2024 IIHF Division IB

[FourQuarters]

Feel happy for our players to stay in D1B!

 

[Albatros]

It's also not like China couldn't have shot significantly more, they were trying to generate grade A chances while keeping it a one-goal game and should probably have tested the goalie more.

 

[ozo]

It's also not like China couldn't have shot significantly more, they were trying to generate grade A chances while keeping it a one-goal game and should probably have tested the goalie more.

I don't have horse in this race, but this seems like complete nonsense. Hockey nowadays has evolved to a point that shots naturally come with a territory/possession of the puck and not some intricate passing in offensive zone. You have a puck? Shot follows. The romantic idea of Soviet hockey or whatever is long dead. Nobody thinks being outshot 1:3 is a strategy or a good game design.

 

[jonas2244]

That's a pretty one-way game so far.

 

[ozo]

That's a pretty one-way game so far.

I said it couple of days ago - Ukraine is simply too deep this year. I like Japan too, but Ukraine had to go up from 1B before them.

 

[SoundAndFury]

I guess how it seemed that way during the penalty parade but if anything, we are doing way better rhan I expected.

 

[GagneHanson12]

I said it couple of days ago - Ukraine is simply too deep this year. I like Japan too, but Ukraine had to go up from 1B before them.

Ukraine could have been promoted the past 2 years from memory, but in the final game against South Korea and Japan they had at least 1 (of not 2) major penalties that completely buried them. Let's hope that doesn't repeat for a 3rd.

 

[Albatros]

I don't have horse in this race, but this seems like complete nonsense. Hockey nowadays has evolved to a point that shots naturally come with a territory/possession of the puck and not some intricate passing in offensive zone. You have a puck? Shot follows. The romantic idea of Soviet hockey or whatever is long dead. Nobody thinks being outshot 1:3 is a strategy or a good game design.

You can watch the game, they had as many shot attempts front of the net as Estonia (eight), but only three from the blueline and six from around the circles.

 

[ozo]

You can watch the game, they had as many shot attempts front of the net as Estonia (eight), but only three from the blueline and six from around the circles.

Again not my fight. That said I'm used to my NT defenseman being absolutely useless offensively, so to me not having a shot from the blue line is more of an indication of not possessing a cannon or a sneaky tippable wrister rather than saving some long term offensive upside by, lets say recycling the puck, along the boards one more time.

EDIT: my English is betraying me. Not having a shot from blue line - bad.

 

[GagneHanson12]

Lithuania is playing pretty well, pretty strong defensively, and trying to get under Ukraine's skin (which is a smart strategy tbh). Stupid penalty by Andreykiv as well.

 

[Albatros]

Never in doubt, this team should be comfortably good enough also at the next level.

 

[ozo]

Never in doubt, this team should be comfortably good enough also at the next level.

I agree, and in case their young talent pans out and reports regularly Ukraine is a 1A team as things stand.

 

[PanniniClaus]

Good to see Ukraine returning. It was sad but predictable seeing their decline as Khristich, Varlamov, Godynuk aged out. Pleased for them.

 

[Albatros]

Good to see Ukraine returning. It was sad but predictable seeing their decline as Khristich, Varlamov, Godynuk aged out. Pleased for them.

They were a pretty deep team though as long as it lasted, just didn't have anyone to replace the old guard in the 2000s and became more top-heavy at that point.

 

[GagneHanson12]

I agree, and in case their young talent pans out and reports regularly Ukraine is a 1A team as things stand.

And even with their youngsters on their way (were a stones throw from promotion to top stage U18s) their top players aren't even that old; Peresunko is 24, Merezhko is 26, Lialka is 27.

 

[Albatros]

Merežko doesn't look a day over 40 with his beard and hairline combo.

 

[SoundAndFury]

You can watch the game, they had as many shot attempts front of the net as Estonia (eight), but only three from the blueline and six from around the circles.

Can you actually show where you are taking this from? Because I did watch the game and almost its entirety, before Estonians (Slessarevski mostly, really) got a rush of shit to the brain and were forced to play almost 6 minutes of PK-only, felt like waiting for Estonian 2nd goal to happen. I can't even count how many goalmouth scrambles China managed to defend.

Bad teams find ways to lose games (or at least to compromise themselves like in this case) so that's why Slessarevski did what he did, China scored their goal despite generating literally no grade-A chances 5 on 5 the entire game and there was a glimmer of intrigue until the end. But to say China could have hoped for more than the results they got is just truly laughable.

Before the mentioned PK stint, China was at single digits in shots. Over the first 2 periods they had 6 shots, 1 coherent extended attack in the Estonian zone, so basically no zone time at all. It's frankly ridiculous how you are willing to die on this hill for them like that. I guess you do truly believe you've seen the unicorn and nothing can change it at this point.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Anyway, in 2017-18 China was a step behind an "extended elevator group" Netherlands, Spain, Serbia and Croatia and now they improved to be a member of that group. If next year they beat those teams again, I'll say they start moving to likes of Estonia, stable D1B teams.

A very underrated post that sums up everything nicely without all the drama.

Also, what is the Chinese goalie situation? Because obviously Chen is their best player already, someone who is bound to have a pro career and not at the lowest levels of hockey either. But what's behind, is this Matt Dalton sort of situation?

 

[Albatros]

Can you actually show where you are taking this from? Because I did watch the game and almost its entirety, before Estonians (Slessarevski mostly, really) got a rush of shit to the brain and were forced to play almost 6 minutes of PK-only, felt like waiting for Estonian 2nd goal to happen. I can't even count how many goalmouth scrambles China managed to defend.

Bad teams find ways to lose games (or at least to compromise themselves like in this case) so that's why Slessarevski did what he did, China scored their goal despite generating literally no grade-A chances 5 on 5 the entire game and there was a glimmer of intrigue until the end. But to say China could have hoped for more than the results they got is just truly laughable.

Before the mentioned PK stint, China was at single digits in shots. Over the first 2 periods they had 6 shots, 1 coherent extended attack in the Estonian zone, so basically no zone time at all. It's frankly ridiculous how you are willing to die on this hill for them like that. I guess you do truly believe you've seen the unicorn and nothing can change it at this point.

https://www.iihf.com/pdf/703/ihm703914_77a_3_0

I don't know what the percentages are in this competition, but in the NHL most goals are scored front of the net. Therefore it does make sense to try and get pucks there as much as possible even at the expense of shot volume from less dangerous locations. From the blueline we're talking well less than ten percent of goals scored anyway. The problem with what China was doing was therefore not the number of shots per se, but an endlessly repetitive pattern that was too easy to figure out. By shooting more from other areas they would have forced the opposition to adapt accordingly at least to some extent, now they too often had the lanes shut down tight and ended up in corners only to lose the puck there time and time again. They do need to improve their transition game overall, but this is an adjustment they could have made right here.

 

[SoundAndFury]

https://www.iihf.com/pdf/703/ihm703914_77a_3_0

Makes sense, my impression was mostly correct, China had 8 shot attempts in the first 2 periods and those shot maps just look sad. In the third, sure, what happened happened as mentioned many times before. If you only count attempts from below the faceoff dots it's still 10-3 Estonia after 2 periods, China was very lucky to only be down by 1.

Overall, I think it's fair to say China's game plan was fairly simple - turtle into a very compact defense and wait for your chance. From a Lithuanian and Estonian perspective, it was really frustrating to break down those layers of defense but ultimately we managed. Team with the skill level of Ukraine just laughed at it (considering they won 9-0 twice I will say that's no coincidence). While the Dutch and Spain couldn't break it down, they allowed dangerous chances the other way too, and ultimately completely unraveled in Spain's case.

A viable strategy it is, ozo mentioned Latvian defensemen in the previous page and indeed, one might remember Dinamo Riga throwing SKA St. Petersburgh out of the KHL playoffs deploying something very similar to this but at the same time, someone choosing this tactic clearly understands they are basically letting the opposition do what they want and just hope it doesn't manage to take advantage of it.