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Blue Jays Discussion: 2024 Season - Complete without a great title in keeping with the performance

WeThreeKings

WeThreeKings

Demidov is a HAB
Sep 19, 2006
95,398
106,536
Halifax
Discoverer said:
Regressing to the mean means players in their mid-20s bouncing back to career norms rather than continuing to decline. That's a completely normal expectation in baseball, and that's why projections had the offense rebounding somewhat.

I don't disagree on the coaching aspect of it, but the sample size was one year in that regard... it could have been coaching, it could have been the players, or it could have been (to some extent, at least) a fluke. That's why I think Mattingly is such a huge problem with this team: guys who are 24-28ish shouldn't just be falling off a cliff. That's not normal.
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Yeah I get why the projections did - but that's kind of the fault with this management group, they are making their decisions based on what might be expected without doing a good job of evaluating whether or not the conditions are there for that to happen.

We've had enough of a sample size that the hitting coaches with the major league team isn't good enough but they doubled down on it, so expecting that type of regression was another statistical analysis flaw. Especially with Vladdy coming to a decision point, you owe it to yourself as an organization to eliminate whether or not the hitting coach is an active road block to success.. Vladdy has been better this year but the power should be showing up and it just hasn't since that one year. I don't know how you don't at least give Hague the shot, the Buffalo boys always show up better prepared to hit.
 

Discoverer

Registered User
Apr 11, 2012
11,243
6,601
WeThreeKings said:
Yeah I get why the projections did - but that's kind of the fault with this management group, they are making their decisions based on what might be expected without doing a good job of evaluating whether or not the conditions are there for that to happen.

We've had enough of a sample size that the hitting coaches with the major league team isn't good enough but they doubled down on it, so expecting that type of regression was another statistical analysis flaw. Especially with Vladdy coming to a decision point, you owe it to yourself as an organization to eliminate whether or not the hitting coach is an active road block to success.. Vladdy has been better this year but the power should be showing up and it just hasn't since that one year. I don't know how you don't at least give Hague the shot, the Buffalo boys always show up better prepared to hit.
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I completely agree with giving Hague more of a chance. Even a veteran like Springer seemed to completely turn it around at the exact time we started seeing them together on the bench all the time.

I'm not too down on Martinez as a hitting coach because he was also here during the best years for most of these guys and when Teoscar and Gurriel broke out and Semien had his huge bounceback year. I really feel like Mattingly is the problem.

Fire Atkins. Fire Mattingly. Probably fire Schneider at this point. Start there and then work on improving the team once you have an effective leadership group in place.
 

francis246

Registered User
Nov 16, 2007
14,437
17,855
shaner8989 said:
Lmao f***ing disgraceful losers. wtf is this shit. Another pos who can’t hit….. for the a top reliever.

f*** the jays seriously.
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22 Switch Hitting Outfield, doesn’t have the best numbers but who knows. He’s only 22 and if he’s good defensively you can work on the bat. I doubt the market was hot. Probably weren’t going to get a better deal than this.
 

hockeywiz542

Registered User
May 26, 2008
16,183
5,250
Mariners Top Prospect Rankings - 2024 - MLB.com

Jonatan Clase

OF, Seattle Mariners

AGE: 22

BATS: S

DOB: 05/23/2002

THROWS: R

HT: 5' 10"

SIGNED: July 2, 2018 - SEA

WT: 150

ETA: 2024

Scouting grades: Hit: 45 | Power: 45 | Run: 70 | Arm: 40 | Field: 50 | Overall: 45

Clase has long been touted as the fastest runner in Seattle’s system, and he supported that designation with a historic 2023, when he stole 79 bases in 94 attempts between High-A Everett and Double-A Arkansas to pair with 20 homers. He became the first player since records began tracking in 1961 to have a 20-70 season in the Minors. It was perhaps a result of Clase finally being consistently healthy after dealing with multiple injuries, albeit minor and more nagging, in recent years. The obvious question after is, what’s next for the 2018 signee out of the Dominican Republic?

A dip in production after the promotion shows that he’ll need to continue mastering Double-A and Arkansas’ very pitcher-friendly ballpark, as his OPS dipped from 1.154 to .727 between the affiliates. Yet despite his 5-foot-9 frame, the power appears legitimate, leading to great intrigue on what his overall hit tool will look like when he’s fully developed. Maintaining a sound approach and not selling out for power and getting away from his best abilities will also be vital.

Speed will always be Clase’s calling card, and coupling those wheels with improved route running should allow him to play center field in the Majors on days where Julio Rodriguez needs a break. His floor over the next 18-24 months might be in the neighborhood of Taylor Trammell, who hasn’t yet established himself in the Majors but has shown flashes. And his ceiling would be an everyday player who might give up a little in the batting average department but makes up for it by drawing walks and running into some power while playing good defense.
 

aingefan

Registered User
Feb 27, 2008
5,186
2,953
Clase sounds like an exciting top of the order bat with some pop, speed to burn that he uses as a sh!tdisturber on the base paths. I like it.
Keep ‘em coming, resign Yimi in the winter (nudge nudge wink wink).
Edit to add: C Jacob Sharp also in the deal, good college resume having an okay start to his pro career.
 
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Canada4Gold

Canada4Gold

Registered User
Dec 22, 2010
43,046
9,232
Seems decent. The Jays haven't had a real speed guy highly ranked in the system since Gose and that didn't go so well. Would be nice if his bat could play so he ends up being a starter rather than a 1 trick bench pony but time will tell
 
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LaP

LaP

Registered User
Jun 27, 2012
26,142
20,355
Quebec City, Canada
Looks like a good return to me. Will need 2-3 other trades like that though to replenish the system. Kikuchi is certainly gone? They should trade Jansen too i like him but i doubt his new deal will age well.
 
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aingefan

Registered User
Feb 27, 2008
5,186
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Could use a lefty catcher on the cusp, then pitching pitching pitching.

Need to get the kids hitting at the ML level. And most of the vets back to their best, too

Springer, Vladdy, Varsho and Bo are locks unless moved. Kiner-Falafa, too.

Horwitz is hitting just fine.

Kirk has some history. Schneider, is he for real? Clement, Jimenez, Barger, Clase. Orelvis.

Clase-Varsho-Springer, with Barger and Schneider in the mix.
Kiner-Falafa-Bo-Jimenez-Vladdy, with Horwitz, Clement, Orelvis.
Kirk and his lefty partner tbd.
 
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Mike Jones

Registered User
Apr 12, 2007
12,638
3,054
Calgary
I had to look up both players but they both seem to address long term needs for the Jays.

It would have been interesting to see the Jays acquire Paxton from LA. He could have filled a spot on the starting rotation for the rest of the season and perhaps even re-sign for 2025. He would make a decent veteran presence if the Jays are going through a full rebuild.
 

Discoverer

Registered User
Apr 11, 2012
11,243
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Mike Jones said:
I had to look up both players but they both seem to address long term needs for the Jays.

It would have been interesting to see the Jays acquire Paxton from LA. He could have filled a spot on the starting rotation for the rest of the season and perhaps even re-sign for 2025. He would make a decent veteran presence if the Jays are going through a full rebuild.
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He's going to get absolutely destroyed in Boston. Strikeouts and walks have both been awful this year... the only thing he has going for him this year is that he's kept the homeruns relatively in check compared to recent years, but I doubt Fenway does him any favours there.
 
dredeye

dredeye

BJ Elitist/Hipster
Mar 3, 2008
27,414
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Return seems good not great for Garcia. Love the speed. Hopefully, the bat plays as he moves up. Good numbers in AAA
 
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Mike Jones

Registered User
Apr 12, 2007
12,638
3,054
Calgary
Discoverer said:
He's going to get absolutely destroyed in Boston. Strikeouts and walks have both been awful this year... the only thing he has going for him this year is that he's kept the homeruns relatively in check compared to recent years, but I doubt Fenway does him any favours there.
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I didn't think he was going to be a miracle worker but someone who could at least manage six innings every time through the starting rotation. Every rebuilding team needs cheap veterans around to fill some holes on the roster and provide some leadership here and there.

Ale Brew said:
It’s a Morosi rumour, says the Phil’s are targeting him. Take that for what it’s worth.
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Seems more like a Yankee guy. They're not afraid of trading minor leaguers for veterans when they need to.
 
dredeye

dredeye

BJ Elitist/Hipster
Mar 3, 2008
27,414
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Mike Jones said:
I didn't think he was going to be a miracle worker but someone who could at least manage six innings every time through the starting rotation. Every rebuilding team needs cheap veterans around to fill some holes on the roster and provide some leadership here and there.


Seems more like a Yankee guy. They're not afraid of trading minor leaguers for veterans when they need to.
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I've heard yankees a couple times linked to Green. Former yank with control on a decent deal pitching lights out. Tiks a lot of boxes for them.
 
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