Killer Orcas
Registered User
If by some miracle we get Soto for 630 million over 14 does Rogers open the vault to sign players to put a supporting cast around him? I know probably pipe dream but what if rumors were willing to go 600 plus are real?
Blue Jays Discussion: 2024 Season - Complete without a great title in keeping with the performance
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Supposedly a Soto signing would come from a separate budget, similar to Ohtani.
I doubt we’d go full Yankees/Mets/Dodgers type spending spree, but we’d still be able to address the pitching staff.
trellaine201
Registered User
Could help if we try and lure a japanese player across the water to play for us.
There's No Way To Get Around Bonus Limits To Sign Roki Sasaki - Baseball America
The best analogy for what will happen during righthander Roki Sasaki’s offseason is to compare it to an old-school college recruiting visit before the days of NIL. Teams will be strictly limited in how much they can spend to sign Sasaki, and any team signing him will do so knowing that the contract is a mere fraction of what he’s worth on the open market.
So they can present all kind of facts about their pitching programs, their coaching staff, their city and why Sasaki would want to make their clubhouse his new home.
But when it comes to actual financial incentives, the restrictions are incredibly strict.
So whatever idea you have to circumvent the bonus limits, you can forget about them. The Collective Bargaining Agreement has already thought of whatever idea you have. And if you managed to come up with something they haven’t already thought about, they have written the CBA in a way to prevent that too.
1. What Happens If A Team Tries To Spend More Than Their Bonus Pool Allotment?
They can’t. MLB won’t allow the contract to be approved. Teams can trade for additional allotment up to 50% beyond their bonus pool limit, but that’s it. A dollar beyond their available bonus allotment and the contract isn’t approved.
It’s covered in Section B, paragraph 5 of the international amateur talent system in the CBA:
No Club may exceed its Signing Bonus Pool in any signing period. Any contract that would result in a Club exceeding its Signing Bonus Pool (including any additional Signing Bonus Pool space acquired via assignment from another Club) will not be approved by the Commissioner’s Office.
2. Can A Team Offer Sasaki An MLB Contract?
No.
If you are not a “foreign professional” you cannot sign a major league contract. A similar restriction now exists for draftees. It used to be that teams could sign draftees or international amateurs to major league contracts, which offered all kinds of benefits and higher salaries than players on MiLB contracts. But nowadays, that’s off limits.
This one is covered by Section D of the International Amateur System of the CBA.
All players subject to the Signing Bonus Pool system must sign a Minor League Uniform Player Contract.
5. Can A Team Start Working On An Extension To Replace His MiLB Deal?
Whatever team signs Sasaki may want to offer him an extension at some point, no such talks can be had in any way before he signs. Teams are prevented from:
Promising, representing, or committing to sign a player to another Minor League contract or a Major League contract in the future, or to provide additional compensation or benefits under the extant contract (such as a higher salary in future years of the Minor League contract).
The best analogy for what will happen during righthander Roki Sasaki’s offseason is to compare it to an old-school college recruiting visit before the days of NIL. Teams will be strictly limited in how much they can spend to sign Sasaki, and any team signing him will do so knowing that the contract is a mere fraction of what he’s worth on the open market.
So they can present all kind of facts about their pitching programs, their coaching staff, their city and why Sasaki would want to make their clubhouse his new home.
But when it comes to actual financial incentives, the restrictions are incredibly strict.
So whatever idea you have to circumvent the bonus limits, you can forget about them. The Collective Bargaining Agreement has already thought of whatever idea you have. And if you managed to come up with something they haven’t already thought about, they have written the CBA in a way to prevent that too.
1. What Happens If A Team Tries To Spend More Than Their Bonus Pool Allotment?
They can’t. MLB won’t allow the contract to be approved. Teams can trade for additional allotment up to 50% beyond their bonus pool limit, but that’s it. A dollar beyond their available bonus allotment and the contract isn’t approved.
It’s covered in Section B, paragraph 5 of the international amateur talent system in the CBA:
No Club may exceed its Signing Bonus Pool in any signing period. Any contract that would result in a Club exceeding its Signing Bonus Pool (including any additional Signing Bonus Pool space acquired via assignment from another Club) will not be approved by the Commissioner’s Office.
2. Can A Team Offer Sasaki An MLB Contract?
No.
If you are not a “foreign professional” you cannot sign a major league contract. A similar restriction now exists for draftees. It used to be that teams could sign draftees or international amateurs to major league contracts, which offered all kinds of benefits and higher salaries than players on MiLB contracts. But nowadays, that’s off limits.
This one is covered by Section D of the International Amateur System of the CBA.
All players subject to the Signing Bonus Pool system must sign a Minor League Uniform Player Contract.
5. Can A Team Start Working On An Extension To Replace His MiLB Deal?
Whatever team signs Sasaki may want to offer him an extension at some point, no such talks can be had in any way before he signs. Teams are prevented from:
Promising, representing, or committing to sign a player to another Minor League contract or a Major League contract in the future, or to provide additional compensation or benefits under the extant contract (such as a higher salary in future years of the Minor League contract).
phillipmike
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- Oct 27, 2009
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Blue Jays could play spoiler in Yankees-Mets Juan Soto sweepstakes
The field of suitors for megastar free agent Juan Soto is said to be narrowed now to eight finalists, but there’s one club in particular our two teams need to keep an eye on.
nypost.com
Heyman of all people.
Woodman19
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- Jun 14, 2008
- 18,564
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Oh look, Jays are in on a big Boras client we can eat up like candy.
Wonder what's going to inevitably happen and the reaction it incurs...
Wonder what's going to inevitably happen and the reaction it incurs...
stickty111
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- Jan 23, 2017
- 27,207
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I'm not falling for this Soto stuff again. If Ross does get him, I'll take back everything I ever said about him though.
MK78
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- Apr 8, 2023
- 2,473
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If the money is similar, why would Soto come to the Jays and maybe hope to make a wild card when he just went to the World Series?
Besides, they haven't even signed Vladdy yet. Why would he come here if there is a chance for Vladdy to walk or even be traded without knowing he's signed?
Besides, they haven't even signed Vladdy yet. Why would he come here if there is a chance for Vladdy to walk or even be traded without knowing he's signed?
A blueprint for the Blue Jays to get Vladimir Guerrero Jr. deal done | TSN.ca
Once with the agent, come in hot. Don’t play negotiating games of lowballing and looking to go back and forth seven or eight times. Lead with the fact that you are making him the highest-paid Blue Jay and the highest-paid first baseman ever.
The comparable players and contracts that are relevant in this negotiation are:
- Dodgers first baseman Freddie Freeman, who signed a six-year $162 million deal with the Dodgers in March of 2022. That is an annual average value of $27 million per year.
- Braves first baseman Matt Olson, who signed an eight-year deal for $168 million around the same time as Freeman. Olson’s AAV is $21 million per year but it included two arbitration years. Guerrero has one arbitration year remaining.
- Bryce Harper is now a first baseman, but was signed with the Philadelphia Phillies as an outfielder. At the age of 26 in 2019, Harper signed a 13-year deal for $330 million. His AAV is just over $25 million and is making $27.5 million this season.
I believe that Freeman and Harper are slightly better players than Guerrero, while he is better than Olson. But the fact that their contracts are a few years old needs to be acknowledged in any offer.
Guerrero is projected to make about $30 million in arbitration in 2025. In addition to the $30 million, I would offer another 11 years at $27 million (Freeman’s salary) per year for a total of $327 million. That’s more years than Freeman and a higher AAV ($27.25 million) than Harper and Freeman.
Sure, he is making more this year than the long-term AAV, but the length of the deal justifies the lower overall AAV. I would front-load the deal, paying him $30 million per year for the first six years of the deal and then have declining salaries thereafter. This contract would keep the Jays and Guerrero together through his age-37 season. It is a very aggressive first offer that would make him the highest-paid Blue Jay and first baseman ever.
Of course, Guerrero’s camp will want to negotiate, and I left some wiggle room to do so. The Jays can easily justify bumping the AAV closer to $30 million per year for the free-agent years. They can even consider adding another year on the deal, making it a 13-year deal that includes 12 free-agent seasons.
These long-term deals can feel cumbersome over the final few years, but it’s the price of doing business. Clubs make decisions in the time and space in which they find themselves. In this moment, this is the deal the Jays need to make, and they need to make it now so they have cost certainty moving forward and so they can show other free agents a long-term commitment to winning.
Once deal is done and the press conference is scheduled, send the private jet for Vladdy and his family to fly to Toronto. Leak to the media when the jet is arriving and tell Jays fans to welcome their hero and celebrate the long-term commitment. Who needs Ohtani anyway?
Once with the agent, come in hot. Don’t play negotiating games of lowballing and looking to go back and forth seven or eight times. Lead with the fact that you are making him the highest-paid Blue Jay and the highest-paid first baseman ever.
The comparable players and contracts that are relevant in this negotiation are:
- Dodgers first baseman Freddie Freeman, who signed a six-year $162 million deal with the Dodgers in March of 2022. That is an annual average value of $27 million per year.
- Braves first baseman Matt Olson, who signed an eight-year deal for $168 million around the same time as Freeman. Olson’s AAV is $21 million per year but it included two arbitration years. Guerrero has one arbitration year remaining.
- Bryce Harper is now a first baseman, but was signed with the Philadelphia Phillies as an outfielder. At the age of 26 in 2019, Harper signed a 13-year deal for $330 million. His AAV is just over $25 million and is making $27.5 million this season.
I believe that Freeman and Harper are slightly better players than Guerrero, while he is better than Olson. But the fact that their contracts are a few years old needs to be acknowledged in any offer.
Guerrero is projected to make about $30 million in arbitration in 2025. In addition to the $30 million, I would offer another 11 years at $27 million (Freeman’s salary) per year for a total of $327 million. That’s more years than Freeman and a higher AAV ($27.25 million) than Harper and Freeman.
Sure, he is making more this year than the long-term AAV, but the length of the deal justifies the lower overall AAV. I would front-load the deal, paying him $30 million per year for the first six years of the deal and then have declining salaries thereafter. This contract would keep the Jays and Guerrero together through his age-37 season. It is a very aggressive first offer that would make him the highest-paid Blue Jay and first baseman ever.
Of course, Guerrero’s camp will want to negotiate, and I left some wiggle room to do so. The Jays can easily justify bumping the AAV closer to $30 million per year for the free-agent years. They can even consider adding another year on the deal, making it a 13-year deal that includes 12 free-agent seasons.
These long-term deals can feel cumbersome over the final few years, but it’s the price of doing business. Clubs make decisions in the time and space in which they find themselves. In this moment, this is the deal the Jays need to make, and they need to make it now so they have cost certainty moving forward and so they can show other free agents a long-term commitment to winning.
Once deal is done and the press conference is scheduled, send the private jet for Vladdy and his family to fly to Toronto. Leak to the media when the jet is arriving and tell Jays fans to welcome their hero and celebrate the long-term commitment. Who needs Ohtani anyway?
Woodman19
Registered User
- Jun 14, 2008
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Yeah I dont think we are spending $1.1 Billion combined for Guerrero and Soto
jetsforever
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- Dec 14, 2013
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Would be pretty nice if there was actual fire beneath all this FA smoke for once...
Dr.Funk
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- Jul 2, 2004
- 19,953
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Has the plane tracking started yet?
I'd imagine, or at least like to think, that the two would be done in conjunction.
Killer Orcas
Registered User
Yeah never know the Rogers 5.2 Billion NHL deal is over after 25/26 and has been a huge money losing deal. They might shift some of those dollars towards the Jays now. Would be smart to invest in Jays as everyone knows they need to sell seats after spending on those renovations and the people will fill it for a winner.
tmlfan98
No More Excuses #MarnerOut
Suntouchable13
Registered User
Hopefully it's only Click and Shapiro who are doing most of the talking in that meeting with Soto. Atkins needs to sit these things out.
I would rather management offer a 1 year deal to Ross Stripling than offer a big contract to some of the names they've been rumored around in the starting market.
Obviously Sasaki is the dream, but none of what he is looking for suggests that Toronto is even a consideration.
Toronto needs to wrap up a Vlad deal and should be pushing hard for Soto.
The other very big consideration is that paying a couple of more expensive bullpen arms to provide some top end (add a Scott and a Hoffman and suddenly you have 3-4 very good arms at the back end of the bullpen).
If Alonso proves too rich, Christian Walker could be a discount Alonso on a shorter term. But if neither of those two make sense, then you could dip into the "what can my depth acquire" market to see what you can find.
Obviously Sasaki is the dream, but none of what he is looking for suggests that Toronto is even a consideration.
Toronto needs to wrap up a Vlad deal and should be pushing hard for Soto.
The other very big consideration is that paying a couple of more expensive bullpen arms to provide some top end (add a Scott and a Hoffman and suddenly you have 3-4 very good arms at the back end of the bullpen).
If Alonso proves too rich, Christian Walker could be a discount Alonso on a shorter term. But if neither of those two make sense, then you could dip into the "what can my depth acquire" market to see what you can find.
trellaine201
Registered User
I think Clemens was our biggest FA ever 
there are a few others close BUT for me this has been the Jays biggest FA. Jack Morris was pretty big too.
there are a few others close BUT for me this has been the Jays biggest FA. Jack Morris was pretty big too.
If the Jays really value defence it seems unlikely they would sign Alonso or Walker since it would mean either putting Horwitz at 2B or Vlad at 3B to open up a spot at DH/1B. And I don’t think we’re in a position to trade away a low cost bat like Horwitz.
I wouldn’t be against putting Horwitz at 2B though if it meant getting a big bat like Walker or Alonso but I highly doubt Atkins would do it.
Suntouchable13
Registered User
IF, for example, the Athletics ask for Horwitz to be included in a package for Rooker, he gone.
At least in Walker's case you would be at least partly balancing out the downgrade of having Vlad at 3B or Horwitz at 2B by adding arguably the best defensive 1B in the league.
Yes he was. Then the year jays got burnett and ryan was big. That team wpuld have made the playoffs if the wildcard teams were in play thenI think Clemens was our biggest FA ever
Also, of 88 3B with at least 100 innings, Vlad was 47th in Defense (and positive which suggests that he would be higher on the list with more innings).
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