HF Habs: 2024 NHL Draft Thread

[Jaynki]

Not me…maybe we should get a pole going

Have one now and one after the lottery draw.

Agree.

I would be happy with both honestly. Very happy with both. When we make the selection, whoever we pick if it's Tij or Demidov, i will have an extreme dopamine moment.

 

[Semaj49]

It didn't. I get it, but it's not very reassuring. The scare is that small guys playing small will not perform well in playoffs. Draisaitl is enormous. There was not the same kind of concern with him.

Now, the first part of your argument is valid and you are allowed to trust that Catton can be a good playoff performer, but Draisaitl's poor playoff is not the argument to build your case around.

It bothered me that everyone assume that if a player is small he won't be a player performer. Two of the best playoff performers of this generation are small and not physical player: Patrick Kane & Kucherov.

And not just the very ELITE talent, Daniel Brière has been a playoff performer all his career and don't forget last year's Conn Smyth winner: Marchessault.

Even Caufield play great hockey after playing only 10 games in his rookie season.

 

[le_sean]

Again, context matters.

Benson was on an absolutely loaded Winnipeg Ice roster that was by far the top of the league. Catton's situation is the polar opposite.

It was addressed in my post. There’s a difference in the eye test. Supporting cast or not, one was hungry and battled and the other was kept to the outside. Can he change that? I don’t know. Typically players don’t go from perimeter players to warriors.

 

[Schooner Guy]

Again, context matters.

Benson was on an absolutely loaded Winnipeg Ice roster that was by far the top of the league. Catton's situation is the polar opposite.

Everyone understands that Catton doesn't have a juggernaut of a supporting cast. The concern is regarding his overall engagement in these playoffs. Playoffs are a different beast. NHL playoffs are at a whole new level where key players need to pay the price in order to win a championship.

 

[BergevinBurner]

Everyone understands that Catton doesn't have a juggernaut of a supporting cast. The concern is regarding his overall engagement in these playoffs. Playoffs are a different beast. NHL playoffs are at a whole new level where key players need to pay the price in order to win a championship.

I get what you're saying, but the situation those 2 player in were very different.

Benson went into the 2021-22 playoffs as 7th for points on a stacked Winnipeg Ice roster vs an 8th seed. So not only was his team far better, but he was presumably getting easier matchups since the opposition was likely focused on shutting down 6 other threats on top of Benson.

The following season Benson was the point leader for the Ice heading into the playoffs and we saw his playoff PPG drop from 1.53 a year earlier to 1.13. Clearly it's not because he fell off or regressed, but it was probably due to the fact that the opposition was now targeting him with the harder matchups and playing him harder.

 

[Schooner Guy]

I get what you're saying, but the situation those 2 player in were very different.

Benson went into the 2021-22 playoffs as 7th for points on a stacked Winnipeg Ice roster vs an 8th seed. So not only was his team far better, but he was presumably getting easier matchups since the opposition was likely focused on shutting down 6 other threats on top of Benson.

The following season Benson was the point leader for the Ice heading into the playoffs and we saw his playoff PPG drop from 1.53 a year earlier to 1.13. Clearly it's not because he fell off or regressed, but it was probably due to the fact that the opposition was now targeting him with the harder matchups and playing him harder.

We're not talking about points though. We're talking about physical engagement, drive and desire to pay the price in the dirty areas. Benson was a beast for Winnipeg in the playoffs.

 

[le_sean]

I get what you're saying, but the situation those 2 player in were very different.

Benson went into the 2021-22 playoffs as 7th for points on a stacked Winnipeg Ice roster vs an 8th seed. So not only was his team far better, but he was presumably getting easier matchups since the opposition was likely focused on shutting down 6 other threats on top of Benson.

The following season Benson was the point leader for the Ice heading into the playoffs and we saw his playoff PPG drop from 1.53 a year earlier to 1.13. Clearly it's not because he fell off or regressed, but it was probably due to the fact that the opposition was now targeting him with the harder matchups and playing him harder.

Okay then explain Ryder Ritchie. Why did he look better than Catton despite a mediocre regular season and also being on a poor team playing a stacked opponent?

 

[bcv]

Everyone understands that Catton doesn't have a juggernaut of a supporting cast. The concern is regarding his overall engagement in these playoffs. Playoffs are a different beast. NHL playoffs are at a whole new level where key players need to pay the price in order to win a championship.

Full disclosure: I haven’t watch a single playoffs game of Catton this year. However, I have hard time believing this engagement level stuff when he was clearly Canada’s best player at the Hlinka last summer. Ahead of many players available in this draft I might add.

Add to that the level of consistency in his play during the year, and the context of being on shit team playing the 1st seed, and I arrive to the conclusion that there’s not enough evidence in his playing career to question his «engagement» level.

Now, it’s true that he doesn’t fit the profile that Bobrov and co likes for their early picks so I’d be surprised he’s a target for the Habs but that doesn’t mean we need to put him down just for that. He can be both a good prospect and not one that would the Habs’ target.

 

[le_sean]

Full disclosure: I haven’t watch a single playoffs game of Catton this year. However, I have hard time believing this engagement level stuff when he was clearly Canada’s best player at the Hlinka last summer. Ahead of many players available in this draft I might add.

Add to that the level of consistency in his play during the year, and the context of being on shit team playing the 1st seed, and I arrive to the conclusion that there’s not enough evidence in his playing career to question his «engagement» level.

Now, it’s true that he doesn’t fit the profile that Bobrov and co likes for their early picks so I’d be surprised he’s a target for the Habs but that doesn’t mean we need to put him down just for that. He can be both a good prospect and not one that would the Habs’ target.

Charles Hudon dominated the Hlinka once. It doesn’t necessarily mean anything.

A perimeter player doing really well on big ice against his peers. Doesn’t really affect his NHL outlook.

 

[BergevinBurner]

Okay then explain Ryder Ritchie. Why did he look better than Catton despite a mediocre regular season and also being on a poor team playing a stacked opponent?

My exact point is that we shouldn't read into playoffs in juniors too much, there are a lot of factors that play into it. Trying to say player A will be a stud and player B will be a playoff bust due to 1 week of games played at the age of 17 is reactionary.

 

[bcv]

Charles Hudon dominated the Hlinka once. It doesn’t necessarily mean anything.

And a 4 games sample size doesn’t mean anything.

I’m glad we agree on it.

 

[le_sean]

My exact point is that we shouldn't read into playoffs in juniors too much, there are a lot of factors that play into it. Trying to say player A will be a stud and player B will be a playoff bust due to 1 week of games played at the age of 17 is reactionary.

It’s not reactionary when you have a Top 10 pick. You should be scrutinized to the fullest extent.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Okay then explain Ryder Ritchie. Why did he look better than Catton despite a mediocre regular season and also being on a poor team playing a stacked opponent?

Well if you want you can draft Ritchie above Catton at your own risk. Everybody that watched Catton live rave about his commitment and engagement. Continue evaluating him on things he is not. If you want a grinder don't draft him, if you want a player that can create offense for your team he is your guy. If you think Catton is the final product and he won't improve don't select him, if you see the offensive tools and see how he can become with development then he is one of the rare superstar potential in this year draft.
My comparison was always a Barzal/Point type of player.

 

[le_sean]

And a 4 games sample size doesn’t mean anything.

I’m glad we agree on it.

So why did you bring up the Hlinka as an argument for Catton if it doesn’t mean anything?

Well if you want you can draft Ritchie above Catton at your own risk. Everybody that watched Catton live rave about his commitment and engagement. Continue evaluating him on things he is not. If you want a grinder don't draft him, if you want a player that can create offense for your team he is your guy. If you think Catton is the final product and he won't improve don't select him, if you see the offensive tools and see how he can become with development then he is one of the rare superstar potential in this year draft.

Sure if the choice was between Catton and a 4th liner. But it’s not. It’s between Catton and other really good players.

 

[bcv]

So why did you bring up the Hlinka as an argument for Catton if it doesn’t mean anything?

Why did you bring up Catton’s 4 games as an argument?

Also, I spoke about more than just the Hlinka but as usual you argue in bad faith.

 

[le_sean]

Why did you bring up Catton 4 games as an argument?

I didn’t. The concerns have been raised before, notably by Goldenhands. These playoffs further drove home that point.

Also, I spoke about more than just the Hlinka but as usual you argue in bad faith.

Yeah you made a compelling argument by saying “I didn’t watch his playoff games”. But I’m the one arguing in bad faith

 

[bcv]

I didn’t. The concerns have been raised before, notably by Goldenhands. These playoffs further drove home that point.

Talking about all 4 games. He was against all odds, but easily kept to the perimeter. I know he has fanboys, but the concerns are legitimate.

This you?

Anyway, you’re not worth the bandwidth.

Ciao

 

[Team_Spirit]

 

[le_sean]

This you?

Anyway, you’re not worth the bandwidth.

Ciao

Yes, the final sentence “the concerns are legitimate” as if there were concerns before and they are further confirmed by being in the spotlight even more. Keep spinning the argument because you have nothing.

Not my first choice. Pandolfo would have his work cut out for him.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Sure if the choice was between Catton and a 4th liner. But it’s not. It’s between Catton and other really good players.

I don't doubt that Catton will not be appreciated by NHL team and will most likely drop, possibly outside top 10 even. Go take a look at Barzal pre draft hype vs his actual draft rank or even Zach Benson.
I am saying that Catton is a diamond in the rough, he has top offensive attributes. The rest of his game, especially board game, physicality/strength and defensive awareness/commitment are easier to learn than hockey sense, on ice vision, hands, shots and skating. He is a risk, NHL team don't like risk but he has potential to be a steal at some point.

 

[Schooner Guy]

Full disclosure: I haven’t watch a single playoffs game of Catton this year. However, I have hard time believing this engagement level stuff when he was clearly Canada’s best player at the Hlinka last summer. Ahead of many players available in this draft I might add.

Add to that the level of consistency in his play during the year, and the context of being on shit team playing the 1st seed, and I arrive to the conclusion that there’s not enough evidence in his playing career to question his «engagement» level.

Now, it’s true that he doesn’t fit the profile that Bobrov and co likes for their early picks so I’d be surprised he’s a target for the Habs but that doesn’t mean we need to put him down just for that. He can be both a good prospect and not one that would the Habs’ target.

Nobody's saying he isn't a good prospect. Everyone's talking about who to take with the Habs first pick and why. We'd all love to have him in our system but we question taking him where the Habs will pick (likely top 8) simply because we see better options.

You can believe what you want to believe regarding his physical engagement level but there is a lot of discussion right now by draft pundits regarding Catton's will to pay the price in the playoffs.

As for success at the Hlinka tournament, Cam Allen was arguably Canada's best player the previous year and went into the season in the top 10 of many early draft lists. He ended up going in the 5th round and has 9 points this year in the OHL. Not at all the same situation as Catton, but I'm just saying there is always a lot of evolving throughout the draft cycle. Most put a lot of stock in league playoffs.

 

[BergevinBurner]

Eiserman intrigues me a lot. I'd have him in the same tier as Lindstrom, just below Demidov. Lindstrom has concerns over his long-term health and Eiserman has concerns around how much he'll be able to round out his game at BU, but the ceiling of those 2 is way higher than the rest of the pack imo.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Nobody's saying he isn't a good prospect. Everyone's talking about who to take with the Habs first pick and why. We'd all love to have him in our system but we question taking him where the Habs will pick (likely top 8) simply because we see better options.

You can believe what you want to believe regarding his physical engagement level but there is a lot of discussion right now by draft pundits regarding Catton's will to pay the price in the playoffs.

As for success at the Hlinka tournament, Cam Allen was arguably Canada's best player the previous year and went into the season in the top 10 of many early draft lists. He ended up going in the 5th round and has 9 points this year in the OHL. Not at all the same situation as Catton, but I'm just saying there is always a lot of evolving throughout the draft cycle. Most put a lot of stock in league playoffs.

Don't put Cam Allen in the same sentence as Catton please. It's insulting to our intelligence, Cam Allen, showed no progression and had significant question mark about his IQ, awareness and defensive game. Not even a forward to boot.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

I wouldn't really put much stock into Catton's playoffs considering how bad his team is and how overplayed he was all season. I heard the same things about Nylander for years and he's arguably been the Leafs' best playoff performer the last few years.

 

[le_sean]

Habs had two meetings with Parekh and a meeting with Catton (the way it’s worded it might also be twice)