Putt Pirate
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- Dec 15, 2015
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+- is a dumb stat. The goals against he had nothing to do with last night. Just on the ice why the forwards were brain dead. But yeah, he is soooooooterrible. FFS
2024 2nd Overall Artyom Levshunov
- Thread starter No Fun Shogun
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OldScool
Registered User
- Nov 27, 2007
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So using it as a main stat point to asses Seth Jones was acceptable but it's not an acceptable stat now. Got it.
BHawk21
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Putt Pirate
Registered User
- Dec 15, 2015
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Who used it for that?! Mot me. It is easy to see he is middling at best and didn't care. AND was toxic in the locker room. If you want to hang your hat on that stat for every player knock yourself out. It is dumb as f***.
Hawkaholic
Registered User
I can't think of anyone that used it against Jones. We didn't need to.
clydesdale line
Connor BeJesus
- Jan 10, 2012
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Dead Meat
Registered User
- Apr 27, 2004
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Chris Pronger's first three seasons:
-3
-12
-18
....now why don't you make like a tree and get the hell outta here.
ChiHawks10
Registered User
You're bad at math. If he is on the ice for 41 points, depending how many of them are at even strength, he'd be moving back towards the positive. So even if your ridiculous assessment of him by extrapolating out a dogshit stat that really says nothing about a player was anything less than stupid, your math isn't even accurate.
Your "pro scout" buddy looks to be unemployed because he was a dogshit pro scout. May want to use more intelligent people as a source of your information in the future.
Crow
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OldScool
Registered User
- Nov 27, 2007
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Donkeyballs, he is a -7 right now with 2 points. +/- factors that in genius.
You're bad at math. If he is on the ice for 41 points, depending how many of them are at even strength, he'd be moving back towards the positive. So even if your ridiculous assessment of him by extrapolating out a dogshit stat that really says nothing about a player was anything less than stupid, your math isn't even accurate.
Your "pro scout" buddy looks to be unemployed because he was a dogshit pro scout. May want to use more intelligent people as a source of your information in the future.
OldScool
Registered User
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Retired pro scout....and he looks correct with his assessment so far doesn't he. Spot on like it or not. He got paid to watch hockey games. You pay to watch hockey games.
You're bad at math. If he is on the ice for 41 points, depending how many of them are at even strength, he'd be moving back towards the positive. So even if your ridiculous assessment of him by extrapolating out a dogshit stat that really says nothing about a player was anything less than stupid, your math isn't even accurate.
Your "pro scout" buddy looks to be unemployed because he was a dogshit pro scout. May want to use more intelligent people as a source of your information in the future.
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Crow
Registered User
- May 19, 2014
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No, your friend looks incompetent, and you look like a joke for appealing to his authority, in all honesty.
OldScool
Registered User
- Nov 27, 2007
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I debate players with him all the time. Its fun. Once again - he got paid for his hockey opinion.. you don't.
"No, he is your own teams goalie nightmare...turns pucks over...not physical...out of position...no clue what he is doing out there...massive defensive liability....not close to being ready for NHL."
crazyhawk
Registered User
All I can say is opinions are like arseholes .... everybody has one.
Time for old school to dig himself out of the hole he's fashioned and spend time on more beneficial activities.
At any point if intelligence comes into play with this it would be apparent that quibbling over opinions on a prospect in his D+1 season is just pissing into the wind .. though relieving it's just kind of messy.
Time for old school to dig himself out of the hole he's fashioned and spend time on more beneficial activities.
At any point if intelligence comes into play with this it would be apparent that quibbling over opinions on a prospect in his D+1 season is just pissing into the wind .. though relieving it's just kind of messy.
CallMeShaft
Cringe Worthy
- Apr 14, 2014
- 15,735
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Donkeyballs? Really?!?
He has 2 points. One of those was on the powerplay, which does NOT factor into plus/minus. Also, plus/minus is a hugely flawed stat. I remember the 14-15 season when David Rundblad had a better plus/minus than Duncan f***ing Keith.
And to your point from earlier, no, we didn't hate Seth Jones because of his plus/minus. Honestly couldn't even tell you how bad it was, relative to the rest of the team, this season (prior to his trade). I disliked him because of his pace of play and effort level. I hated him because of his contract and him trying to force his way out while only willing to waive for two teams, one of which didn't even want him.
And, this has been mentioned to you numerous times but somehow needs to be said again, Lev is 19. He's in his D+1 season. Even if he were awful in these games, it'd mean jack shit for his future. Your "friend" is a joke.
OldScool
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My friend has given an accurate assessment of his current play. He is a defenseman. If you want to keep saying a -7 and 2 points is great for defenseman for 3 games then go for it. Low bar huh. At his current stage of development he needs massive help in the defensive areas. Deal with it. Lev should be in Rockford developing those elements.
TLEH
Pronounced T-Lay
I think his play has been pretty solid so far. The Hawks in general have just played very poorly. The tools are still the same tools that got him drafted where he was. You can see real improvement from NCAA to now. He's looked really comfortable on the PP as well.
OldScool
Registered User
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ChiHawks10
Registered User
It doesn't in a PREDICTION by extrapolating data over a season, GENIUS. Because you can't predict how many points are powerplay points, ES points, and PK points when you extrapolate the points across a season of games...
The fact that you don't understand that, coupled with the amount of weight you're putting into +/- as a telling stat of his defensive ability, tells me you should pick a different sport to watch.
CallMeShaft
Cringe Worthy
- Apr 14, 2014
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He's 19. That's a young age for a forward to enter the league, let alone a defenseman.
Alex Vlasic is our best defenseman and he's a -4 over the last 4 games (Lev's been in the last FOUR games, not three). EDM is a -4 in his last three, he was a healthy scratch against Vancouver. Martinez a -5 during Lev's time here, while missing the majority of the game against Colorado due to injury. Plus/Minus is a flawed stat, my comment from earlier that you replied to literally says that. Do you think David Rundblad was a better player than Duncan Keith in that 14-15 season? Do you?
I don't know why you're critiquing his point totals. Half a point per game pace, albeit in an incredibly small sample size, is a very good start for a defenseman his age in the NHL. Quinn Hughes, in his D+1 season, had 3 points in his first 5 games. Playing on a much better roster than what Lev is on now. Cale Makar didn't get an NHL game until his D+2 season, albeit his first 10 games were playoff games. Owen Power only had 3 points in 8 games in his D+1 season. While Rasmus Dahlin had just over a half a point per game pace in his D+1 season (though he is the only one of these players to play their entire D+1 season in the NHL).
Your "friend" doesn't know what the f*** he's talking about. I certainly wouldn't trust an NHL scout who is calling the most recent 2nd overall pick a bottom pairing (or bottom 6).
There was/is a poster here on HF Hawks that kept saying that he was a big Twitch streamer with a big hockey following. That guy started shit constantly and when he'd get called out on it, he'd say he and his fans knew better than us. Many here called bullshit on him and asked him to reveal his account because nobody believed he had any sort of a following. He declined, blaming it on the moderating staff here on HF advising him not to, despite our own mod Disgruntled saying point blankly, for all to see, that this poster had permission to post it. But the guy never did. We even asked that he DM Disgruntled so at least DHF could verify the claim, but this poster again refused.
You remind me of that poster. You show no evidence that you have a friend who is/was an NHL scout. However you continually use that as a talking point to try to win arguments here. Why should we believe you? And if you are telling the truth about your friend, why should we believe him? Why should we believe either of you when you claim that Lev is a "bottom 6 player" when that term is almost exclusively meant for forwards? Why should we believe either of you when you claim a top pick in the most recent draft, a kid with no glaring weakness (has good size, skating, shot, is a righty, etc) can't even be good enough to become a middle pairing defender?
Edit: A few more player comparisons. Miro H had only 33pts in 82 games in his D+2 season, did not play any NHL games in his D+1 season. He was also a -14 on that team, a team good enough to make it to the second round of the playoffs that year. Moritz Seider did not play in the NHL until his D+3 season, but did play in the AHL in his D+1 year (like Lev). The point totals are almost the exact same between the two in that league in their D+1 seasons.
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TheDoorDoctor
Registered User
Youre a muppet and so is your friend
Crow
Registered User
- May 19, 2014
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All you are doing here is repeating your flawed fallacy bullshit. At this point, you and your pro scout friend are lost causes. It’s quite apparent you don’t even know what plus minus indicates. By equating his teams performance in goal differential during certain circumstances to him playing bad defense both in the past and going forward, you make yourself look like a boob.
OldScool
Registered User
- Nov 27, 2007
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Let's just say that my buddy knows a lot more than you will ever know and I respect his opinion more than I respect some keyboard jockey. He has decades of experience and made a living scouting and coaching - you don't. Does your opinion matter - sure - but I hold his assessment in higher standing than yours. Just because he was the #2 pick in 2017 and was out in the league in 3.5 seasons.
Crow
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Nolan Patrick had severe migraine disorder and it affected his development and ability to play greatly.
Please explain how he is relevant.
OldScool
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It was in response to: "Your "friend" doesn't know what the f*** he's talking about. I certainly wouldn't trust an NHL scout who is calling the most recent 2nd overall pick a bottom pairing (or bottom 6)."
Where a player picked doesn't matter. #1 picks flop. Just because he was selected #2 doesn't mean he will be a superstar. Wasn't Boqvist picked #8 and was put on waivers a few times. Juolevi was picked 5th overall and first dman picked in 2017 and played just a handful of NHL games. List is endless of high picks being a miss.
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