Blue Jays Discussion: 2024 Season - Complete without a great title in keeping with the performance

[canucksfan]

Yeah it has been a pretty horrific year on the farm, which makes the year at the major league level hurt a tad more. Bonilla having a 35% K rate in the FCL with no power as a 4+ million signing isn't exactly great either. The farm is about as bare as I can remember it in atleast the last 10ish years at all levels.

Forgot about his struggles.

Looking at their top 10 prospects on MLB.com, they are either injured or have played below expectations. I could be wrong, but very few if any hitters within the organization have exceeded expectations. The pitching was looking fairly decent early on but injuries destroyed that. I have no clue what's going on with the hitters. Roden was talked about as playing with the big club but he has had a terrible year. I was thinking Bohrofen might take a leap this year but he's had a mediocre year. Could go on with a few more. Is it a development or a drafting problem?

Not including any trade deadline acquisitions it's very likely a bottom 5 farm system.

 

[Dr.Funk]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1816648124925944219

 

[Dr.Funk]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1816697460074459147

 

[Canucks LB]

Hey guys, who are some good bluejays insiders to follow for trades?
I heard the jays are gonna move quite a bit of players this year, even tho mostly rentals.
I still feel this is a mistake, should move Vladdy and bo also, but that's fine i guess.
thanks!

 

[jetsforever]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1816697460074459147

We broke the team!

 

[trellaine201]

Just glad he didn’t end up in the rumored LA Dodgers.

 

[Discoverer]

This season is a totally different season from last season.

The team had been in the playoffs for 3 years straight.

Things only unraveled after the playoff disaster last year undermined the confidence and credibility of the organization, nothing was done about it, and then it was backed up by a terrible offseason.

Yeah, I don't think anyone was remotely happy about this offseason. Having said that, a very similar roster won 89 games last year, and projection systems (which aren't positive or negative but entirely neutral) had the Jays in a playoff spot coming into the season, so it's not like believing they would contend was just unfounded positivity or something.

 

[Discoverer]

Forgot about his struggles.

Looking at their top 10 prospects on MLB.com, they are either injured or have played below expectations. I could be wrong, but very few if any hitters within the organization have exceeded expectations. The pitching was looking fairly decent early on but injuries destroyed that. I have no clue what's going on with the hitters. Roden was talked about as playing with the big club but he has had a terrible year. I was thinking Bohrofen might take a leap this year but he's had a mediocre year. Could go on with a few more. Is it a development or a drafting problem?

Not including any trade deadline acquisitions it's very likely a bottom 5 farm system.

Yep, the only excitement on the farm was early on when the Buffalo kids were playing well, but all those guys are in the majors now (plus Orelvis). That part is probably a good thing - it's exactly what you want from your AAA team - but they didn't have anyone to shuffle up from the lower levels to keep the line moving.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Yeah, I don't think anyone was remotely happy about this offseason. Having said that, a very similar roster won 89 games last year, and projection systems (which aren't positive or negative but entirely neutral) had the Jays in a playoff spot coming into the season, so it's not like believing they would contend was just unfounded positivity or something.

It was though.. it would have required them to keep their pitching and bullpen ERA in the top of the league and their offense to miraculously become better with no material changes to the roster and no changes to the offensive coaching staff.

Predictably, the hitting stayed terrible and the pitching couldn't sustain a level that was clearly above the actual talent level of the collective arms.

I jumped off the minute they didn't get Ohtani and didn't change the hitting coach. This was so obviously going to be the season and I'm proud I've not seen more than a handful of ABs while waiting for my wife to get into the room to watch something else.

 

[shaner8989]

Keep losing, fire the morons, trade everyone.

We are in terrible shape going forward. Ugly times

 

[Suntouchable13]

Rogers doesn’t give a shit. Whoever the person is up on the Rogers board should go like this: Mark, you go and fire Atkins or I fire the both of you. 1 loses the job or 2 loses the job, do the math. Seriously, man.

 

[The Iceman]

This situation that the Jays are in reminds me of if I was buying a rental car.
The guys driving the rental car don't care if I am buying a car that was run into the ground.

By every measurable every aspect of this team is being run into the ground.

Coming into the season I had some hope for RPs Richards, Swanson and Pearson.
They are the worst they have ever been.

Hitting slumps all over the batting order.

Highest team payroll in team history.

MLB, AAA, AA teams in last place.
Prospect pool which was poor to start the season had 2 clear better prospects from the rest.
Orelvis and Ricky and those 2 have taken a massive drop.

Starting pitching coming into the season looked solid and now KUCH has hit a wall, Gausman looks 5 years older, Berrios some of his worst career numbers

President builds a nice ballpark and little else,
GM drastically underqualified for his role, why didn't he add a bat or RP 2 months ago?
Manager strapped with inadequate roster, and our #1 coaching resource Pete Walker having the pitchers looking to him for answers he can't deliver.

Lets start with a clean slate, this is as low as the team can get!!!

 

[trellaine201]

Currently we have no MLB Team and we have no farm system. Yet these clowns Shapiro and Atkins have jobs. Pipeline had us 24th before the season started. Not exactly endorsing.

"Tiedemann’s stuff is arguably the best among Minor League left-handers and Martinez provides tremendous power right now at just 22 years old. But that’s where the true excitement perhaps ends. The rest of the Toronto system relies on HOPE". MLB Pipeline

 

[The Iceman]

Currently we have no MLB Team and we have no farm system. Yet these clowns Shapiro and Atkins have jobs. Pipeline had us 24th before the season started. Not exactly endorsing.

"Tiedemann’s stuff is arguably the best among Minor League left-handers and Martinez provides tremendous power right now at just 22 years old. But that’s where the true excitement perhaps ends. The rest of the Toronto system relies on HOPE". MLB Pipeline

AGREE, and both of our top 2 prospects have massive warts at the moment.

 

[LaP]

This season is a totally different season from last season.

The team had been in the playoffs for 3 years straight.

Things only unraveled after the playoff disaster last year undermined the confidence and credibility of the organization, nothing was done about it, and then it was backed up by a terrible offseason.

I honestly think it started in the playoffs of 2022. Clearly the bullpen had to be improved that year and all the trades Atkins did at the deadline failed in playoffs. All of Bass, White and Pop sucked in playoffs. Bass had an infinite ERA in playoffs. Pitched 0 innings and gave 3 points which doesn't compute. Pop did not give any point but he pitched 0.1 innings and gave two hits nothing too impressive. White sucked so much in regular season that he did not pitch in playoffs. Then it continued the following year. The offense had to be iomproved at the deadline and Atkins again did not improve it.

 

[Discoverer]

It was though.. it would have required them to keep their pitching and bullpen ERA in the top of the league and their offense to miraculously become better with no material changes to the roster and no changes to the offensive coaching staff.

Predictably, the hitting stayed terrible and the pitching couldn't sustain a level that was clearly above the actual talent level of the collective arms.

I jumped off the minute they didn't get Ohtani and didn't change the hitting coach. This was so obviously going to be the season and I'm proud I've not seen more than a handful of ABs while waiting for my wife to get into the room to watch something else.

It didn't require that at all. If you actually looked at the projections, they had both the pitching and hitting regressing to the mean somewhat.

I'm glad you're proud of not watching the team, though.

 

[WeThreeKings]

It didn't require that at all. If you actually looked at the projections, they had both the pitching and hitting regressing to the mean somewhat.

I'm glad you're proud of not watching the team, though.

The hitting was never going to 'regress to the mean' when you make no changes and have the same offensive coaching staff in place.

 

[canucksfan]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1816850847898157364

 

[Mike Jones]

Rogers doesn’t give a shit. Whoever the person is up on the Rogers board should go like this: Mark, you go and fire Atkins or I fire the both of you. 1 loses the job or 2 loses the job, do the math. Seriously, man.

Yeah but they both have to go. A competent owner would do the right thing and toss them both.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Yeah but they both have to go. A competent owner would do the right thing and toss them both.

I am fine with that. Toss them both.

 

[DuklaNation]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1816850847898157364

Just imagine how bad it would be without their run prevention strategy.

 

[dredeye]

Currently we have no MLB Team and we have no farm system. Yet these clowns Shapiro and Atkins have jobs. Pipeline had us 24th before the season started. Not exactly endorsing.

"Tiedemann’s stuff is arguably the best among Minor League left-handers and Martinez provides tremendous power right now at just 22 years old. But that’s where the true excitement perhaps ends. The rest of the Toronto system relies on HOPE". MLB Pipeline

That power may also disappear for Martinez with the inability to use PED's

 

[MS]

I honestly think it started in the playoffs of 2022. Clearly the bullpen had to be improved that year and all the trades Atkins did at the deadline failed in playoffs. All of Bass, White and Pop sucked in playoffs. Bass had an infinite ERA in playoffs. Pitched 0 innings and gave 3 points which doesn't compute. Pop did not give any point but he pitched 0.1 innings and gave two hits nothing too impressive. White sucked so much in regular season that he did not pitch in playoffs. Then it continued the following year. The offense had to be iomproved at the deadline and Atkins again did not improve it.

They did improve the bullpen after 2022 and it was one of the best in MLB last year.

But like everything else, this offseason was horrific in that aspect.

 

[canucksfan]

In regards to the bullpen, it was reasonable to expect it to decline somewhat but not how much it has. Mayza, Swanson, and Romano were excellent last year but either struggled or were injured this year.

However, the organization had/has no one to replace any of them in the minors.

 

[Discoverer]

The hitting was never going to 'regress to the mean' when you make no changes and have the same offensive coaching staff in place.

Regressing to the mean means players in their mid-20s bouncing back to career norms rather than continuing to decline. That's a completely normal expectation in baseball, and that's why projections had the offense rebounding somewhat.

I don't disagree on the coaching aspect of it, but the sample size was one year in that regard... it could have been coaching, it could have been the players, or it could have been (to some extent, at least) a fluke. That's why I think Mattingly is such a huge problem with this team: guys who are 24-28ish shouldn't just be falling off a cliff. That's not normal.