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Blue Jays Discussion: 2024 Season - Complete without a great title in keeping with the performance

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GoonieFace

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tmlfan98 said:
First of all Bassitt never outright said "I don't think there are structural issues in the org" so that one isn't a summarization, it's from Zwelling himself.

Second of all, Bassitt nor anyone else cannot say with a straight face that pivoting from Ohtani to Justin Turner and IKF (while not seriously pursuing Joc Pederson or JD Martinez for DH, and a reunion with Chapman at 3B) demonstrates ambition from the FO. It's absolutely laughable.

IKF was the opposite of ambitious, a high floor no ceiling addition who they blew other offers out of the water to get, but still came cheaper than Chapman and also allowed them to make the mistake of overpaying KK to bring him back at 10.5M. Shatkins got lucky he blew his projections out of the water during his short stint here. Selling high on him even though he was under team control in 2025 at a position of need while they are still saying they want to compete next year says a lot in that regard.

What's also laughable was having Turner higher on their DH free agent target list than 2 clearly superior hitters vs RHP in Joc and JDM because Turner is an everyday DH with the versatility to occasionally spot start in the infield, while Joc is only a strong side platoon guy and JDM is a DH-only who cannot play anywhere in the field. Nevermind the fact that RHPs make up roughly 75% of MLB pitchers. Shatkins couldn't even be "ambitious" enough to allocate anything more than 2M to a DH-only type.
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Signing Chapman would have been a mistake, plus he wanted to be on the west coast. Maybe Joc didn’t want to be here either, you have no idea who they pursued and who they didn’t
 
tmlfan98

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GoonieFace said:
Signing Chapman would have been a mistake, plus he wanted to be on the west coast. Maybe Joc didn’t want to be here either, you have no idea who they pursued and who they didn’t
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Chapman put up 3.9 fWAR his first season as a Jay, 3.1 last season and 4 so far this season. In what world would re-signing a 3-4 fWAR 3B to a contract that didn't even end up being an overpayment at all, like many fans were anticipating, have been a mistake?

Plus the last offer they made to Chapman was extending him a QO, and they quickly pivoted to other 3B options months before he signed with the Giants. It's not like the Jays maintained serious interest until the end only for Chapman to decide he preferred the west coast.

Also, from Joc Pederson himself: Diamondbacks' Joc Pederson: Blue Jays had interest, but 'didn’t want me as bad'
 
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trellaine201

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I guess the Jays have no interest in moving Vlady back to 3B in the future? IMO with this season lost they should play him there everyday and evaluate at season’s end.
 

canucksfan

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tmlfan98 said:
First of all Bassitt never outright said "I don't think there are structural issues in the org" so that one isn't a summarization, it's from Zwelling himself.

Second of all, Bassitt nor anyone else cannot say with a straight face that pivoting from Ohtani to Justin Turner and IKF (while not seriously pursuing Joc Pederson or JD Martinez for DH, and a reunion with Chapman at 3B) demonstrates ambition from the FO. It's absolutely laughable.

IKF was the opposite of ambitious, a high floor no ceiling addition who they blew other offers out of the water to get, but still came cheaper than Chapman and also allowed them to make the mistake of overpaying KK to bring him back at 10.5M. Shatkins got lucky he blew his projections out of the water during his short stint here. Selling high on him even though he was under team control in 2025 at a position of need while they are still saying they want to compete next year says a lot in that regard.

What's also laughable was having Turner higher on their DH free agent target list than 2 clearly superior hitters vs RHP in Joc and JDM because Turner is an everyday DH with the versatility to occasionally spot start in the infield, while Joc is only a strong side platoon guy and JDM is a DH-only who cannot play anywhere in the field. Nevermind the fact that RHPs make up roughly 75% of MLB pitchers. Shatkins couldn't even be "ambitious" enough to allocate anything more than 2M to a DH-only type.
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It was somewhat of a leap by Arden in regards to structural issues but I think that was a response to the reaction on Social Media. To me, the unfixable issues wouldn't be personnel among management. I was thinking more of a Canadian market or playing in the AL East but he highlights what I have been saying. The starting pitching is getting up there and might not be as good next year due to age.

Compared to Ohtani there wasn't much of a pivot. I don't think they had the assets for Soto. Now Atkins didn't have a good offseason at all and I agree with what you said in the remaining paragraphs. I could see Chris and others being pissed by the lack of signings/trades but he didn't outright say it.

Even if they did get Ohtani, they still wouldn't be in a playoff spot because the bullpen sucked and the starting pitching has regressed a lot.
 

Discoverer

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I think the front office completely botched the offseason, but I can't see offering Ohtani $700 million as anything other than ambitious.
 
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tmlfan98

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canucksfan said:
It was somewhat of a leap by Arden in regards to structural issues but I think that was a response to the reaction on Social Media.
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Exactly, which is why I originally said in an earlier post that Arden's thread reeks of a Rogers employee desperately trying to run damage control and deflect from the real problems by directly stating the opposite (aka "the problems are not the problems").

canucksfan said:
Compared to Ohtani there wasn't much of a pivot. I don't think they had the assets for Soto.
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And whose fault is that? Are we still blaming AA nine years later for the org lacking in assets?
 

canucksfan

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tmlfan98 said:
Exactly, which is why I originally said in an earlier post that Arden's thread reeks of a Rogers employee desperately trying to run damage control and deflect from the real problems by directly stating the opposite (aka "the problems are not the problems").


And whose fault is that? Are we still blaming AA nine years later for the org lacking in assets?
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I would say Arden took a minor leap there and summarized the rest of what Bassitt. Again, I think that was more of a response to Social Media.

I am not defending Atkins at all. I've said it many times, he needs to go.
 

Discoverer

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New Hampshire has a double header today (I think this afternoon's is finishing a game they started earlier) and McAdoo has a HR, two doubles, and a walk in game one.

When the trade happened, I thought of him as a bit old for his level and assumed maybe that was holding his prospect status back. That applies to Schreck, but McAdoo is 22 and destroying AA pitching.
 
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canucksfan

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Discoverer said:
New Hampshire has a double header today (I think this afternoon's is finishing a game they started earlier) and McAdoo has a HR, two doubles, and a walk in game one.

When the trade happened, I thought of him as a bit old for his level and assumed maybe that was holding his prospect status back. That applies to Schreck, but McAdoo is 22 and destroying AA pitching.
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Nice oppo home run.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1826010705155469470

https://x.com/i/web/status/1826008703272890652
 
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TheMadHatTrick

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aingefan

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Discoverer said:
New Hampshire has a double header today (I think this afternoon's is finishing a game they started earlier) and McAdoo has a HR, two doubles, and a walk in game one.

When the trade happened, I thought of him as a bit old for his level and assumed maybe that was holding his prospect status back. That applies to Schreck, but McAdoo is 22 and destroying AA pitching.
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Both guys just drafted last year as seniors. Both should be in AAA to start next year. That keeps the shine on their prospect status for now imo.
trellaine201 said:
Whats up with Wagner? 26 already? Was he stuck behind someone in Houston? Late bloomer? Keeper? Everyday player?
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Like many of the acquisitions at the deadline, he was drafted as a college senior.
Played ~ a year at each level in a deep system in a winning organization that didn’t have a lot of holes.
He can hit, but doesn’t have tons of power, and isn’t magical at any defensive positions.
He’s a good bet to a platoon bat mix and match on D (like Horwitz/Schneider/OMart) in competition with a handful of guys going into next year.
 
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aingefan

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TheMadHatTrick said:
Roden 2-3 on Thursday with 2 rbi and a bb. Now up to .280AVG with an .826OPS after an awful May and June (.724 OPS).

Hitting .284/.376/.440 in the second half of the year.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1826052586367000961
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I’m gonna have to check his splits, but man, his season is really coming together.
Edit to add: ops over 770 v. lhp, slg heavy in ~80ab is nothing to sniff at
The Jays seem to have created a next mini-wave for 26ish.
 
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aingefan

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canucksfan said:
I was checking in on Dunedin and Gage Stanifer(don't recognize the name but drafted out of high school in 2022) was starting for the Jays and he did fairly well. He was sitting around 95MPH and touching 97. Only 20 years old
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Nice.
There’s cool arms lower in the system.
Two kids wrecking the DSL might be worth following.
And my personal favorite, lefty Kai Peterson. Drafted in the 20th (!) round last year. I know nothing about him really, but check out those K numbers.
 

canucksfan

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aingefan said:
Nice.
There’s cool arms lower in the system.
Two kids wrecking the DSL might be worth following.
And my personal favorite, lefty Kai Peterson. Drafted in the 20th (!) round last year. I know nothing about him really, but check out those K numbers.
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He looks like a potential solid reliever. Great SO numbers.

Despite the injuries, it does appear the Jays have improved the drafting/development of pitchers. Having the training facility in Dunedin probably helps a lot.
 
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