HF Habs: 2024 NHL Draft Thread

[SlafySZN]

So what is all happening day to day at the combine.....seminars, meetings, etc...? When should some meaningful info start being released to the masses?

Arpon Basu and Godin were leaving for the combine this morning. So i would guess tomorrow/thursday.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

Who should the Canadiens select with the fifth overall pick?

The 2024 NHL Draft is wide open after Macklin Celebrini. We take a look at the forwards likely to be available for the Habs at 5, and who they should take.

www.habseyesontheprize.com

Can't believe they left out Helenius

 

[bopeep]

So what is all happening day to day at the combine.....seminars, meetings, etc...? When should some meaningful info start being released to the masses?

I think it's time to pass around the collection plate and send @Whitesnake down to Buffalo to give us the lowdown on what's really happening at the combine. Do the intrepid reporter thing - a couple of interviews with prospects and some team brass, get drunk at the hotel lounge, get into a heated discussion about BPA, thrown in jail and asked to leave the country by morning...

 

[RationalExpectations]

You said we have Guhle and Reinbacher as top pair d-men. So all you need are 2nd and 3rd pair d-men. On the left side for those two pairs we have Matheson, Hutson, Struble, Harris, Engstrom, and Xhekaj. On the right side we Kovacevic (3rd pair), Barron, Mailloux and Konyushkov. David Savard for the time being.

Now do that exercise for the top two lines. 1st line: Suz, Slaf and maybe Caufield. I was a big fan of CC but I'm starting to think he'd be better suited for the 2nd line. On that 2nd line we have Dach and maybe Newhook and Roy. That's it!

Now tell me again we need d-men.

First I said top 4 Guhle and Reinbacher, who can say if they ll be true top 2 on a winning team ?. I did not say we need Dmen absolutely I said draft BPA, don t give up for the next Hughes because you have the next McDonagh. I don t know how I can make myself more clear.

 

[RationalExpectations]

You only draft the D if you think you are actually getting the BPA and not reaching. Just because there are 6 D to choose from, it don't mean they will all be top pairing studs.

I'm OK with taking a top 6F with a shot at top line forward vs a top 4D with a shot at top pairing. The goal here is to take the guy we feel will develop the most and be the best. If you take a player you like and help them develop into what you think they can be, success.

Dickinson, Demidov, Iggy, Lindstrom are my BPA's after Celebrini. Others have more D in that mix? Sure, can't blame them too much but lets stop for a second and consider how many top paring D and top line forwards are there in this draft? It's not 6+

That is exactly what I mean lol. We each have our ranking and I really like Buium Dickinson before the forwards, i.e. If they drop to 5, I would take them. We are saying the same thing, don t draft for need.

I have never said any propsect is a sure top 2 or a sure 1st liner, just that if you have Buium Guhle Reinbacher you have more chance to have one of them becoming a true 1st D than if you only have 2 of them, that s just basic maths

 

[bleuetbio]

Trading down to 9 isnt for me either except if Calgaryaccept to waive the clause for next year pick and giving up their own pick and not Florida. I dont think they'll do it but who knows how much they want Iggy

 

[Skip Bayless]

More and more I get the sense that the Demigod will fall to us.

 

[Habs Halifax]

That is exactly what I mean lol. We each have our ranking and I really like Buium Dickinson before the forwards, i.e. If they drop to 5, I would take them. We are saying the same thing, don t draft for need.

I have never said any propsect is a sure top 2 or a sure 1st liner, just that if you have Buium Guhle Reinbacher you have more chance to have one of them becoming a true 1st D than if you only have 2 of them, that s just basic maths

I'm not sure with Buium but I do like him as a top 4D. Dickinson is the one I can see top pairing quality. I understand the D BPA narrative but I am just not sure there are that many top pairing guys. My BPA at 5 is one of Dickinson, Demidov, Iggy, Lindstrom. Lindstrom a bit behind the others but close. I just don't like his vision/play making

More and more I get the sense that the Demigod will fall to us.

It's more of a possibility than most fans are willing to admit.

 

[Jaynki]

Sennecke over Iginla… j’ai mon voyage

Both are great options.

I love Iginla intangibles and name obviously. He feels like an obvious easy pick.

But Sennecke might have better hands than Demidov and the skill level and ultimate upside is the highest of the bunch in my opinion.

He is indeed more raw tho.

Dont have your voyage. Consider us lucky we may have a choice between both.

 

[The Great Weal]

Everybody that gets 50% secondary assists will have great production.

You can keep narrowing your production criteria all you want to minimize the difference, Heiskanen is lightyears ahead offensively. Like I said, Guhle outproduced as a 20 year old leading to the Stanley Cup Finals while when Guhle was a 20 year old in the WHL playoffs he was tied for 5th in points.

I think people are using total production to explain a reasoning, I don't think people actually evaluate Guhle as not creative. Guhle will go as far as Marty will permit, which is probably not very far since he's seen less PP time than Xhekaj.

Guhle's game has never been around offense. Playing him on the PP won't make his production sky rocket, he wasn't even really productive in junior.

Also, the difference between Lindholm and Heiskanen is not big.

One's a Norris candidate while the other is a #2/3, I'd say that's a massive difference

Lindholm is good enough to be a 1D on a good team, as he proved from 14 to 18.

Lindholm was not the 1D on the Ducks, Fowler was. That being said, 4 of the Ducks dmen at that time had similar ice time between 20-23 min, but Fowler still led them.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Would anyone be willing to drop to #9 if Cal traded up for Iginla. Not sure what the sweetener would be. Still get one of Senneke, Catton, Eiserman. This is if Demidov & Lindstrom are off the board.

Do you believe Hughes when he says he might trade down if LD is next up on their board?

Same answer.

Celebrini
Demidov
Levshunov
Lindstrom
———
Dickinson?
———

If they don’t want a LD, then take advantage of Calgary’s desire to draft a 2nd generation player.
( then be aggressive in moving up near top 15 ).

 

[TheBuriedHab]

Only if Lindstrom's medicals are bad.

Right now it looks like the sense is Demidov-Lindstrom-Sennecke in that order.



I can see it but it's not Dickinson, it's Levshunov.

- Russian factor is there, it's not a big factor but it's there.
- Demidov is a smaller winger with not great skating, this isn't the best combination with their already smaller forward group.
- Demidov has played in the MHL two years in a row, not a lot of viewings against high level competition
- They have live viewings of Levshunov, they don't have live viewings of Demidov.
- They have a big hole on right defense and for a #1 defenseman and we know teams value defenseman over wingers 95% of the time.
- Blackhawks are in a multi-year rebuild and if you forecast the next draft, it's barren on defense but full of skilled forwards and skilled forwards with size.



What if the internal evaluation of Hutson, Engstrom and Xhekaj are higher than yours?

What if the internal evaluation of Buium and Dickinson are lower than yours?

You don't draft Buium because you already like what you have on the left side and you aren't as bullish on him. I'm not that bullish on Buium and a bunch of other teams obvious aren't either, otherwise he'd be viewed a lot higher on the NHL affiliated lists than he is.



Ducks will be looking at Levshunov/Silayev/Dickinson they need a big, rangy, defensive oriented defenseman to help insulate Mintyukov and Zellweger. They already have MacTavish, Terry, Carlsson, Zegras and Gauthier up front.



So two examples of a defenseman for forward trade in the last, what, 10 years?

This is a fallacy that it's so easy to find a match if you have too many defenseman to flip them for a forward.



That was his own personal list, it's his mock draft that is influenced by what he is hearing. That being said, the noise around Sennecke is legit and Pronman described him as having loud tools, which he does.

I think it's a bit too black and white to say only his mock drafts are influenced by what he hears. I think there is a mix of both. Like Yakemchuk being so high on his list all year to me screams he heard something from nhl scouts.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You can keep narrowing your production criteria all you want to minimize the difference, Heiskanen is lightyears ahead offensively. Like I said, Guhle outproduced as a 20 year old leading to the Stanley Cup Finals while when Guhle was a 20 year old in the WHL playoffs he was tied for 5th in points.

Guhle's game has never been around offense. Playing him on the PP won't make his production sky rocket, he wasn't even really productive in junior.

One's a Norris candidate while the other is a #2/3, I'd say that's a massive difference

Lindholm was not the 1D on the Ducks, Fowler was. That being said, 4 of the Ducks dmen at that time had similar ice time between 20-23 min, but Fowler still led them.

Well said. I 100% agree. Jumping on Matheson's back because he is running our PP and doing well while wanting more offensive usage for Guhle reminds me of devaluing Danault because we had KK. When they are ready, they are ready. This is not a junior league.

Guhle is more of a D guy. He's still going to put up some points but his focus is being effective at both ends. His time will come on the PP and you better bet they tried a few things in practice as well.

 

[Mrb1p]

You can keep narrowing your production criteria all you want to minimize the difference, Heiskanen is lightyears ahead offensively. Like I said, Guhle outproduced as a 20 year old leading to the Stanley Cup Finals while when Guhle was a 20 year old in the WHL playoffs he was tied for 5th in points.

Guhle's game has never been around offense. Playing him on the PP won't make his production sky rocket, he wasn't even really productive in junior.

One's a Norris candidate while the other is a #2/3, I'd say that's a massive difference

Lindholm was not the 1D on the Ducks, Fowler was. That being said, 4 of the Ducks dmen at that time had similar ice time between 20-23 min, but Fowler still led them.

Out to lunch on this one lil bro.

Heiskanens playoff production was a massive outlier until last year, it's entirely possible to attribute it to unsustainable production/luck.

You're ignoring Guhle's game, and how he was and is used. Heiskanen gets a lot of offensive opportunities, whereas even in WHL Guhle got heavy defensive assignments. Despite this, Guhle finished only four point short of Dylan Guenther, who's pretty much a clear shot at a first line high-offense winger.

Again, he doesn't even need to be Heiskanen and I've said a couple times I don't think Guhle gets to that level, but to act like he's a 2-3 type when he's not far off Heiskanen relatively is a bit asinine. He's at the very worst a top 30-35 D in the league, at best he might crack the top 10.

 

[Skip Bayless]

It's more of a possibility than most fans are willing to admit.

From what I hear, teams are not as high on him as most fans are. There doesn't seem to be as clear separation between him and the top Ds + Lindstrom and Iggy.

 

[Mrb1p]

Well said. I 100% agree. Jumping on Matheson's back because he is running our PP and doing well while wanting more offensive usage for Guhle reminds me of devaluing Danault because we had KK. When they are ready, they are ready. This is not a junior league.

Guhle is more of a D guy. He's still going to put up some points but his focus is being effective at both ends. His time will come on the PP and you better bet they tried a few things in practice as well.

Was Slaf ready when he moved to the top line? Was Caufield ready when he moved to the top line? Opporutiny and investing in a player, especially on a losing team is much more important than gimme points to sub-par vets and catering to the fans who can't bear watching a team lose.

Sennecke over Iginla… j’ai mon voyage

I'd go to war with you on this one. This is beyond stupid.

I know you don't like skill and small players but it's just as stupid to say Sennecke over Catton, or even Lindstrom (Unless the injury scare is real.)

There should be no scenario in which Sennecke is picked before any of the 5 top forwards. He's just not it.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Was Slaf ready when he moved to the top line? Was Caufield ready when he moved to the top line? Opporutiny and investing in a player, especially on a losing team is much more important than gimme points to sub-par vets and catering to the fans who can't bear watching a team lose.

Yes, I do think this comes from things they try in practice. If there are positive gains in practice, they try it in games. Guhle was tried on our PP at times. He's just not that good at controlling the puck and gaining entry. Slaf was tried on the PP at times and moved off of it when he struggled. They clearly worked at things in practice before they get obsessive at trying it blindly in actual games... and letting the player struggle.

 

[Mrb1p]

From what I hear, teams are not as high on him as most fans are. There doesn't seem to be as clear separation between him and the top Ds + Lindstrom and Iggy.

Doesn't make them right, like they did with Benson and Michkov last year. It's just even more confirmation that the average NHL management is stupid as f***.

Yes, I do think this comes from things they try in practice. If there are positive gains in practice, they try in in games. Guhle was tried on our PP at times. He's just not that good at controlling the puck and gaining entry. Slaf was tried on the PP at times and moved off of it when he struggled. They clearly worked at things in practice before they get obsessive at trying it blindly in actual games.

Slaf was practicing on the third line until the captain went into the coach's office to tell him he'd take him under his wing.

There's no way out of this one, Slaf directly disproves your point. You can say its a case by case situation, I'll agree.

I'll show you Guhles and Mathesons 5v5 production and then you can flip flop another time. Hint: Guhle outproduced him so far with the Habs, despite getting no offensive opportunities.

 

[The Great Weal]

Out to lunch on this one lil bro.

Aren't you the one only looking at primary even strength points and ignoring everything else?

Heiskanens playoff production was a massive outlier until last year, it's entirely possible to attribute it to unsustainable production/luck.

Lol and I'm out to lunch? Massive outlier for 2 years where he got 73 points in 79 games and had another excellent playoff run (and another one this year). That alone proves it's not an outlier lol. Also I'm not really following your logic. So Heiskanen is a top 3/5 dman in the league according to you, but his production unsustainable/luck for the most part, so why is he a top 3/5 dman in the league if it's not sustainable (which it is)?

You're ignoring Guhle's game, and how he was and is used. Heiskanen gets a lot of offensive opportunities, whereas even in WHL Guhle got heavy defensive assignments. Despite this, Guhle finished only four point short of Dylan Guenther, who's pretty much a clear shot at a first line high-offense winger.

Don't know why you're acting like it's blasphemous to suggest that Heiskanen is better offensively than Guhle regardless of opportunities and ice time.

Again, he doesn't even need to be Heiskanen and I've said a couple times I don't think Guhle gets to that level, but to act like he's a 2-3 type when he's not far off Heiskanen relatively is a bit asinine. He's at the very worst a top 30-35 D in the league, at best he might crack the top 10.

So there is a massive difference between Heiskanen and Lindholm, like I said. Glad you can acknowledge that.

 

[Mrb1p]

Aren't you the one only looking at primary even strength points and ignoring everything else?

Lol and I'm out to lunch? Massive outlier for 2 years where he got 73 points in 79 games and had another excellent playoff run (and another one this year). That alone proves it's not an outlier lol. Also I'm not really following your logic. So Heiskanen is a top 3/5 dman in the league according to you, but his production unsustainable/luck for the most part, so why is he a top 3/5 dman in the league if it's not sustainable (which it is)?

Don't know why you're acting like it's blasphemous to suggest that Heiskanen is better offensively than Guhle regardless of opportunities and ice time.

So there is a massive difference between Heiskanen and Lindholm, like I said. Glad you can acknowledge that.

It's like you didn't even bother reading. You compared their head to head 20 years old season, I gave you context on this one. I said Miros 20 YO post season was an outlier UNTIL his 23 years old season.

I say it's blasphemous to consider the difference between Heiskanen and Guhle (and prime Lindholm, for that matter) massive. It's not. The early career numbers reflect exactly that. Guhle and Lindholm are both top 40 range + Ds at this point in their careers and Lindholm was 20+ in his prime. The difference between 5 to 20ish is not "massive" and it surely isn't enough to keep a team from winning with said player. Case in point being the SCFs defenses right now.

 

[crosbyshow]

You might have your own opinion or draft board, but have you seen any credible list that has Catton in the top 5? 5'-11" and 163 lbs. He's a skill type that will most likely never be gritty. Someone like Suzuki was 185 lbs at the same age as Catton today. The ability to use edge work and cut around guys depends on weight/strength. Do you think Catton is the type to put on muscle and get to 190+? I think we made this mistake with KK. "he will fill into his frame". Personally, I rather take the guy who is already strong and has skill/skating.

I see S Jarvis type. A good top 6F.



I've seen him shy away from contract along the boards in some of the video I have watched and I also think it's the reason why he only got 4 KHL games. He's not ready physically.

Catton is at 5.11 , 175 now. 163 was many months ago. He said it twice already to French medias 3 weeks ago

 

[Ozmodiar]

More and more I get the sense that the Demigod will fall to us.

The Dickinson effect.

 

[The Great Weal]

Hint: Guhle outproduced him so far with the Habs, despite getting no offensive opportunities.

Matheson has 55 EV points in 130 games as a Hab.
Guhle has 40 EV points in 114 games as a Hab.

Even Savard has 3 more EV points than Guhle in 8 more games in the past two seasons.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

It's more of a possibility than most fans are willing to admit.

And then we pass on him for Helenius.

 

[Mrb1p]

Matheson has 55 EV points in 130 games as a Hab.
Guhle has 40 EV points in 114 games as a Hab.

Even Savard has 3 more EV points than Guhle in 8 more games in the past two seasons.

Even strength is 3v3, 4v4, 5v5.