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Blue Jays Discussion: 2024 Season - Complete without a great title in keeping with the performance

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hockeywiz542

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Ross Atkins: 'Easy no' on trading Bo Bichette, left-handed hitting and bullpen help on radar | TSN

Toronto Blue Jays general manager Ross Atkins shut down the idea of trading Bo Bichette on Tuesday, despite the shortstop potentially hitting unrestricted free agency next year.
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Blue Jays' Off-Season Wish List

Speaking at the MLB general managers meeting, Atkins pointed to relief pitching as a top priority for the team to upgrade this winter.

"We want to improve our pitching, improve our offence (and) build upon a team that we feel is a good one, is in a good starting position," Atkins said. "We need to improve our bullpen. That is the clear area of opportunity for us, but really excited about the energy here and our opportunity to get better."

Atkins also told Jordan Bastian of MLB Network on Tuesday that the Blue Jays are not looking to add a catcher this off-season, with their focus elsewhere.

Toronto traded catcher Danny Jansen this season, but still have Alejandro Kirk, Taylor Heineman and Nick Raposo on their 40-man roster.

Atkins also noted that Gold Glove centrefielder Daulton Varsho may not be ready for Opening Day after undergoing shoulder surgery and declined to comment on the team's potential pursuit of New York Yankees slugger Juan Soto as he hits free agency this winter.
 

TheTotalPackage

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Blitzkrug said:
Makes sense.

Go into the season expecting a bounceback/return to the playoffs.

If that doesn't work out and you're legitimately out of the picture by after the all-star break, then you probably reconsider heading into the deadline.

Nothing wrong with that.
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True. Only problem being is that you are either selling an already depressed asset at a fraction of what he should be able to get if he has another poor year, or you still are likely to sell low even if he has a bounceback year based on the fact that each passing day he is one day closer to free agency.

All this being said, I'd rather prioritize re-signing him and Vladdy this offseason and building the team into the future around them as has been the intention all along.
 

Discoverer

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Dr.Funk said:
https://x.com/i/web/status/1853890583607361680

I'm comfortable with Clement and Wagner at 3rd and 2nd.
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Yeah, I think OF is the best fit.

Clement looked really good last year, but I don't hate the idea of adding a 3B and having Clement fill in everywhere as a super-utility guy. We always talk about having that player, but they've always been either mediocre defenders who can't play SS or useless with the bat. As a fantastic defender with a close-to-league-average bat, Clement is perfect for a utility role.
 
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tmlfan98

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Discoverer said:
Yeah, I think OF is the best fit.

Clement looked really good last year, but I don't hate the idea of adding a 3B and having Clement fill in everywhere as a super-utility guy. We always talk about having that player, but they've always been either mediocre defenders who can't play SS or useless with the bat. As a fantastic defender with a close-to-league-average bat, Clement is perfect for a utility role.
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I don't think there's going to be enough in the budget to add a starting 3B upgrade on Clement.

The top priorities for the FO seem to be a starting LF, and a SP (this is a priority for them because they would upgrade the rotation and pen at the same time with YRod getting bumped down to a swingman role).

Considering they could only have $40M total to spend, and they still have to fill out the rest of the pen, getting a 3B who's better than Clement on top of that seems unlikely.
 
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Bjindaho

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Imo, we pursue Soto heavily with Alonso as a fallback plan offensively. Plan C should be trade.

If Sasaki is posted, Toronto needs to be bidding to win. He's a top of the rotation starter and young.

If you can't get Sasaki, I think trade is the best option.

The bullpen needs arms via multiple avenues. If Romano is kept, they need at least one more BP signing for the back end. They should trade for someone about to price a current club out or two then scrounge.
 
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Suntouchable13

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They keep talking about wanting to contend in 2025, but then only have 20-25M to spend. Huh? I just don’t understand with this team and ownership group. It all sucks, quite frankly.
 
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tmlfan98

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Suntouchable13 said:
They keep talking about wanting to contend in 2025, but then only have 20-25M to spend. Huh? I just don’t understand with this team and ownership group. It all sucks, quite frankly.
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The $25M number is coming from Shi Davidi, who IMO made a bad guess here. He conservatively guessed using Fangraphs payroll estimates, that the Jays opening day CBT payroll will be $235M because Shapiro said payroll isn't changing much, and the Jays ended 2024 with a $235M CBT payroll.

But in reality, the last 2 seasons in a row the Jays have had an opening day CBT payroll of $250M. Safer guess would probably be that they have $40M to spend, and will once again have an opening day CBT payroll of $250M for a 3rd straight season.
 
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Suntouchable13

Suntouchable13

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tmlfan98 said:
The $25M number is coming from Shi Davidi, who IMO made a bad guess here. He conservatively guessed using Fangraphs payroll estimates, that the Jays opening day CBT payroll will be $235M because Shapiro said payroll isn't changing much, and the Jays ended 2024 with a $235M CBT payroll.

But in reality, the last 2 seasons in a row the Jays have had an opening day CBT payroll of $250M. Safer guess would probably be that they have $40M to spend, and will once again have an opening day CBT payroll of $250M for a 3rd straight season.
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Thanks. The path forward is to spend in order to improve. There are not a ton of trade chips. So the 20-25M numbers being reported do not make sense. So I hope you're right.
 

Bjindaho

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Suntouchable13 said:
Thanks. The path forward is to spend in order to improve. There are not a ton of trade chips. So the 20-25M numbers being reported do not make sense. So I hope you're right.
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There are ways to make it to contender.

The biggest issue IMO is the front office.

Owen Caissie is reportedly going to be made available by CHC because of lack of path to playing time. He'd be an excellent target.

There are always bullpen arms that can be had for very little.

The question comes down to identifying and executing.
 
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tmlfan98

tmlfan98

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Suntouchable13 said:
Thanks. The path forward is to spend in order to improve. There are not a ton of trade chips. So the 20-25M numbers being reported do not make sense. So I hope you're right.
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It's literally not even a report, it's just speculation from Shi Davidi. He even admitted as much and also acknowledged that it could be based on "opening day" and not "year end" like I said:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1854196432380858613

Based on the Jays spending patterns the last 2 seasons while they've been a tax paying club, a $250M opening day CBT payroll for the 3rd straight season is a way safer guess than a $235M opening day CBT payroll based on the Jays' 2024 year end payroll

Year end payroll was only that low because they wanted to duck the tax at the deadline and re-set their CBT penalties heading into next season. The Jays are now a 1st year tax paying club again instead of a 3rd year repeater which is what they would have been.

I almost wonder if Shi put out that overly conservative estimate on purpose to try and make the FO look good when they inevitably end up spending more than $25M.
 
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Discoverer

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tmlfan98 said:
It's literally not even a report, it's just speculation from Shi Davidi. He even admitted as much and also acknowledged that it could be based on "opening day" and not "year end" like I said:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1854196432380858613

Based on the Jays spending patterns the last 2 seasons while they've been a tax paying club, a $250M opening day CBT payroll for the 3rd straight season is a way safer guess than a $235M opening day CBT payroll based on the Jays' 2024 year end payroll

Year end payroll was only that low because they wanted to duck the tax at the deadline and re-set their CBT penalties heading into next season. The Jays are now a 1st year tax paying club again instead of a 3rd year repeater which is what they would have been.

I almost wonder if Shi put out that overly conservative estimate on purpose to try and make the FO look good when they inevitably end up spending more than $25M.
Click to expand...
I remember Davidi reporting in late October/early November, 2012, that the Jays payroll for 2013 would increase to somewhere in the $90-100 million range. Within two weeks, they blew past that number with the Marlins trade and ended up closer to $130 million.

That's not to suggest the same thing is happening here at all - I just don't think any reporter really knows what it's going to be.
 
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phillipmike

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The JD Bunkis Podcast

JD Bunkis breaks down the biggest stories in sports every weekday morning. Airing live on Sportsnet 590 The FAN from 9-11AM ET.
www.sportsnet.ca

You hear different things about how their winter might go... some people say that it might be very tight for the Jays this offseason... though other people saying that they splash out, all speculation

They have ~25 mil to play with unless they shed salary

Ben adds that non tendering relievers would be a way to add salary to the budget

Bassitt for example you might not able to get rid of all of the contract

They're giving consideration to non tendering Swanson

Tate is very likely to be non tendered in BNS's opinion

If the Jays are going to spend big on a pitcher, it's going to be a starter

Doubts they'll add an 9 figure player

He does think that they're in on top guys, ranked top 20 on the MLBTR rankings

Mentions Sasaki will be posted, probably Dodgers bound

Wouldn't be surprising at all if they add a Torres/Walker type of player

Someone told BNS that they wonder if Max Fried is their top target

Jays are aiming higher than Kikuchi if they can, more he talks to people in the industry, they'd like to add a starter

They want Yariel in the bullpen

More likely that they get a decent starter, (not a high level quality one) sign Walker etc and get a ~7 mil reliever

Horwitz has trade value, gotta be able to listen

He doesn't think that anyone is waiting on Soto (regarding a possible Vlad extension)
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