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GDT: 2024 NHL Draft Thread

Cowumbus said:
What/who do you consider to be a star player?

I don’t see a world where 5OA lands you McAvoy.
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No, and he's not available. But generically that pick would be worth a player somewhere between McAvoy and Rasmus Andersson, if they were available. A lot has to do with player contracts and various other factors.

I'm not interested in debating with you what qualifies as a star.

Cowumbus said:
So a #4 defenseman cost us a 1st and a 2nd, but a star can be had for 5OA?
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Yes. I'm not sure what you're confused about.
 
majormajor said:
No, and he's not available. But generically that pick would be worth a player somewhere between McAvoy and Rasmus Andersson, if they were available. A lot has to do with player contracts and various other factors.

I'm not interested in debating with you what qualifies as a star.
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What you determine to be a star player, determines how rational this take is.
majormajor said:
Yes. I'm not sure what you're confused about.
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Jeff Carter a 60P C, was traded for 8OA Voracek and a 3rd. Im confused why you think 5OA straight up gets you someone like Noah Dobson.
 
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Cowumbus said:
What you determine to be a star player, determines how rational this take is.

Jeff Carter a 60P C, was traded for 8OA Voracek and a 3rd. Im confused why you think there is an above zero percent chance 5OA gets you someone like Noah Dobson.
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Dobson is one of the best D in the league, a 24 year old RFA on a $4m deal. Of course he's worth more. Why would you imagine that was what I was thinking? Don't insult me.

If Rasmus Andersson had a few more years on his sweetheart deal I think he'd be worth about #5OA.

In any case, this has nothing to do with the Jackets, we're not likely to trade our pick. We can do without these annoying unproductive arguments.
 
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majormajor said:
Dobson is one of the best D in the league, a 24 year old RFA on a $4m deal. Of course he's worth more. Why would you imagine that was what I was thinking? Don't insult me.
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You said a star player.
majormajor said:
If Rasmus Andersson had a few more years on his sweetheart deal I think he'd be worth about #5OA.
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He does not, and is not. Nor is he a “star” which is why I asked what you think a star is. Has he ever had a single Norris vote? Asking, but I’d guess not.

Please show me a list of “stars” that could be had for 5OA.
majormajor said:
We can do without these annoying unproductive arguments.
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You started the discussion by saying 5OA gets you a star. The entire point of my post is that is makes 0 sense to trade the equivalent of two 1sts and a 2nd for a marginally better player than Provorov, when we have free agency.
 
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majormajor said:
Well we're just going to use those words differently then, that's fine.
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Which is why I asked.
IMG_2667.jpeg

Anderson 52% career Corsi, Provorov 49%. Anderson 45% dZone starts, Provorov 58%. Maybe an Anderson level player (whatever people want to call it) maybe could be had for 5OA, but that would be a huge mistake.
 
Cowumbus said:
Which is why I asked.
View attachment 865566
Anderson 52% career Corsi, Provorov 49%. Anderson 45% dZone starts, Provorov 58%. Maybe an Anderson level player (whatever people want to call it) maybe could be had for 5OA, but that would be a huge mistake.
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I could have picked a different example. As I was saying, trade values have a lot to do with team control, age, and contract. There are certainly widely agreed upon star players that could be had for a 5th OA. And likely many that you wouldn't even want because of their age or their contract. Erik Karlsson was just traded for far less.

[once again, I am not suggesting we trade our pick]
 
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Not to wade into the argument about what a star is, but Provorov peaked in his 2nd season and hasn’t been nearly as good since (except maybe the COVID season). He looked like he was going to be a really a good player, and then he wasn’t. Rasmus Andersson was picked in the 2nd half of the 2nd round, so he never had the hype Provorov had, and he slowly grew to become a first pair D who could up 50 points. Andersson is also way tougher than Provorov and looks far more engaged in the games I have seen.
 
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koteka said:
Not to wade into the argument about what a star is, but Provorov peaked in his 2nd season and hasn’t been nearly as good since (except maybe the COVID season). He looked like he was going to be a really a good player, and then he wasn’t. Rasmus Andersson was picked in the 2nd half of the 2nd round, so he never had the hype Provorov had, and he slowly grew to become a first pair D who could up 50 points. Andersson is also way tougher than Provorov and looks far more engaged in the games I have seen.
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Same with Noah Hanifin (who scored more and logged more hits and takeaways), who was acquired at the TDL for a 2025 1st, 3rd (could turn into a 2nd) and a prospect.

Provorov had more hits than Andersson too, oddly enough.
 
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majormajor said:
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]Jesse Pulkkinen[/TD]
[TD]LD[/TD]
[TD]#1D tools but needs to come a long way[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
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I knew you liked Pulkkinen but #10 is surprisingly high. What are the biggest question marks regarding his development in your opinion? Who could be a good 1D comparable for his ceiling?

I've seen only 3 or 4 games from the U20's. I remember him being pretty impressive with puck carries and physicality but didn't seem like a high motor player that is willing to play quick transition game or who could play hard closer to 30 minutes without breaking a sweat. I don't know if he's a great shooter either.
 
tunnelvision said:
I knew you liked Pulkkinen but #10 is surprisingly high. What are the biggest question marks regarding his development in your opinion? Who could be a good 1D comparable for his ceiling?

I've seen only 3 or 4 games from the U20's. I remember him being pretty impressive with puck carries and physicality but didn't seem like a high motor player that is willing to play quick transition game or who could play hard closer to 30 minutes without breaking a sweat. I don't know if he's a great shooter either.
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In the Liiga games I watched, he at times is slow. Pulkkinen has those big heavy strides and has great top speed but sometimes doesn't get up to speed. Yes it would affect his ability to skate pucks in transition - I've seen him do it with ease in Liiga but that is with a lot of runway and the wider ice surface. I agree with you that I don't see him playing huge minutes until he has some skating refinements. Beyond that there is some inconsistency in all aspects of his game.

I heard here that Pulkkinen's meteoric rise over the last year came from only committing to hockey after last year's draft:



That pace of improvement makes me more confident that Pulkkinen can continue to improve on those weak points.

I can't think of a good comparable among established NHLers for Pulkkinen. He does remind me a lot of another 6'6 defender in Simon Edvinsson, who in my opinion is a great prospect. Edvinsson is obviously the more polished skater but they share that remarkable calmness under pressure and slick handling ability.
 
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koteka said:
Not to wade into the argument about what a star is, but Provorov peaked in his 2nd season and hasn’t been nearly as good since (except maybe the COVID season). He looked like he was going to be a really a good player, and then he wasn’t. Rasmus Andersson was picked in the 2nd half of the 2nd round, so he never had the hype Provorov had, and he slowly grew to become a first pair D who could up 50 points. Andersson is also way tougher than Provorov and looks far more engaged in the games I have seen.
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How are we evaluating toughness between the two?
 
Only one of Bob's ten scouts had Buium in the top 5, so it's looking like he'll be my preferred pick when our turn comes around.

I'm not super surprised. Six foot left-defenseman without elite skating, it doesn't matter what else he does.
 
Viqsi said:
I really don't know why folks are bothering to look at the top of the draft. It's just another way to ensure future depression and disappointment.
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You either live life working hard expecting it will pay dividends .. or you give in and let life being hard defeat you.. The choice is yours .. Your attitude and approach play a big factor in the results .
 
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