'm sure the £20,000 fine (less than one week's pay) and losing his license for one year really made him become a better man.

Yes he accepted the charges. Also, better man or not have there been any other DUI’s? At least there weren’t following incidents (to my knowledge anyway) Charles Barkley said it best, athletes aren’t role models.

Thankfully his moronic actions didn't result in harm to anyone else.

I mean look at Marcos Alonso. As long as the player is important no one cares. That’s why Arteta has been a meat shield for TP. If he was a third string guy or an academy guy, I doubt he’d be gassing him up. This is why Arteta is a part of the problem

 

[Savant]

Many clubs have faults in this. It’s hard to throw stones in glass houses. Until there’s a real punishment or backlash against clubs who keep playing these players, it’s going to continue.

People need to stop pointing fingers at trying to point score here. The onus is on the clubs to do the right thing here. Nothing changes if people just try to deflect onto what the other guys are doing. Fans need to take responsibility too

 

[Spring in Fialta]

People need to stop pointing fingers at trying to point score here. The onus is on the clubs to do the right thing here. Nothing changes if people just try to deflect onto what the other guys are doing. Fans need to take responsibility too

For someone who's been so adamant to cry about stuff like reffing and conspiracies against your club, you appear to be pretty much cheering on for your club to start doping itself up in a multiclub ownership (at the expense of other fans). So much about 'doing the right thing'.

I'm not sure I'd call it ironic but it's something.

 

[KJS14]

People need to stop pointing fingers at trying to point score here. The onus is on the clubs to do the right thing here. Nothing changes if people just try to deflect onto what the other guys are doing. Fans need to take responsibility too

I'm not trying to play "gotcha" or "point score" here. Rather, it seems that you're the one trying to do that by pointing at Man United and Arsenal as these disgusting clubs while shrugging off Liverpool and Klopp's previous handling of Firmino's DUI (which is still a very serious matter).

All I've tried to say is that it's hard to make judgement on Partey when it's not a clear cut case. The current landscape isn't great and unfortunately lends itself to fans not believing the women's accusations, but if we held the players accountable for any and all accusations (true or untrue), then that wouldn't be great either.

 

[Savant]

I'm not trying to play "gotcha" or "point score" here. Rather, it seems that you're the one trying to do that by pointing at Man United and Arsenal as these disgusting clubs while shrugging off Liverpool and Klopp's previous handling of Firmino's DUI (which is still a very serious matter).

I’m not shrugging it off. I’m saying that one player accepted charges and there weren’t any further issues; what else would you like to do here? No one is condoning DUI. You are comparing an incident where someone took responses for their actions to one where someone didn’t. That’s not the same to me. If you want to have the conversation about what’s better/worse/equal better different crimes, you can have it with someone else.

All I've tried to say is that it's hard to make judgement on Partey when it's not a clear cut case. The current landscape isn't great and unfortunately lends itself to fans not believing the women's accusations, but if we held the players accountable for any and all accusations (true or untrue), then that wouldn't be great either.

You’ve found the problem though. The only reason that this isn’t a clear cut case is the deck is unfairly stacked against the abused in these situations. There is a different between credible and not credible. There is a difference between innocent and not guilty. Again, no one would be standing up for TP if he wasn’t as talented as he is.

 

[Jussi]

I'm not trying to play "gotcha" or "point score" here. Rather, it seems that you're the one trying to do that by pointing at Man United and Arsenal as these disgusting clubs while shrugging off Liverpool and Klopp's previous handling of Firmino's DUI (which is still a very serious matter).

All I've tried to say is that it's hard to make judgement on Partey when it's not a clear cut case. The current landscape isn't great and unfortunately lends itself to fans not believing the women's accusations, but if we held the players accountable for any and all accusations (true or untrue), then that wouldn't be great either.

It was a fairly clear case. The victim posted his text messages online everywhere, where admitted to raping her (what a conversation, "sorry for raping you luv"). The only reason he wasn't charged was because the law that would have allowed it to proceed was not in place when it happened. The messages were posted her back then and several Arsenal fans here were disgusted at how he seemed to have gotten away with a technicality and the club not doing anything.

 

[phisherman]

 

[JeffreyLFC]

To be fair about this specific case. She did not pursued any legal action nor provided any evidence unlike other cases. It might be true or false but it's hard to go against somebody just by making a post on social media. Otherwise imagine the shit storm for all celebrities or politician facing these claims. I feel for her if it's true but by posting it on social media what was she was trying to accomplish exactly? It's the same laws for everybody, if she believed she was abused she should press charge and present her evidences.

 

[KJS14]

I’m not shrugging it off. I’m saying that one player accepted charges and there weren’t any further issues; what else would you like to do here? No one is condoning DUI. You are comparing an incident where someone took responses for their actions to one where someone didn’t. That’s not the same to me. If you want to have the conversation about what’s better/worse/equal better different crimes, you can have it with someone else.

You're saying one player accepted the charges as if Firmino had a choice in it. He was arrested for a DUI, which generally has conclusive, irrefutable evidence (breathalyzer or blood test). It's not as if he drove himself home buzzed/drunk and then turned himself in the next day because he felt compelled to do so. I'm glad that he seemingly learned a lesson from it and hasn't been a repeat offender to our knowledge, but I'm not going to pretend it was noble of him to accept the consequences of his actions when he was caught red handed.

I didn't compare the severity of the respective crimes/allegations. You said Klopp hadn't propped up his players like Arteta did with Partey, and I quite quickly found an example of him saying Firmino was undroppable 4 days after being arrested for DUI. I'm not keeping score, but rather pointing out that you're the one throwing stones in glass houses here.

You’ve found the problem though. The only reason that this isn’t a clear cut case is the deck is unfairly stacked against the abused in these situations. There is a different between credible and not credible. There is a difference between innocent and not guilty. Again, no one would be standing up for TP if he wasn’t as talented as he is.

I mean, yeah, it sucks that the reality is most of these cases don't have conclusive evidence and come down to a he said/she said debate. And that's true whether we're talking about Thomas Partey or some random college frat boy. The hard truth of it is that there has been enough public cases of false allegations against athletes, which unfortunately makes it harder for women who have been raped/assaulted to come forward. But I don't think it's any better to unfairly stack the deck against the accused and assume that everyone is guilty either.

As a fan, I'd rather not have a player even associated with such acts, but I can't fault the club for not suspending/releasing a player in the absence of clear evidence.

It was a fairly clear case. The victim posted his text messages online everywhere, where admitted to raping her (what a conversation, "sorry for raping you luv"). The only reason he wasn't charged was because the law that would have allowed it to proceed was not in place when it happened. The messages were posted her back then and several Arsenal fans here were disgusted at how he seemed to have gotten away with a technicality and the club not doing anything.

I think you have a very loose definition of "clear." The only supporting evidence (at least that I'm aware of) was those text messages / snapchat messages that the accuser leaked, which could very easily be faked or manipulated. I'm not claiming that they are indeed fake, but it's not as if law enforcement obtained those texts directly from a cell phone provider and we have certainty that they were sent by Partey. There is definitely a difference between that and the evidence available in the Greenwood case.

You can personally believe that he's guilty, but I don't think you have any better reason for thinking that than the people who believe he may be innocent.

 

[Savant]

You're saying one player accepted the charges as if Firmino had a choice in it. He was arrested for a DUI, which generally has conclusive, irrefutable evidence (breathalyzer or blood test). It's not as if he drove himself home buzzed/drunk and then turned himself in the next day because he felt compelled to do so. I'm glad that he seemingly learned a lesson from it and hasn't been a repeat offender to our knowledge, but I'm not going to pretend it was noble of him to accept the consequences of his actions when he was caught red handed.

I didn't compare the severity of the respective crimes/allegations. You said Klopp hadn't propped up his players like Arteta did with Partey, and I quite quickly found an example of him saying Firmino was undroppable 4 days after being arrested for DUI. I'm not keeping score, but rather pointing out that you're the one throwing stones in glass houses here.


I mean, yeah, it sucks that the reality is most of these cases don't have conclusive evidence and come down to a he said/she said debate. And that's true whether we're talking about Thomas Partey or some random college frat boy. The hard truth of it is that there has been enough public cases of false allegations against athletes, which unfortunately makes it harder for women who have been raped/assaulted to come forward. But I don't think it's any better to unfairly stack the deck against the accused and assume that everyone is guilty either.

As a fan, I'd rather not have a player even associated with such acts, but I can't fault the club for not suspending/releasing a player in the absence of clear evidence.


I think you have a very loose definition of "clear." The only supporting evidence (at least that I'm aware of) was those text messages / snapchat messages that the accuser leaked, which could very easily be faked or manipulated. I'm not claiming that they are indeed fake, but it's not as if law enforcement obtained those texts directly from a cell phone provider and we have certainty that they were sent by Partey. There is definitely a difference between that and the evidence available in the Greenwood case.

You can personally believe that he's guilty, but I don't think you have any better reason for thinking that than the people who believe he may be innocent.

Im not going to talk about this for another day.

The Firmino and Thomas situation are not the same. It’s really blind to not see the difference. Firmino didn’t play under an investigation. So I don’t see the glass houses thing. He admitted guilt, dealt with the punishment and went on with it. As I said I’m not going to compare crimes. I will compared being under investigation to not being under investigation

 

[Jussi]

I think you have a very loose definition of "clear." The only supporting evidence (at least that I'm aware of) was those text messages / snapchat messages that the accuser leaked, which could very easily be faked or manipulated. I'm not claiming that they are indeed fake, but it's not as if law enforcement obtained those texts directly from a cell phone provider and we have certainty that they were sent by Partey. There is definitely a difference between that and the evidence available in the Greenwood case.

You can personally believe that he's guilty, but I don't think you have any better reason for thinking that than the people who believe he may be innocent.

Summary of the victim's comments and messages she shared:

 

[KJS14]

Im not going to talk about this for another day.

The Firmino and Thomas situation are not the same. It’s really blind to not see the difference. Firmino didn’t play under an investigation. So I don’t see the glass houses thing. He admitted guilt, dealt with the punishment and went on with it. As I said I’m not going to compare crimes. I will compared being under investigation to not being under investigation

You've almost got it. Yes, they are not the same. Firmino was known to be guilty and faced no sporting punishment. Partey is under investigation and we don't know if he's guilty or innocent.