GDT: 2024 Rookie Tournament

[BondraTime]

Tomorrow I think

I'd expect we see a training camp roster at some point today

 

[bert]

I was fully against Yakemchuk at #7 months and months before we drafted him, but you know that. Has nothing to do with the Sens picking him, just never thought he was as good as you and several others on this site thought he was.

His skating was noticeably terrible. Not his top speed, which his fine, but his quickness and footspeed. He got burned for multiple breakaways against and got himself into some trouble from quicker forwards all tournament, resulting in some bad turnovers.

You can hand wave this away saying it's all a strength issue, but he's already a late birthday (older than most 2024 draftees) and it doesn't look like his skating has improved at all over the summer.

You were also against drafting Tkachuk. Who was a late and not a polished skater. You simply don't seem to grasp bigger player development.

 

[Hale The Villain]

You were also against drafting Tkachuk. Who was a late and not a polished skater. You simply don't seem to grasp bigger player development.

I was against drafting Tkachuk because I preferred Noah Dobson, a 6'4 defenseman who just put up 70 points.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

He was overall quite good in tournament. And you can tell he was quite good, because if he wasn't, this thread would have been fifteen pages longer with even more doom and gloom.

I watched Parekh's two games in the rookie tournament to provide a comparable baseline in which to measure Yakemchuk. And with no hint of of exaggeration, Parekh was probably one of the worst players on the ice the first game. After a brutal 1st period in game 2, he settled down a bit and played better, and generated some offense. You can go watch the highlights or reference the Flames hfboard as they watched the game in real time. Yakemchuk has been the far better player and I don't think it is particularly close.


It is decent and good enough

Well not many huge parekh fans around here anyway

 

[Senator Stanley]

I was fully against Yakemchuk at #7 months and months before we drafted him, but you know that. Has nothing to do with the Sens picking him, just never thought he was as good as you and several others on this site thought he was.

His skating was noticeably terrible. Not his top speed, which his fine, but his quickness and footspeed. He got burned for multiple breakaways against and got himself into some trouble from quicker forwards all tournament, resulting in some bad turnovers.

You can hand wave this away saying it's all a strength issue, but he's already a late birthday (older than most 2024 draftees) and it doesn't look like his skating has improved at all over the summer.

I wasn't a Yakemchuk fan going into the draft and I still have concerns, but I was encouraged by his play this weekend.

For one, I thought his mobility looked noticeably improved from the end of last season. He still has a lot more work to do, but I thought he looked more balanced, more powerful and more fluid in his movements. Everyone (except for Dave Poulin, apparently) knows he needs to work on his skating, but I saw an 18 year old who's clearly put in the work over the summer and is making progress. He's never going to be pretty, and some watchers probably will never get past that, but you don't need to be pretty to be effective.

I also liked what I saw offensively. One of my biggest concerns with him is whether the offensive game will be impactful enough at the NHL level to offset whatever defensive limitations he may have. I was encouraged by how much he was able to do offensively. It's a big step up in competition for him, and yet he was involved, creating chances and clearly one of the most gifted offensive players on the ice. Most importantly, he showed he could make an impact in ways that I think translate - through anticipation, in-zone movement and passing.

 

[Xspyrit]

Getting outscored 17-4 across three games is not great

We had the best pool in the NHL 3 years ago after the 2020 draft.

Never underestimate the Dorion

But were we tough to play against?

Some of our best prospects :

 

[Senscore]

We had the best pool in the NHL 3 years ago after the 2020 draft.

Never underestimate the Dorion

I try to be optimistic about rebuilding the prospect pool but then I remember we still have to give up a first round pick, not because Dorion misjudged a young player, but because he didn't take his job seriously enough.

Unbelievable.

 

[Micklebot]

We had the best pool in the NHL 3 years ago after the 2020 draft.

Never underestimate the Dorion

That's just what happens though, top pools can't be top pools for long because if they are actually that good guys graduate quickly.

Now, we should still have a better pool than we do, but Dorion or not, the 2020 pool was based on Stu, Sanderson, Greig, Pinto, Sogaard JBD and Thomson along with some good depth pieces like Kasttelic, Kleven and Jarventie. Most of those guys are gone from the prospect pool regardless of what Dorion did since, maybe instead of bottom 5 we're middle of the road had we drafted guys like Sillinger instead of Boucher, Kasper instead of trading for DBC, and But instead of trading for Chychrun, but the pool wasn't going to still be top of the league regardless of what happened.

 

[Xspyrit]

He only started dangling when the game was well out of reach For the majority of the tournament, he played a quietly effective offensive game. Like his team in Calgary, the forward group were unable to hang on to pucks, make plays and maintain zone time. It has hard to showcase your offensive skillset when a forward group is so limited. Despite this, he had 2 points in three games- was on 50% of the teams goals.

He might have to get used to it because there is not much of a future in Ottawa after a few guys

Giroux and Perron are both 36 y/o

Batherson is 26 already, Tkachuk and Norris are 25. How many peak/prime years do these guys have left? Norris future is pretty unknown at this point. Batherson has 3 years left and Tkachuk has 4 years left on his contract.

We have Stutzle (22), Pinto (23) and Greig (22)

Our best forward prospects are possible 3rd liners. And looking at the way we have drafted recently, we really need to turn things around ASAP

I try to be optimistic about rebuilding the prospect pool but then I remember we still have to give up a first round pick, not because Dorion misjudged a young player, but because he didn't take his job seriously enough.

Unbelievable.

Frankly, I don't understand anything about this, and it is after watching and talking about him for 8+ years.

That pick loss is going to STING big time.

 

[Micklebot]

He might have to get used to it because there is not much of a future in Ottawa after a few guys

Giroux and Perron are both 36 y/o

Batherson is 26 already, Tkachuk and Norris are 25. How many peak/prime years do these guys have left? Norris future is pretty unknown at this point. Batherson has 3 years left and Tkachuk has 4 years left on his contract.

We have Stutzle (22), Pinto (23) and Greig (22)

Our best forward prospects are possible 3rd liners. And looking at the way we have drafted recently, we really need to turn things around ASAP

Ok, so the two UFA acquisitions in the system are old, and for some reason there's no way we'd ever replace them with different UFA?

The rest seems to be fear mongering that we won't re-sign the guys we have, and while possible, if we don't we're likely trading them to restock while opening up cap space for UFA options.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Best in class?

 

[albator71]

I think some of you are giving to much importance to prospects. Look at Buffalo they've been drafting in the top half for the last 13 years and still they can't make the playoffs now look at Boston they've been drafting in the bottom half forever and they're always at the top of the standings! Yes drafting is important but there's other ways to build a winning team if you have a smart GM. You can have all prospects you want it doesn't guarantee success, the Panthers won the cup how many players on that team were drafted by Florida? Not many! And I know you gonna tell me Ottawa can't do what Florida did because the Sens are a small market team ect ect ect... But I remember a time not to long ago where no players wanted to go to Florida because they we bad!!! like really bad!!! So winning attracts players

 

[Xspyrit]

That's just what happens though, top pools can't be top pools for long because if they are actually that good guys graduate quickly.

Now, we should still have a better pool than we do, but Dorion or not, the 2020 pool was based on Stu, Sanderson, Greig, Pinto, Sogaard JBD and Thomson along with some good depth pieces like Kasttelic, Kleven and Jarventie. Most of those guys are gone from the prospect pool regardless of what Dorion did since, maybe instead of bottom 5 we're middle of the road had we drafted guys like Sillinger instead of Boucher, Kasper instead of trading for DBC, and But instead of trading for Chychrun, but the pool wasn't going to still be top of the league regardless of what happened.

This has been addressed ad nauseam and the answer remains the same. I don't think anybody was expecting the Sens to keep having a "top pool", the problem I and others have is :

- Losing a 1st round pick due to Dadonov fiasco
- Drafting Tyler Boucher with a 10th OA pick
- Drafting Ben Roger and Filip Nordberg with 2nds (not to mention the other almost immediate busts like Latimer)
- Drafting Eliasson with an early 2nd round pick
- Trading a 7th OA pick + 2nd + 3rd to end up with a goalie with only 1 year before UFA and a 4th round pick
- Trading a 12th OA pick + 2nd + 2nd to end up with a 34 y/o defensive D-man in decline and a 3rd round pick in 2026
- Spending a 2nd + 3rd + + 3rd + 4th + 7th to move on from Zaitsev, Murray and Joseph contracts (Trading Nick Paul to end up downgrading a 3rd to a 4th)
- Spending picks on bad vets with high cap hits like Stepan and Gudbranson (2nd + 4th) for example, while some other teams get paid to take on "bad contracts"
- Spending a 3rd on Travis Hamonic because we didn't have a 4th?
- Giving up a 4th round pick when trading Jarventie for another prospect not even rated higher anymore?
- Etc.

The 2020 pool was awesome and I pushed it as the best pool in the NHL on the main boards but we had the opportunity to maintain a good level if we didn't have the worst management I have ever seen. Dorion hurt us badly in the past, present and future and as much as people want to "move on", the pain is still very actual.

Ok, so the two UFA acquisitions in the system are old, and for some reason there's no way we'd ever replace them with different UFA?

The rest seems to be fear mongering that we won't re-sign the guys we have, and while possible, if we don't we're likely trading them to restock while opening up cap space for UFA options.

Have we ever been a top destination for UFAs? Unfortunately, we get some names (Gonchar, Kovalev, Hasek, Giroux, etc) towards the end of their careers so they can't be "building blocks"

How is looking at facts "fear mongering"? I would LOVE if Batherson was going to be a PPG Winger until he is 35 years old, but what are the chances it happens in the reality? Look at Bobby Ryan, Top-6 forward from 21 to 28 years old, a few injuries and then a 3rd liner until he had to lace them up at 33 y/o. That's how most careers go

I'm more hopeful with Tkachuk with his built and his father was still quite effective in his 30's. I think I'd group him with the Stutzle group. With Norris, I am just hoping he can salvage his hockey career as of now.

So where is the fear mongering? What isn't TRUE about this?

 

[Cosmix]

You were also against drafting Tkachuk. Who was a late and not a polished skater. You simply don't seem to grasp bigger player development.

There were other options at #7.

We had the best pool in the NHL 3 years ago after the 2020 draft.

Never underestimate the Dorion



Some of our best prospects :

View attachment 907485

Great movie!

I wasn't a Yakemchuk fan going into the draft and I still have concerns, but I was encouraged by his play this weekend.

For one, I thought his mobility looked noticeably improved from the end of last season. He still has a lot more work to do, but I thought he looked more balanced, more powerful and more fluid in his movements. Everyone (except for Dave Poulin, apparently) knows he needs to work on his skating, but I saw an 18 year old who's clearly put in the work over the summer and is making progress. He's never going to be pretty, and some watchers probably will never get past that, but you don't need to be pretty to be effective.

I also liked what I saw offensively. One of my biggest concerns with him is whether the offensive game will be impactful enough at the NHL level to offset whatever defensive limitations he may have. I was encouraged by how much he was able to do offensively. It's a big step up in competition for him, and yet he was involved, creating chances and clearly one of the most gifted offensive players on the ice. Most importantly, he showed he could make an impact in ways that I think translate - through anticipation, in-zone movement and passing.

Do you have a quote of Poulin re: Yakemchuk?

 

[Micklebot]

This has been addressed ad nauseam and the answer remains the same. I don't think anybody was expecting the Sens to keep having a "top pool", the problem I and others have is :

- Losing a 1st round pick due to Dadonov fiasco
- Drafting Tyler Boucher with a 10th OA pick
- Drafting Ben Roger and Filip Nordberg with 2nds (not to mention the other almost immediate busts like Latimer)
- Drafting Eliasson with an early 2nd round pick
- Trading a 7th OA pick + 2nd + 3rd to end up with a goalie with only 1 year before UFA and a 4th round pick
- Trading a 12th OA pick + 2nd + 2nd to end up with a 34 y/o defensive D-man in decline and a 3rd round pick in 2026
- Spending a 2nd + 3rd + + 3rd + 4th + 7th to move on from Zaitsev, Murray and Joseph contracts (Trading Nick Paul to end up downgrading a 3rd to a 4th)
- Spending picks on bad vets with high cap hits like Stepan and Gudbranson (2nd + 4th) for example, while some other teams get paid to take on "bad contracts"
- Spending a 3rd on Travis Hamonic because we didn't have a 4th?
- Giving up a 4th round pick when trading Jarventie for another prospect not even rated higher anymore?
- Etc.

The 2020 pool was awesome and I pushed him as the best pool in the NHL on the main boards but we had the opportunity to maintain a good level if we didn't have the worst management I have ever seen. Dorion hurt us badly in the past, present and future and as much as people want to "move on", the pain is still very actual.

Again, everyone knows Dorion screwed some things up. 2nd round picks typically bust so complaints about Roger are just that, needless complaining, the point though is trying to use our top ranked pool in 2020 to highlight how things are now is nonesense, it's unrealistic to expect that to be maintained so bringing it up at all is just theatre and adds nothing .

Have we ever been a top destination for UFAs? Unfortunately, we get some names (Gonchar, Kovalev, Hasek, Giroux, etc) towards the end of their careers so they can't be "building blocks"

You are literally complaining that we will eventually lose UFA that we signed as UFA. We hadn't been a destination for years because we either had zero money to try to attract anyone or were seen as a bottom feeder. Our ability to attract UFA is based on how our future looks, and the cap space we have. Right now, we have some great young pieces, and despite your complaints, are seen as a team on the rise.

How is looking at facts "fear mongering"? I would LOVE if Batherson was going to be a PPG Winger until he is 35 years old, but what are the chances it happens in the reality? Look at Bobby Ryan, Top-6 forward from 21 to 28 years old, a few injuries and then a 3rd liner until he had to lace them up at 33 y/o. That's how most careers go

It's fearmongering because you are making assumptions of the worst case scenario, guys leave and aren't replaced.

I'm more hopeful with Tkachuk with his built and his father was still quite effective in his 30's. I think I'd group him with the Stutzle group. With Norris, I am just hoping he can salvage his hockey career as of now.

So where is the fear mongering? What isn't TRUE about this?

If you cant see it that's on you, not me. Its self evident for anyone bothering to be objective. Does that mean everything will for sure be great, of course not, but when your premise is we will lose guys we have and do nothing to replace them, that's fear mongering.

 

[Cosmix]

I wasn't a Yakemchuk fan going into the draft and I still have concerns, but I was encouraged by his play this weekend.

For one, I thought his mobility looked noticeably improved from the end of last season. He still has a lot more work to do, but I thought he looked more balanced, more powerful and more fluid in his movements. Everyone (except for Dave Poulin, apparently) knows he needs to work on his skating, but I saw an 18 year old who's clearly put in the work over the summer and is making progress. He's never going to be pretty, and some watchers probably will never get past that, but you don't need to be pretty to be effective.

I also liked what I saw offensively. One of my biggest concerns with him is whether the offensive game will be impactful enough at the NHL level to offset whatever defensive limitations he may have. I was encouraged by how much he was able to do offensively. It's a big step up in competition for him, and yet he was involved, creating chances and clearly one of the most gifted offensive players on the ice. Most importantly, he showed he could make an impact in ways that I think translate - through anticipation, in-zone movement and passing.

Yakemchuk is very young and the tournament has many older prospects, so I did not expect to see a "star".

It is very early in Yakemchuk's development; I like his potential and hope he turns out to be top 4D.

There were other potential draft picks I preferred; only time will tell which draft pick would be optimal at #7. I am looking forward to watch his development over the next few years.

 

[Sens in Process]

I wasn't a Yakemchuk fan going into the draft and I still have concerns, but I was encouraged by his play this weekend.

For one, I thought his mobility looked noticeably improved from the end of last season. He still has a lot more work to do, but I thought he looked more balanced, more powerful and more fluid in his movements. Everyone (except for Dave Poulin, apparently) knows he needs to work on his skating, but I saw an 18 year old who's clearly put in the work over the summer and is making progress. He's never going to be pretty, and some watchers probably will never get past that, but you don't need to be pretty to be effective.

I also liked what I saw offensively. One of my biggest concerns with him is whether the offensive game will be impactful enough at the NHL level to offset whatever defensive limitations he may have. I was encouraged by how much he was able to do offensively. It's a big step up in competition for him, and yet he was involved, creating chances and clearly one of the most gifted offensive players on the ice. Most importantly, he showed he could make an impact in ways that I think translate - through anticipation, in-zone movement and passing.

I saw things in a very similar way. There was some good and bad, but overall we saw a prospect with a definite development path to becoming a very good NHL defensemen.

There are two things that need to be coached out of Yakemchuk. In offensive zone, he sometimes drifts out of position and it takes him out of the play as a viable option by getting too close to defenders or forcing his teammates to awkwardly change spots with him. If he just stayed at the right point and let the game come to him, he would be much better served.

He also gets flat footed trying to extend plays in the offensive zone and he does not have top end recovery speed.

That being said, he often has really good anticipation and can break up plays in the neutral zone - evidenced by his goal. He did this many times during last season.

His skating has certainly improved - he continues to look less dangly and erratic, and more powerful and strong. Hopefully this trend continues.

An aside, the Calgary Hitmen released their roster and have Yakemchuk at 6'4. I read elsewhere that he actually measured at 6,'3.5. If this is accurate, he has grown half an inch since the combine. It gives me the impression there is more room to improve his skating, because he still hasn't finished growing into his body. Yak will probably end up being 6'4 and 220 when all said and done.

 

[Cosmix]

Failing to score on a 5 on 3. A time honoured sens tradition.

I wonder how the Senator's stats compare to league stats?

 

[Cosmix]

Key takeaways after the 3 games:

Halliday is a steal and may have top 6 potential. Big, smart and skilled. Carries the puck well through traffic and has the creativity needed to generate offense at the pro level. I expect he'll have a big year in Belleville, but if Norris or another of our centers get injured I'd love to see him center one of our top 3 lines with some skill players.

Yakemchuk's feet are awful and his decision-making is not great. Great at jumping down low and utilizing his hands and shot, but his effectiveness at generating offense from the blueline will be limited unless he can improve his quickness significantly. Puck management and defensive attentiveness needs to improve as well. Not the best showing from a 7th overall pick.

Boucher, Eliasson and Nordberg are all great athletes with grit but rocks for brains. Just zero hockey IQ between them and as much as people will say they are raw and still need years of development, it's very very difficult to develop hockey sense. Don't expect much from any of them, despite all 3 picked in the first couple rounds.

Having an "educated" coaching staff in junior and the AHL could help these "low hockey IQ" prospects improve their play. They are young enough to have time to develop their minds as well as their bodies. Hopefully the Senator's development staff will get directly involved in their "training" and "education" in addition to giving them lists of "things to work on".

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Again, everyone knows Dorion screwed some things up. 2nd round picks typically bust so complaints about Roger are just that, needless complaining, the point though is trying to use our top ranked pool in 2020 to highlight how things are now is nonesense, it's unrealistic to expect that to be maintained so bringing it up at all is just theatre and adds nothing .

Having 2nd rounders amount to nothing isn't out of the norm but for us it looks to be part of a bigger problem.

We seem to want to do two things:

1) Trade the 2nd round picks before we use them for veterans of, at best, middling impact. Stepan, Murray, Debrincat, Chychrun. Some of these (the only somewhat useful ones) also cost a 1st but whatever. The point is that we don't use enough of our 2nd round picks.

2) We go for guys like Roger, Eliasson, Nordberd, Kleven, etc.. Some of these guys will probably be NHL players (Kleven and Eliasson) and that's fine, but contrast it with a team like Dallas where they get young cornerstone players in the second round like Hintz, Stankoven, Robertson. We seem to give up on skilled guys with upside after about pick 15OA.

Ben Roger seems to be a symptom of our general philosophy. I think it's a genuine concern.

 

[DylanSensFan]

What makes me nervous about Yak is how reliant he is on his hands to create offense.

Like it's one thing if you're an elite skater like Hughes, Karlsson or Makar and deking out everyone.

But on the other side you have David Rundblad. Where your bread and butter advantage vanishes overnight in the NHL.

Yakemchuk is going to require some time for sure.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Having 2nd rounders amount to nothing isn't out of the norm but for us it looks to be part of a bigger problem.

We seem to want to do two things:

1) Trade the 2nd round picks before we use them for veterans of, at best, middling impact. Stepan, Murray, Debrincat, Chychrun. Some of these (the only somewhat useful ones) also cost a 1st but whatever. The point is that we don't use enough of our 2nd round picks.

2) We go for guys like Roger, Eliasson, Nordberd, Kleven, etc.. Some of these guys will probably be NHL players (Kleven and Eliasson) and that's fine, but contrast it with a team like Dallas where they get young cornerstone players in the second round like Hintz, Stankoven, Robertson. We seem to give up on skilled guys with upside after about pick 15OA.

Ben Roger seems to be a symptom of our general philosophy. I think it's a genuine concern.

Defenders will simply say if you look at the odds then your second rounder has a higher chance of not amounting to anything than amounting to something. So it’s all good!

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I missed game 3 how was nordberg.

 

[Micklebot]

Having 2nd rounders amount to nothing isn't out of the norm but for us it looks to be part of a bigger problem.

We seem to want to do two things:

1) Trade the 2nd round picks before we use them for veterans of, at best, middling impact. Stepan, Murray, Debrincat, Chychrun. Some of these (the only somewhat useful ones) also cost a 1st but whatever. The point is that we don't use enough of our 2nd round picks.

2) We go for guys like Roger, Eliasson, Nordberd, Kleven, etc.. Some of these guys will probably be NHL players (Kleven and Eliasson) and that's fine, but contrast it with a team like Dallas where they get young cornerstone players in the second round like Hintz, Stankoven, Robertson. We seem to give up on skilled guys with upside after about pick 15OA.

Ben Roger seems to be a symptom of our general philosophy. I think it's a genuine concern.

The problem is when you lament the 2nd rounders that fail (including the guy we literally just drafted as a project), while ignoring that we did seemingly hit on a guy like Ostapchuk and Kleven. We're looking like we'll be 2 for 6 in the last 4 drafts which is about what you expect (I'm not including this year because it's way too early).

Yes, Dallas hit some homeruns, it can happen. You can also end up busts that way too, you can't just look at the one team that caught lightning in a bottle and say they are doing it right, you have to look at the draft as a whole and base you're evaluation on what tends to work over the larger sample. If Elliasson takes the Chara path and Kleven becomes Weber do we suddenly talk about how great our strategy was? There will always be guys who exceed expectations and guys that don't live up to it, drafting skilled guys doesn't guarantee you will find the next Kucherov, just like drafting big guys won't guarantee you Weber or Chara,

Yes, we gave up a lot of capital with the trades, everyone agrees. But in the last 6 years, we've picked 9 times in the 2nd round, so when you say we don't use enough of our 2nd round picks, how many exactly do you expect us to use? You only get one a year by default.

 

[Micklebot]

Defenders will simply say if you look at the odds then your second rounder has a higher chance of not amounting to anything than amounting to something. So it’s all good!

Actually, defenders will say look at how the team performs overall in the second round instead of on a pick by pick basis because looking at an individual pick is either dishonest or plain stupid way of evaluating a teams drafting when the expected return of an individual pick is bust.