2024 NHL Draft: Play with no weenie, for Celebrini

[thestonedkoala]

Absence of information isn't proof.

Maybe they felt that a 5'8" CHLer that played 6 games in his draft year might just fall to them in the 2nd? Remember that 2021 was set to be a crazy draft due to lack of information/ability to scout.

Usually if a team is trying to move up, it comes out eventually and nothing has come out.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Usually if a team is trying to move up, it comes out eventually and nothing has come out.

I'm not sure if this is true at all.

 

[Wasted Talent]

Usually if a team is trying to move up, it comes out eventually and nothing has come out.

Unless you're an insider, how would you know about the times when it doesn't come out?

 

[Wabit]

They had Khusnutdinov and Ohgren at center. You also had Bankier, Lorenz, and Haight. I know Khusnutdinov, Haight and Ohgren are smaller than Stramel, but they all pretty much line up as middle 6 guys. Like there are a ton of centers right now for Minnesota, which isn't a bad thing. They also doubled down by picking Kumps and then Heidt.



Ritchie would have been a good pick.

I think the biggest weakness right now for Minnesota is right wing. They have very little in terms of right handed shots.

Ohgren, Lorenz, and Yurov were/are wings. Marat K and Rossi are small and have winger skillsets more than center skillsets in the NHL imo.

I still see center as the 2nd biggest need in the prospect pool behind RD.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Ohgren, Lorenz, and Yurov were/are wings. Marat K and Rossi are small and have winger skillsets more than center skillsets in the NHL imo.

I still see center as the 2nd biggest need in the prospect pool behind RD.

What about Bankier, Haight, Kumps and Heidt?

Also I see right wing as the biggest need behind RD and then center (never can have enough centers). Left wing and left defense is not a huge need.

As much as I dog them, I'm curious to see how Spacek, Masters and Healey develop.

Minnesota literally has what? Yurov as right wing if they keep him there.

Unless you're an insider, how would you know about the times when it doesn't come out?

Generally, if there is a strong interest in moving up it comes out. I remember Russo commenting on a few things in the past that were speculation. Or if they have a strong interest in a prospect or two.

 

[Wabit]

What about Bankier, Haight, Kumps and Heidt?

Also I see right wing as the biggest need behind RD and then center (never can have enough centers). Left wing and left defense is not a huge need.

As much as I dog them, I'm curious to see how Spacek, Masters and Healey develop.

Minnesota literally has what? Yurov as right wing if they keep him there.



Generally, if there is a strong interest in moving up it comes out. I remember Russo commenting on a few things in the past that were speculation. Or if they have a strong interest in a prospect or two.

Kumps and Heidt were drafted after Stramel so I didn't include them in the reasoning for drafting Stramel at teh time.

Bankier and Haight are nice to have in the organization, but I wouldn't count on them as being in the NHL based on their draft positions and previous seasons.

Even Marat K was a question mark if he was going to stay in the KHL or not. IIRC there are a couple more younger KHL players MN has the rights to, but are unlikely to ever play in NA.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

What about Bankier, Haight, Kumps and Heidt?

Also I see right wing as the biggest need behind RD and then center (never can have enough centers). Left wing and left defense is not a huge need.

As much as I dog them, I'm curious to see how Spacek, Masters and Healey develop.

Minnesota literally has what? Yurov as right wing if they keep him there.



Generally, if there is a strong interest in moving up it comes out. I remember Russo commenting on a few things in the past that were speculation. Or if they have a strong interest in a prospect or two.

Bankier and Haight are not big or considered NHL locks, especially at C, Kumpulainen and Heidt were drafted after Stramel. Only Kumpulainen actually projects as a center IMO and it would be likely in a depth role, he is extremely defensive focused. Haight maybe has the brains and work ethic for tweener 2C-3C but kind of projects more as a Swiss Army knife guy, a better Freddy Gaudreau if he hits. If he doesn’t stick at center then you have a middle 6 RW option.

The recent Brackett article had him praising Guerin for his willingness to try and move up and down in the draft, with obvious implications it was from previous draft experience.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I do remember Brackett saying something to the effect that they felt like they had 3 top 20 picks in 2021, so they were obviously very high on Peart. So even if they did trade back up, it still probably wouldn't have been for Stankoven.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Bankier and Haight are not big or considered NHL locks, especially at C,

Cal Clutterbuck wasn't considered big, but he was a heavy player. Haight could end up being sort of like that. Big doesn't necessarily mean anything. You can have a big guy that plays like a marshmallow as well. Maybe Stramel ends up being a power forward or a grinder, or not. Even Dewar wasn't considered a big or even a grinder but ended up like that.

Kumpulainen and Heidt were drafted after Stramel. Only Kumpulainen actually projects as a center IMO and it would be likely in a depth role, he is extremely defensive focused. Haight maybe has the brains and work ethic for tweener 2C-3C but kind of projects more as a Swiss Army knife guy, a better Freddy Gaudreau if he hits. If he doesn’t stick at center then you have a middle 6 RW option.

Heidt also projects as center.

Still think RW, RD and then C should be the play if a guy like Buium doesn't drop.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

This is why I like Helenius' (apparent) C/RW flexibility.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Cal Clutterbuck wasn't considered big, but he was a heavy player. Haight could end up being sort of like that. Big doesn't necessarily mean anything. You can have a big guy that plays like a marshmallow as well. Maybe Stramel ends up being a power forward or a grinder, or not. Even Dewar wasn't considered a big or even a grinder but ended up like that.



Heidt also projects as center.

Still think RW, RD and then C should be the play if a guy like Buium doesn't drop.

Haight plays nothing at all like Clutterbuck, the all time hits leader in the NHL. You aren’t going to change a players nature that meaningfully. Dewar was a willing participant like Haight seems to be, but not in anyway gifted when it comes to physically imposing their will on board battles and puck control.

Heidt is a winger in the NHL IMO, nothing about him projects well as a MN Wild center, if he hits, he takes over Zuccarello’s role as a distributing winger with PP impact.

I am on board with RD, RW, C as general priorities, but don’t care about order, especially for where we are drafting.

 

[thestonedkoala]

This is why I like Helenius' (apparent) C/RW flexibility.

I'm warming up to Helenius because of that.

Haight plays nothing at all like Clutterbuck, the all time hits leader in the NHL. You aren’t going to change a players nature that meaningfully. Dewar was a willing participant like Haight seems to be, but not in anyway gifted when it comes to physically imposing their will on board battles and puck control.

Who knows what the future lies in store for Haight. Dewar and Haight seems to be the same size. Though the Haight - Heidt line did well.

Heidt is a winger in the NHL IMO, nothing about him projects well as a MN Wild center, if he hits, he takes over Zuccarello’s role as a distributing winger with PP impact.

Heidt is pretty damn good at face offs, something Minnesota is lacking.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

I'm warming up to Helenius because of that.


Who knows what the future lies in store for Haight. Dewar and Haight seems to be the same size. Though the Haight - Heidt line did well.

Heidt is pretty damn good at face offs, something Minnesota is lacking.

Face offs in jrs have zero correlation to face offs in the NHL. It’s probably the skill most closely tied to “direct experience necessary.”

 

[thestonedkoala]

Face offs in jrs have zero correlation to face offs in the NHL. It’s probably the skill most closely tied to “direct experience necessary.”

It does mean that they have something to work with.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

It does mean that they have something to work with.

No it really doesn’t, he’s not big enough or strong enough to have any advantage against NHL centers in the Faceoff dot. Pure reaction time doesn’t translate up well at all when you are directly competing against guys with 10,000 plus repetitions.

Raw Faceoff % is almost completely irrelevant when it comes to center success in the NHL IMO. Until they differentiate between clean center wins somehow, it’s just not a center stat that holds any real value. Clean possession on O zone draws is great and does have value as the Blues demonstrated against us, but nothing in Heidt’s profile indicates he would be inordinately successful at that. And the rest of his playstyle and tendencies are that of a winger in the NHL.

 

[keppel146]

I'm warming up to Helenius because of that.


Who knows what the future lies in store for Haight. Dewar and Haight seems to be the same size. Though the Haight - Heidt line did well.

Heidt is pretty damn good at face offs, something Minnesota is lacking.

I thought I saw Heidt lineup a lot at Wing on the PP

 

[Wabit]

I thought I saw Heidt lineup a lot at Wing on the PP

I don't read too much into the position on the PP/PK for FWDs. Team systems, setups, skillset, and personnel dictate that more than anything else imo.

 

[AKL]

I would be shocked if Heidt plays center in the NHL. Luckily we shouldn't need him to if things go well. But probably hang on to Rossi just in case.

 

[keppel146]

I would be shocked if Heidt plays center in the NHL. Luckily we shouldn't need him to if things go well. But probably hang on to Rossi just in case.

Same

 

[Wabit]

I would be shocked if Heidt plays center in the NHL. Luckily we shouldn't need him to if things go well. But probably hang on to Rossi just in case.

Rossi should be a center even less than Heidt...

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Rossi should be a center even less than Heidt...

Rossi just passably did it in the NHL as a rookie.

This is just hanging onto an out-of-date draft opinion.

 

[Digitalbooya]

This is why I like Helenius' (apparent) C/RW flexibility.

I was listening to a Detroit Red Wings podcast the other day and one of the guys said that Helenius screams Minnesota; he’s not bad at anything, but he’s not elite at anything either.

 

[P10p]

What about Bankier, Haight, Kumps and Heidt?

Also I see right wing as the biggest need behind RD and then center (never can have enough centers). Left wing and left defense is not a huge need.

As much as I dog them, I'm curious to see how Spacek, Masters and Healey develop.

Minnesota literally has what? Yurov as right wing if they keep him there.



Generally, if there is a strong interest in moving up it comes out. I remember Russo commenting on a few things in the past that were speculation. Or if they have a strong interest in a prospect or two.

You have no idea one way or the other if a team is or was trying to move up or not. And you also have no idea how often it happens but isn't reported on so you're arguing from bad logic.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I was listening to a Detroit Red Wings podcast the other day and one of the guys said that Helenius screams Minnesota; he’s not bad at anything, but he’s not elite at anything either.

I think that applies to a lot of non-top 3 draftees. I'm not bothered by it.

Almost no draftee is elite enough at anything out of the gate. Only matters how much better they get.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I think that applies to a lot of non-top 3 draftees. I'm not bothered by it.

Almost no draftee is elite enough at anything out of the gate. Only matters how much better they get.

I’m not sure I agree with that. A ton of players have distinguishing characteristics that project as elite. Like Eiserman and his shot. Yakemchuk with his shot and physicality. Silayev with his skating and size. Etc etc etc