HF Habs: 2024 NHL Draft Thread

[Kents polished head]

He’s a riser just as Lidstrom is. And I haven’t heard anyone say he’s the ‘second coming of God.’ That’s how the draft goes sometimes man, late risers and fallers. Eiserman was being touted as a solid number two - maybe even number one in the draft and now he’s fallen.

Senneke’s intruiging because of the growth for sure. It puts him on the radar because size matters. He had a strong second half and teams are looking at potential. Maybe there’s a little more risk here but calling Iginla blue chip and Sennecke a ‘mystery box’ is overstating things.

I said Iginla was the surest thing between the two to become a 30 goals 30 assists forward. Not exactly what I would call a blue chipper.

I wouldn't be upset at any of Catton, Lindstrom, Demidov or Iginla for that matter. You can even add Buium and Dickinson to this list.

And yes, Sennecke is a complete mystery box. He plays weird, he's often disengaged, he beats defenders in a way that is pretty much impossible to do consistently in the NHL in juniors, and despite all that, he still has not proven he's a dominant offensive player statistically wise. Like mrb1p said earilier in this said, the same stuff is getting repeated ad nauseam by the same 2 or 3 people in this thread. That he has the best hands in the draft, that he has game-breaking potential, that he's all this and all that. And then when you ask questions about his sub-par offensive output, all you get as an answer is "muh growth spurt" or "muh Scheifele".

I'm sorry, this just doesn't add up. This is playing a game of 4D chess when there's no need to, really.

In a parallel universe where we drafted Leonard and where we'd have a pick in the 10-13 range, I'd say hell. Why not.

But at 5th overall, sitting on a literally empty forwards prospects pool, with a guy like Iginla who's pretty much as safe a bet as you can take? Come on... we're just trying to make a hard exercise even harder on ourselves.

We're at a point where people here are saying that Joshua Roy is our best forward prospect. We REALLY don't have to make this that complicated. Get the guy who has the highest shot at playing on your top-6 someday and call it a day.

I said it earlier and I'll say it again; with a pick that high there is such a thing called risk management. And Sennecke is a hell of a risky pick whether people here want to admit it or not. You're betting on him turning into a completely different player than he is now, because what he is now is never going to cut it in the NHL.

 

[ReHabs]

You are free to believe whatever you want but were several reports regarding his problematic attitude and nothing is more damning than what former NHLer and a fellow Russian, Andrei Nikolishin, who works for the Caps said about Michkov's attitude:
"Nikolishin told the Slippery Ice Podcast last week, as translated by Google Translate. "I can show correspondence when I wanted to meet him and, as a scout, ask a few questions and do an interview... I have not seen such disrespect for other people in my life.
For me, he's first or second [based on skill]," Nikolishin added. "But in character, in relation to teammates, coaching staff, management, fans -- a person has now fallen very low in the eyes of all scouts, all managers."

There is more on Michkov's attitude from other sources in the article.

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/washington-capitals/takes/washington-capitals-andrei-nikolishin-scout-concerns-matvei-michkov-nhl-draft

The reply by Marty Lapointe at the post-draft presser to the question of why they took Reibacker over Michkov - "We are trying to build a culture here" - all but confirms it. And if there is a team with inside info on MIchkov, it has to be the Habs due to Bobrov's dad working for SKA.

You cite the same piece twice — and ignore other people who said he’s a perfectly fine person and find the criticism of his character uncalled for. Goes to show your bias.

I never said he’s a perfect character, but I do think nonsense said about him pre-draft was no more than hysterical smears.

We’ll know as he enters the NHL. It’s not worth bickering about today.

(And I wouldn’t give a rat’s behind what Lapointe the roid head has to say about anybody’s )

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

I'm not touching Lindstrom with a 30 ft pole with the 5th OA pick now with the new reports out. I'm content with one of Iginla or sennecke

 

[jaffy27]

I'm not touching Lindstrom with a 30 ft pole with the 5th OA pick now with the new reports out. I'm content with one of Iginla or sennecke

What reports?

Maybe you have a link?

 

[ReHabs]

What reports?

Maybe you have a link?

The Athletic reported that the mysterious 'back issues' he struggled with was in fact a herniated disk.

 

[Kents polished head]

The Athletic reported that the mysterious 'back issues' he struggled with was in fact a herniated disk.

I mean. I'm no sports therapist. And I assume most teams already knew as much when his stock was reported to be high after the combine.

So I'm not sure it has that much of an impact.

 

[jaffy27]

I mean. I'm no sports therapist. And I assume most teams already knew as much when his stock was reported to be high after the combine.

So I'm not sure it has that much of an impact.

I’m sure, no, I’m certain that teams had this data before The Athletic

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

What reports?

Maybe you have a link?

Not official reports but Corey pronman stated it in the athletic podcast. So I guess he reported on it

 

[WeThreeKings]

Not official reports but Corey pronman stated it in the athletic podcast. So I guess he reported on it

He did and he said doctors felt more comfortable about it after the combine.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

You are free to believe whatever you want but were several reports regarding his problematic attitude and nothing is more damning than what former NHLer and a fellow Russian, Andrei Nikolishin, who works for the Caps said about Michkov's attitude:
"Nikolishin told the Slippery Ice Podcast last week, as translated by Google Translate. "I can show correspondence when I wanted to meet him and, as a scout, ask a few questions and do an interview... I have not seen such disrespect for other people in my life.
For me, he's first or second [based on skill]," Nikolishin added. "But in character, in relation to teammates, coaching staff, management, fans -- a person has now fallen very low in the eyes of all scouts, all managers."

There is more on Michkov's attitude from other sources in the article.

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/washington-capitals/takes/washington-capitals-andrei-nikolishin-scout-concerns-matvei-michkov-nhl-draft

The reply by Marty Lapointe at the post-draft presser to the question of why they took Reibacker over Michkov - "We are trying to build a culture here" - all but confirms it. And if there is a team with inside info on MIchkov, it has to be the Habs due to Bobrov's dad working for SKA.

Taking one source's word as gospel for anyone's character is insane behaviour for anyone who has ever had social interaction.

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

Interesting blog about herniated discs and hockey players. The Lumbar Disc Herniation & Hockey Athletes - Remi Sovran

The prognosis is rather discouraging, though who knows, perhaps orthopedics will get better over time.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

Interesting blog about herniated discs and hockey players. The Lumbar Disc Herniation & Hockey Athletes - Remi Sovran

The prognosis is rather discouraging, though who knows, perhaps orthopedics will get better over time.

Not a doctor obviously but having known people with herniated discs it makes me pretty hesitant to take a chance like that.

Back injuries really suck.

 

[Trabdy2]

I said Iginla was the surest thing between the two to become a 30 goals 30 assists forward. Not exactly what I would call a blue chipper.

I wouldn't be upset at any of Catton, Lindstrom, Demidov or Iginla for that matter. You can even add Buium and Dickinson to this list.

And yes, Sennecke is a complete mystery box. He plays weird, he's often disengaged, he beats defenders in a way that is pretty much impossible to do consistently in the NHL in juniors, and despite all that, he still has not proven he's a dominant offensive player statistically wise. Like mrb1p said earilier in this said, the same stuff is getting repeated ad nauseam by the same 2 or 3 people in this thread. That he has the best hands in the draft, that he has game-breaking potential, that he's all this and all that. And then when you ask questions about his sub-par offensive output, all you get as an answer is "muh growth spurt" or "muh Scheifele".

I'm sorry, this just doesn't add up. This is playing a game of 4D chess when there's no need to, really.

In a parallel universe where we drafted Leonard and where we'd have a pick in the 10-13 range, I'd say hell. Why not.

But at 5th overall, sitting on a literally empty forwards prospects pool, with a guy like Iginla who's pretty much as safe a bet as you can take? Come on... we're just trying to make a hard exercise even harder on ourselves.

We're at a point where people here are saying that Joshua Roy is our best forward prospect. We REALLY don't have to make this that complicated. Get the guy who has the highest shot at playing on your top-6 someday and call it a day.

I said it earlier and I'll say it again; with a pick that high there is such a thing called risk management. And Sennecke is a hell of a risky pick whether people here want to admit it or not. You're betting on him turning into a completely different player than he is now, because what he is now is never going to cut it in the NHL.

I think Sennecke often looks weird because of his creativity. He tries things that other players without his vision or tools/skill might even attempt. And sometimes they work out. It's not like all his success has come from plays like this though.

I think it's a quality you like to see in a prospect as long as it isn't frequently costing his team chances and goals against. It shows they have ideas and they have the skill level to do things that defenders can't predict and other players can't even attempt because of their lack of skill/vision. When in the hands of a proper development team, it gives a great "canvas" to work with. They can help him with decision making and knowing when to follow a routine/safe/system play, and when to take the creative risks. I think this is where the game breaking potential exists.

I think Sennecke's skating, hockey sense, hands, shot and physical ability all project to NHL quality. It's just about filling out his frame and maturing his habits before he becomes an NHL player, and this is something that every pretty much every player in this draft (not named Celebrini) will need to improve upon to a greater or lesser degree before they can be successful in the NHL.

 

[Scintillating10]

Interesting blog about herniated discs and hockey players. The Lumbar Disc Herniation & Hockey Athletes - Remi Sovran

The prognosis is rather discouraging, though who knows, perhaps orthopedics will get better over time.

I wouldn't risk drafting Lindstrom. That article didn't sound good. Nathan Horton, Joffrey Lupul had same injury.

 

[Team_Spirit]

Yeah that's why hockey players are big on yoga, core training. Most have lower back pain, if you rarely skate you can feel it the next day...

We often see the players wearing lower back support when we see images from the locker room.

Lindstrom will fall

What’s Up With Low Back Pain? - Minnesota Hockey Magazine

TRIA provides some answers

minnesotahockeymag.com

 

[le_sean]

You cite the same piece twice — and ignore other people who said he’s a perfectly fine person and find the criticism of his character uncalled for. Goes to show your bias.

I never said he’s a perfect character, but I do think nonsense said about him pre-draft was no more than hysterical smears.

We’ll know as he enters the NHL. It’s not worth bickering about today.

(And I wouldn’t give a rat’s behind what Lapointe the roid head has to say about anybody’s )

Who said he’s a fine person? Daniel Briere?

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

Who said he’s a fine person? Daniel Briere?

Why would the opinion of some random Capitals scout be worth more than the opinion of a random GM?

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

Not a doctor obviously but having known people with herniated discs it makes me pretty hesitant to take a chance like that.

Back injuries really suck.

Same with me. I would like the player otherwise (though I prefer Demidov and Catton) but the blog cites a specific paper that indicates that players' performance is significantly affected by this injury. Maybe there are better surgeons out there who can improve on those stats, but I find a herniated disc very dissuasive.
Based on 87 NHL players...

• Average games played dropped from 56.2 (preinjury) to 39 (post injury)
• Averages point per game dropped from 0.22 (preinjury) to 0.17 (post injury)
• Performance score dropped from 0.79 (preinjury) to 0.46 (post injury)

Edit:
Schroeder, G. D., McCarthy, K. J., Micev, A. J., Terry, M. A., & Hsu, W. K. (2013). Performance-based outcomes after nonoperative treatment, discectomy, and/or fusion for a lumbar disc herniation in national hockey league athletes.The American Journal of Sports Medicine, 41(11), 2604-2608.

Note: it dates from 2013, so maybe surgical outcomes have improved, but this is a major load-bearing area, and surgeons cannot perform miracles.

 

[le_sean]

Why would the opinion of some random Capitals scout be worth more than the opinion of a random GM?

Yeah why would the GM that drafted him lie?

We have Ryan Kennedy of The Hockey News saying there were character concerns. Mathias Brunet echoed the same sentiment. Ray Whitney talked about how some SKA teammates didn’t like him. Caps Russian scout saying he’s a shithead. Grier saying they didn’t want him, Hughes and company didn’t want him, he didn’t even bother meeting with the Coyotes.

It’s a lot more than one scout.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

Yeah why would the GM that drafted him lie?

We have Ryan Kennedy of The Hockey News saying there were character concerns. Mathias Brunet echoed the same sentiment. Ray Whitney talked about how some SKA teammates didn’t like him. Caps Russian scout saying he’s a shithead. Grier saying they didn’t want him, Hughes and company didn’t want him, he didn’t even bother meeting with the Coyotes.

It’s a lot more than one scout.

Why would the opinion of a scout that didn't draft him be worth anything? Let's not act like every top player in the NHL is Bergeron lmao, there are plenty of guys who you'd think are assholes if you met them but are still great players.

 

[le_sean]

Why would the opinion of a scout that didn't draft him be worth anything? Let's not act like every top player in the NHL is Bergeron lmao, there are plenty of guys who you'd think are assholes if you met them but are still great players.

I just gave you a list of 7 people/teams that said there was something wrong with his character. Are all 7 lying and Sanny from HFboards who has never met him right?

Why would random people drag him through the mud for no good reason? What’s the benefit? Just accept that he’s an arrogant shithead. Not meeting with a team that has a chance to draft you is pathetic. Even Bedard took the time to meet with his requested interviews. He had no reason to meet with the Habs and he did it.

 

[sampollock]

I'm not touching Lindstrom with a 30 ft pole with the 5th OA pick now with the new reports out. I'm content with one of Iginla or sennecke

New reports??

 

[McGees]

There are a lot of thoughts on this thread but all I know FOR SURE is my guy is better than your guy.

#BustyMcBusterson

 

[BeliveauFan4ever]

Honestly we have gotten to the part of the discourse where everyone has dug in on their guys and won't change their opinion.

Most of the recent posts have been the guy I like has no risk and is guaranteed to be this and the guy I don't like has big risk and isn't the guarantee people who like him think he is.

And this draft maybe moreso than most screams “don’t get locked in on any one player.”

Only San Jose fans have that ticket.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I said Iginla was the surest thing between the two to become a 30 goals 30 assists forward. Not exactly what I would call a blue chipper.

I wouldn't be upset at any of Catton, Lindstrom, Demidov or Iginla for that matter. You can even add Buium and Dickinson to this list.

And yes, Sennecke is a complete mystery box. He plays weird, he's often disengaged, he beats defenders in a way that is pretty much impossible to do consistently in the NHL in juniors, and despite all that, he still has not proven he's a dominant offensive player statistically wise. Like mrb1p said earilier in this said, the same stuff is getting repeated ad nauseam by the same 2 or 3 people in this thread. That he has the best hands in the draft, that he has game-breaking potential, that he's all this and all that. And then when you ask questions about his sub-par offensive output, all you get as an answer is "muh growth spurt" or "muh Scheifele".

I'm sorry, this just doesn't add up. This is playing a game of 4D chess when there's no need to, really.

In a parallel universe where we drafted Leonard and where we'd have a pick in the 10-13 range, I'd say hell. Why not.

But at 5th overall, sitting on a literally empty forwards prospects pool, with a guy like Iginla who's pretty much as safe a bet as you can take? Come on... we're just trying to make a hard exercise even harder on ourselves.

We're at a point where people here are saying that Joshua Roy is our best forward prospect. We REALLY don't have to make this that complicated. Get the guy who has the highest shot at playing on your top-6 someday and call it a day.

I said it earlier and I'll say it again; with a pick that high there is such a thing called risk management. And Sennecke is a hell of a risky pick whether people here want to admit it or not. You're betting on him turning into a completely different player than he is now, because what he is now is never going to cut it in the NHL.

We all saw your rant. I'm not going to dissect it.

Totally fine to not like a player. Totally fine to be skeptical. But you're way over the top here.