Senator Stanley
Registered User
Somebody get Don Boyd an Athletic subscription.
"They switched their draft focus from size to skill."
"They switched their draft focus from size to skill."
Year after year it’s like this. Though this years is especially magnifiquèWow...
Yakemchuk 39th
Sennecke 31st
Silayev 20th
Paerekh 18th
Dickenson 14th
Those are definitely some bold rankings.
The Dallas D-core:Somebody get Don Boyd an Athletic subscription.
"They switched their draft focus from size to skill."
There are three three sources I generally avoid: Elite Prospects(Cam Robinson included), Scouching and Wheeler.Scouchings list is as good as ever
The Dallas D-core:
Hartley: Height 6.04 -- Weight 206
Heiskanen: Height 6.02 -- Weight 197
Lindell: Height 6.03 -- Weight 216
Tanev: Height 6.02 -- Weight 193
Suetr: Height 6.01 -- Weight 201
Petrovic: Height 6.05 -- Weight 208
Dallas is a big team. They have several monster forwards as well with skill, including recently drafted Wyatt Johnson, who is big and fast.
Yes I am all for having a big, fast, and skilled team like Dallas. All that size allows them to incorporate some smallish players.
And they took a guy like Stankoven at 47, for a player of his size, I think it is an appropriate place to gamble.
I think size is much more important on defence than on forward. At forward I'd place the same level of emphasis but on foot speed.The Dallas D-core:
Hartley: Height 6.04 -- Weight 206
Heiskanen: Height 6.02 -- Weight 197
Lindell: Height 6.03 -- Weight 216
Tanev: Height 6.02 -- Weight 193
Suetr: Height 6.01 -- Weight 201
Petrovic: Height 6.05 -- Weight 208
Dallas is a big team. They have several monster forwards as well with skill, including recently drafted Wyatt Johnson, who is big and fast.
Yes I am all for having a big, fast, and skilled team like Dallas. All that size allows them to incorporate some smallish players.
And they took a guy like Stankoven at 47, for a player of his size, I think it is an appropriate place to gamble.
I wouldn't use any of the lists other than looking at them to see what they're doing this time around.There are three three sources I absolutely avoid: Elite Prospects(Cam Robinson included), Scouching and Wheeler.
The RIGHT balance is key. The RIGHT balance is not 50/50. Balance implies 50/50.Nobody is saying it has to be one or the other. It's about striking the right balance. We haven't valued skill highly enough for years.
"We’ve made mistakes, too. But we’ve self-evaluated and we changed our philosophy a little bit. We started to see a shift in the game and we started to focus a little bit more on the skill side." - Jim Nill
Meh. They all watch more of these prospects than me. Which is the argument I use every year. I know sens scouts won’t have the same lists. But still fun to watch their videos and of these playersThere are three three sources I generally avoid: Elite Prospects(Cam Robinson included), Scouching and Wheeler.
The Dallas D-core:
Hartley: Height 6.04 -- Weight 206
Heiskanen: Height 6.02 -- Weight 197
Lindell: Height 6.03 -- Weight 216
Tanev: Height 6.02 -- Weight 193
Suetr: Height 6.01 -- Weight 201
Petrovic: Height 6.05 -- Weight 208
You passed on Yakemchuk with our #7 pick and on Charlie Ellick with Boston's pick; I am surprised by that.Getting lucky in the draft & having the right kind of players is sooooo tricky, some turn out as projected & some don't ..... c'est la vie. Injuries have derailed a lot of good players as well as we know. I like size at both forward & defence especially when guys also have skilled associated with their size (Stone/Tkachuk). When we watch the playoffs especially that Florida/Rangers series we can see how tough it is, how hard they hit & how they are constantly trying to intimidate skilled players. Some guys like Marner seem to get intimidated in the playoffs while others revel in it. You need guys who can adjust their game to play it anyway it tends to flow & that's not easy with some skilled smaller players.
I think the Sens will take a D in this draft & I think it could come down to Parekh RD, Dickinson LD & Yakemchuk RD. I expect that Levshunov RD, Silayev LD & Buium LD might all be gone by 7th but if not will also be in the discussion. My Draft has Ott taking Parekh RD at 7th OA & Parascak RW at 25th OA, Parekh is a RD which Ott need & Parascak is a RW which Ott need to replace Giroux some day. Both are on the small side, but both are also very skilled. Should be a very interesting draft for the Sens especially the first 3 picks. Should also be interesting if Staois trades a player or two for picks at the draft.
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My draft passed on them, I would have taken both. I actually think they should consider trading down to acquire another 2nd rd pick & still get Yakemchuk. I see him as an explosive offensive defenceman who needs work defensively to round out his game to being more dependable in all three zones. Ottawa needs to address hiring a former NHL defenceman to coach their defence, a guy like Luke Richardson would really help Ottawa's defence.You passed on Yakemchuk with our #7 pick and on Charlie Ellick with Boston's pick; I am surprised by that.
Did we upgrade from this bozo of a scout?
Did we upgrade from this bozo of a scout?
Bozo is an unfair description since Mann's tenure as head scout was decent, but it was definitely a bad look for him to come out and say this after the 2021 draft, which was a huge bunt and a miss.
I got the sense that Mann and the staff kind of got too full of themselves after a great 2020 draft. There was a major shift after that draft when size and toughness became the overwhelming focus and it was obvious they tried to be the smartest people in the room far too often.
“If we move back eight spots, is Tyler Boucher still going to be there? You know what? He’s not going to be there. I know that, (general manager) Pierre Dorion knows that, and the general public doesn’t know that. They don’t have to know that, it’s not their job. For us, Tyler Boucher is another step in the Senators getting better and being what we want. I know Tyler Boucher is going to go 10 to 20. I know and the public list doesn’t know what we know.”
Mann said this wasn’t the first time the Senators had taken heat over a draft pick.
“That’s just the reality of it. I’m not saying that’s good or bad. I’m living in the reality of what’s going on, and I know what people are telling me what’s available,” Mann said.
To be fair, if I recall he was responding to the claim that we should have moved back if we wanted Boucher. The point was the team had insight into other teams plans to take Boucher so moving back wasn't really an optionBozo is an unfair description since Mann's tenure as head scout was decent, but it was definitely a bad look for him to come out and say this after the 2021 draft, which was a huge bunt and a miss.
I got the sense that Mann and the staff kind of got too full of themselves after a great 2020 draft. There was a major shift after that draft when size and toughness became the overwhelming focus and it was obvious they tried to be the smartest people in the room far too often.
Jani Hakanpaa 6'7 222 poundsThe Dallas D-core:
Hartley: Height 6.04 -- Weight 206
Heiskanen: Height 6.02 -- Weight 197
Lindell: Height 6.03 -- Weight 216
Tanev: Height 6.02 -- Weight 193
Suetr: Height 6.01 -- Weight 201
Petrovic: Height 6.05 -- Weight 208
Dallas is a big team. They have several monster forwards as well with skill, including recently drafted Wyatt Johnson, who is big and fast.
Yes I am all for having a big, fast, and skilled team like Dallas. All that size allows them to incorporate some smallish players.
And they took a guy like Stankoven at 47, for a player of his size, I think it is an appropriate place to gamble.
I think that quote was more referring to the criticism that Boucher was ranked as a late 1st or early 2nd, and the Senators should have traded down to get him.
He was referring to the intel that at least one other team (rumoured as NYR at 16) were going to select him high. So there wasn't a realistic chance to trade back and get him.
In that respect, the quote is perfectly reasonable. Most fans tend to have a confirmation bias towards players who were ranked high earlier in the process (or for a longer time) and hate when their team selects a riser or goes off the board because they both have a bias towards the players they read about more, but they also have a false perception that trading down and getting your guy works like a PS3 NHL game where the rankings are static.
Teams can usually only trade down when they have wide tiers of players who offer a similar result. Like, a team really needing a puck moving LHD, and there are 3 of them on the board, and half of the next five teams are stacked at D. Yes, they could move down a few spots and still get one of their guys.
Anaheim missed on Karlsson in 2008 because they moved down. If you go by consensus, Ottawa reached on Karlsson. The reality is that more than one team had him high.
Although, it's debatable how high Anaheim in particular were on Karlsson, they missed him by trading down and maximizing their picks. With that said, there were a lot of D on the board so their strategy may have been closer to my second example where they may have seen him as being comparable to Gardiner, which might be why they moved down.
The point is, if a player is the top player on the internal list, teams cannot just move down because a TSN's list has that player as a second rounder. That's not reality, and it doesn't work that way. That's what Mann was referring to.
And who cares if they have the intel that the Rangers want him, if they don't have the intel that there are better players to draft in that position?The difference between Anaheim moving back and missing out on Karlsson and Ottawa moving back and potentially missing out on Boucher, is that Karlsson deserved to go high in the draft while Boucher absolutely did not.
This talk about the Rangers being interested in him always ignores the obvious - the Rangers are the most spoiled team in the league in terms of being able to attract skilled talent to their team, and if there was any team in the league that could have reached for a niche player like Boucher it was them.
Meanwhile as one of the least attractive destinations in the league we are one of the last teams that should have spent a high pick on a player like Boucher. It didn't make any sense at the time and certainly doesn't now with the benefit of hindsight.
The difference ... is that Karlsson deserved to go high in the draft while Boucher absolutely did not.