NHL Entry Draft 2024 NHL Draft Talk

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Golden_Jet

Registered User
Sep 21, 2005
25,349
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Can someone explain why they would take Dickinson ahead of Silayev?

I like Dickenson but doesn’t Silayev kind of do everything Dickinson can do but also he’s way bigger?
I don’t think either of them will be relied on for a lot of offence.
Possibly because they haven’t seen him live, also maybe this is part of it,

Silayev’s KHL contract with Novgorod runs until 2026, taking him until he’s 20. He said his plan is to make a decision on what happens next after that, but reports say that he has talked with NHL teams, and there’s a belief around the league that he should make the move over to North America once his current deal ends. It’s not a guarantee by any means
 
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Sens in Process

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Oct 1, 2012
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Please explain how you believe their rankings were wrong about Cutter Gauthier... Wrong how?
First, you are a big consensus guy. In your own terms, you must admit that hockeyprospects had Gauthier much lower on than on Bob's survey. Hockeyprospects rated Gauthier 15th while Bob had him at 5. I do respect that hockeyprospects was bold enough to go against the grain.

I take issue with hockeyprospects ranking because they rated him below the following forwards: Kasper, Lekkerimaki, Savoie, Kemell, Snuggerud, Mcgrorarty and Yurov. I think the we can all agree that he shouldn't of been rated below all those players. You may nitpick one or two, but all 7? Many would even agree that he is the best of the bunch at this stage. Their criticisms of Gauthier were related to his lack of hockey sense and they provide example after example of him failing to execute the more simple play:

If we were to freeze-frame the play as he acquired the puck, we would see that he had several higher percentage options at his disposal. The easiest and best option was for him to be aware enough to see that he had a direct route to the net from just above the goal line, with no one standing in his way.

Also, they were also really down on Brad Lambert compared to the consensus, rating him 29th compared to Bob's listing of 16. Once again, it was his hockey sense that they flagged as the major concern. They gave him a 4 of a possible 9 ranking.

Lambert lacks the hockeysense to help enhance some of the physical tools and it’s to the degree where we are going to have to break down each component of his sense in depth to give you a better understanding of just how limited Lambert can unfortunately be despite having world class abilities in some other areas.

In both cases they wrongly evaluated very toolsy players. Trying to do too much, misreading situations and forcing plays became some kind of fatal flaw in their hockey sense rather than, let's say, chalking it up to youthful over aggression or inexperience or whatever. I am not suggesting that Gauthier and Lambert have elite hockey sense or anything, but hockeyprospects certainly underappreciated these players,

Hockeyprospects is very good at getting into granular detail and sounding very sophisticated in their scouting reports. But in the end, they were kind of off on both guys. Gauthier is considered an elite level prospect and Lambert is highly regarded in some circles these days. Mckeen's and Wheeler rate him around 30 in the top affiliated NHL prospects lists. Wheeler even rates him ahead of Marco Kasper and Joakim Kemell.

I believe hockeyprospects is making similar mistake with Yakemchuk. I have watched Yakemchuk; he will make a beautiful stretch pass or create something out of nothing and the play will die on his teammate's stick time and again. So when he goes cowboy and tries to do it all by himself, rather than lacking hockey sense, maybe he knows that he is the only one on that team that can get it done. It is very hard to abstract someone from their context and this really is the crux of the debate. Is he forcing a play because he lacks hockey sense or is he forcing the play because he knows he is the best option? We will find out in due time.

Also, one thing I noticed about Calgary, the forwards didn't properly support their Dmen in giving them structured options for breakout passes. They kind of left them on an island as they bolted out of the zone. I also think this had something to do the "poor decision making," because the team never presented him with a simple 7 foot breakout pass.

I think this blog post by Mckeen's, with short clips, represents why I like him so much. I don't agree with the bits about his skating. I think his top end speed is good while his bursts need work rather than he other way round: 2024 NHL DRAFT: SCOUTING REPORT (VIDEO + GRADES) - Carter Yakemchuk, D, Calgary Hitmen, WHL
 

Dionysus

Registered User
Oct 7, 2007
5,595
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Around the bend
Possibly because they haven’t seen him live, also maybe this is part of it,

Silayev’s KHL contract with Novgorod runs until 2026, taking him until he’s 20. He said his plan is to make a decision on what happens next after that, but reports say that he has talked with NHL teams, and there’s a belief around the league that he should make the move over to North America once his current deal ends. It’s not a guarantee by any means

People said contract status would be an issue with Michkov as well. Looks like he is coming over.

It seems like there may be more risk picking USNTDP guys recently.

Still lots of unknowns around Silayev. Enticing package though, would be a top choice if available at 7.
 

Golden_Jet

Registered User
Sep 21, 2005
25,349
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People said contract status would be an issue with Michkov as well. Looks like he is coming over.

It seems like there may be more risk picking USNTDP guys recently.

Still lots of unknowns around Silayev. Enticing package though, would be a top choice if available at 7.
Michov only had 1 year left on his deal, not 2,
and the same part still applies, there wasn’t assurances at the time, he was coming over, just like with Silayev. Except in silayev’s case he can’t next year.
 

Sens of Anarchy

Registered User
Jul 9, 2013
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First, you are a big consensus guy. In your own terms, you must admit that hockeyprospects had Gauthier much lower on than on Bob's survey. Hockeyprospects rated Gauthier 15th while Bob had him at 5. I do respect that hockeyprospects was bold enough to go against the grain.

I take issue with hockeyprospects ranking because they rated him below the following forwards: Kasper, Lekkerimaki, Savoie, Kemell, Snuggerud, Mcgrorarty and Yurov. I think the we can all agree that he shouldn't of been rated below all those players. You may nitpick one or two, but all 7? Many would even agree that he is the best of the bunch at this stage. Their criticisms of Gauthier were related to his lack of hockey sense and they provide example after example of him failing to execute the more simple play:



Also, they were also really down on Brad Lambert compared to the consensus, rating him 29th compared to Bob's listing of 16. Once again, it was his hockey sense that they flagged as the major concern. They gave him a 4 of a possible 9 ranking.



In both cases they wrongly evaluated very toolsy players. Trying to do too much, misreading situations and forcing plays became some kind of fatal flaw in their hockey sense rather than, let's say, chalking it up to youthful over aggression or inexperience or whatever. I am not suggesting that Gauthier and Lambert have elite hockey sense or anything, but hockeyprospects certainly underappreciated these players,

Hockeyprospects is very good at getting into granular detail and sounding very sophisticated in their scouting reports. But in the end, they were kind of off on both guys. Gauthier is considered an elite level prospect and Lambert is highly regarded in some circles these days. Mckeen's and Wheeler rate him around 30 in the top affiliated NHL prospects lists. Wheeler even rates him ahead of Marco Kasper and Joakim Kemell.

I believe hockeyprospects is making similar mistake with Yakemchuk. I have watched Yakemchuk; he will make a beautiful stretch pass or create something out of nothing and the play will die on his teammate's stick time and again. So when he goes cowboy and tries to do it all by himself, rather than lacking hockey sense, maybe he knows that he is the only one on that team that can get it done. It is very hard to abstract someone from their context and this really is the crux of the debate. Is he forcing a play because he lacks hockey sense or is he forcing the play because he knows he is the best option? We will find out in due time.

Also, one thing I noticed about Calgary, the forwards didn't properly support their Dmen in giving them structured options for breakout passes. They kind of left them on an island as they bolted out of the zone. I also think this had something to do the "poor decision making," because the team never presented him with a simple 7 foot breakout pass.

I think this blog post by Mckeen's, with short clips, represents why I like him so much. I don't agree with the bits about his skating. I think his top end speed is good while his bursts need work rather than he other way round: 2024 NHL DRAFT: SCOUTING REPORT (VIDEO + GRADES) - Carter Yakemchuk, D, Calgary Hitmen, WHL
Consensus guy because I sided with the 73% NHL scouts on liking Yakemchuk least of the 6 top 2024 D. Sounds good Billy. Bobby Mac rankings are based on the same sort of thing.. where the concensus of 10 NHL scouts is on the prospects.

Questioning wtf was up w Brad Lambert in his draft year was being done all over the place.
So your saying they missed on Gauthier because others had him ranked higher. ok.. if that floats it for you. I asked.

No one scout gets it right across the board. No one scouting service serving public interest gets it right across the board. You can point to any mistake over any number of drafts and use that to say they are wrong about Yakemchuk too. Also sounds good Billy.

Re: McKeens .. I guess you don't agree with them having Dickinson at 3 or with any flaw they may mention on Yakemchuk. You called 17 y/o Sam Dickinson a maxed out athlete as a conclusion to you "watching him" . So there is that.
 
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Sens in Process

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Oct 1, 2012
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Consensus guy because I sided with the 73% NHL scouts on liking Yakemchuk least of the 6 top 2024 D. Sounds good Billy. Bobby Mac rankings are based on the same sort of thing.. where the concensus of 10 NHL scouts is on the prospects.

Questioning wtf was up w Brad Lambert in his draft year was being done all over the place.
So your saying they missed on Gauthier because others had him ranked higher. ok.. if that floats it for you. I asked.

No one scout gets it right across the board. No one scouting service serving public interest gets it right across the board. You can point to any mistake over any number of drafts and use that to say they are wrong about Yakemchuk too. Also sounds good Billy.

Re: McKeens .. I guess you don't agree with them having Dickinson at 3 or with any flaw they may mention on Yakemchuk. You called 17 y/o Sam Dickinson a maxed out athlete as a conclusion to you "watching him" . So there is that.
I don't agree with Mckeen's on Dickinson or Iginla. I also would have Buium ahead of Dickinson. Buium is the guy I really can't get a read on. He is 6'0 , highly intelligent player who is not the best skater. He has great edges, but lacks explosion and top end speed relative to his size. Going back to the podcast that started this. hockeyprospects thinks Buium's supercomputer processing capabilities will overcome his skating deficiencies. I am not totally sold on that, but there are the Adam Fox's of the world out there, so maybe? I believe his size and skating will be a limiting factor. They do not. They also believe Parekh has massive boom or bust potential. I totally agree, but I lean more to the bust side. But if Ottawa took him, I would understand. Hockeyprospects has highlighted Dickinson's creativity and distribution as good and not great, and believe he could be a trigger man on a second unit PP. They believe he is comparable to a Noah Hannifin, who is about a 35 point player. I pretty much agree with everything they are saying, but his offense may be even more limited(not by much) than they are suggesting. I don't think he will ever put up the almost 50 points that Hannfin did one year, which was a career best and a one-off . They don't even think he will be an elite shutdown defensemen in the mold of a Jake Sanderson. Once again, I totally agree. I don't think my opinions are beyond the pale. In most cases, it is the mere matter of degree. I have been basically been arguing a lot of the same things highlighted in hockeyprospects podcast. I can you show multiple posts I made about Buium's skating issues, Parekh's boom or bust potential and Dickinson's lack of offensive creativity.

Scouts were questioning Lambert all over the place. A weird consensus formed that his hockey sense would be a severe limiting factor. I didn't really watch him in his draft year. I actually ruled him out because of all the negativity around him. But in the end, he had a better year in the AHL than Kemell and especially Kasper. As of right now, it appears a large section of the scouting community got the player wrong. I personally thought Kemell would be a better player than has been to this point. Yes, we all get them wrong. I didn't think Dobson would be as good as the player he became. You learn and move on. At the same time, I also got a lot right in the drafts I really dug deep on(2018 and 2020), thinking they were transformational for the organization.

I don't disagree with the flaws Mckeen's identifies with Yakemchuk. He is not a perfect player and there is risk with him. I perfectly understand why you or others don't see him as a suitable target at 7. However, I think the opinions on his hockey sense and skating are exaggerated(not wrong - just overemphasized), and won't be the limiting factors that some scouting services are pushing right now. Once again, it is a matter degree. Even hockeyprospect admits there is a distinct possibility that Yakemchuk could hit and become a bigtime player. They think this scenario is less likely than I do and that is fine.
 
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BondraTime

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Nov 20, 2005
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McKenzie list comes out in a few hours, not expecting much change from his list a month and a hlaf ago.

May List
1. Celebrini
2. Demidov
3. Siliyev
4. Levshunov
5. Lindstrom
6. Dickinson
7. Parekh
8. Buium
9. Helenius
10. Iginla
11. Catton
12. Yakemchuk
13. Eiserman
14. Sennecke
15. Connolly

I'd think it will remain somewhat stagnent. Siliyev and Levshunov may swap places, the Dickinson/Parekh/Buium grouping probably sees a reaaranging, Helenius probably drops towards ~12, Iginla likely jumps up a spot or two, and Sennecke probably jumps a few spots towards 10.

Nevermind: Just saw it was reschedulede for tomorrow which makes sense. That makes sitting in my office much less appealing for the day
 
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Icelevel

During these difficult times...
Sep 9, 2009
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McKenzie list comes out in a few hours, not expecting much change from his list a month and a hlaf ago.

May List
1. Celebrini
2. Demidov
3. Siliyev
4. Levshunov
5. Lindstrom
6. Dickinson
7. Parekh
8. Buium
9. Helenius
10. Iginla
11. Catton
12. Yakemchuk
13. Eiserman
14. Sennecke
15. Connolly

I'd think it will remain somewhat stagnent. Siliyev and Levshunov may swap places, the Dickinson/Parekh/Buium grouping probably sees a reaaranging, Helenius probably drops towards ~12, Iginla likely jumps up a spot or two, and Sennecke probably jumps a few spots towards 10.

Nevermind: Just saw it was reschedulede for tomorrow which makes sense. That makes sitting in my office much less appealing for the day
I’d have it something like,

1 Celebrini
Lindstrom
Demidov
Buium
Silayev
Iginla
7 Dickinson
Catton
Sennecke
10 Levshunov
 
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Crosside

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Aug 1, 2018
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Assuming we’re not picking lower than 12 I’d have it something like,

Celebrini
Lindstrom
Demidov
Buium
Silayev
Iginla
Dickinson
Catton
Sennecke
Levshunov
Helenius
Parekh
Not bad to slide to 12 until Korpisalo is on the trade
 

Sens of Anarchy

Registered User
Jul 9, 2013
66,695
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Gauthier looks to be well worth the 5th he was taken with. They were quite a bit lower on him having him 15th

Not that a singular ranking is much of an indicator because it isn’t, but they were “off” on him thus far
Have to agree 15 is low on him given the size, tools, relative to the class and his success so far.
 

Agent Zuuuub

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Jan 2, 2015
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Chabot is not an elite offensive defenseman, and that is the part of his game that he is good at.

Sanderson has his hands full shutting down the opposition's best forwards.

That's why we should draft Parekh. If we are able to do it by dropping down to 12, getting assets, and getting the highest IQ prospect, it would be a coup.
 

senswon

Quo Tendimus
Aug 1, 2007
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Chabot is not an elite offensive defenseman, and that is the part of his game that he is good at.

Sanderson has his hands full shutting down the opposition's best forwards.

That's why we should draft Parekh. If we are able to do it by dropping down to 12, getting assets, and getting the highest IQ prospect, it would be a coup.
We need beeef on the backend.
We don't have anyone to clear the net. Can't see us drafting another smallish rover with motor issues and no idea what to do in our d zone.
If we drop to 12, I'm expecting Yakemchuk//Solberg or someone of that ilk.

But would be fine with us trading Chabot along with Chychrun.
We could use some nasty mean players desperately.
 

Loach

Registered User
Jun 9, 2021
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We need beeef on the backend.
We don't have anyone to clear the net. Can't see us drafting another smallish rover with motor issues and no idea what to do in our d zone.
If we drop to 12, I'm expecting Yakemchuk//Solberg or someone of that ilk.

But would be fine with us trading Chabot along with Chychrun.
We could use some nasty mean players desperately.
Beeeef. Solberg.
 

Agent Zuuuub

Registered User
Jan 2, 2015
14,792
12,127
We need beeef on the backend.
We don't have anyone to clear the net. Can't see us drafting another smallish rover with motor issues and no idea what to do in our d zone.
If we drop to 12, I'm expecting Yakemchuk//Solberg or someone of that ilk.

But would be fine with us trading Chabot along with Chychrun.
We could use some nasty mean players desperately.

So? You can get beef in FA or with solid pro scouting, or later round picks like Kleven or Ostapchuck.

What sets up the best teams for long term success is drafting elite talents especially at the top of the draft, not beef.

If we get Parekh + 2nd rounder for 7th ovr.

And then with the 2nd get a big defensive toolsy defenceman, that would be so so much better than just getting Dickinson or Yakemchuck.
 
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Loach

Registered User
Jun 9, 2021
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So? You can get beef in FA or with solid pro scouting, or later round picks like Kleven or Ostapchuck.

What sets up the best teams for long term success is drafting elite talents especially at the top of the draft, not beef.

If we get Parekh + 2nd rounder for 7th ovr.

And then with the 2nd get a big defensive toolsy defenceman, that would be so so much better than just getting Dickinson or Yakemchuck.
So this kid is your new Karlsson?
 
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SensFactor

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Oct 25, 2008
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Ottawa
Ottawa first-round draft busts since 2005:
  • Brian Lee (2005 9th OA)
  • Jim O'Brian (2007 29th OA)
  • Jared Cowen (2009 9th OA)
  • Matt Puempel (2011 24th OA)
  • Colin White (2015 21st OA)
  • Logan Brown (2016 11th OA)
  • Shane Bowers (2017 28th OA)
  • Jacob Bernard-Docker (2018 26th OA)
  • Lassi Thomson (2019 19th OA)
  • Tyler Boucher (2021 10th OA)
 

Tuna99

Registered User
Sep 26, 2009
15,470
7,441
McKenzie list comes out in a few hours, not expecting much change from his list a month and a hlaf ago.

May List
1. Celebrini
2. Demidov
3. Siliyev
4. Levshunov
5. Lindstrom
6. Dickinson
7. Parekh
8. Buium
9. Helenius
10. Iginla
11. Catton
12. Yakemchuk
13. Eiserman
14. Sennecke
15. Connolly

I'd think it will remain somewhat stagnent. Siliyev and Levshunov may swap places, the Dickinson/Parekh/Buium grouping probably sees a reaaranging, Helenius probably drops towards ~12, Iginla likely jumps up a spot or two, and Sennecke probably jumps a few spots towards 10.

Nevermind: Just saw it was reschedulede for tomorrow which makes sense. That makes sitting in my office much less appealing for the day

My guess is Senecke is top 7 on Bobs list and a target of the Sens
 

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