Speculation: 2024/25 Trade Rumours, Speculation etc Thread

[LowLefty]

If they don't communicate via the media, then what's the harm in telling the media that Stanley is playing because he's big?

Not sure I'm following that logic, no.

What you won't consider is that they might get more out of him with a call out asking him to improve rather than that he is big.
So, assuming is listening to the message coming out of a Arniel post game, what does he take away from hearing that he is in because he is big? Not much - just show up and be big I guess.

 

[Jet]

I believe the guru of advanced stats claimed hitting was useless as a stat. As often hits were a sign of not having possession.

Interestingly those stats show that Stanley has a better impact in possession with the puck, generating offense than Heinola does.

Stanley's first passes are quite often good. Less so under duress I would say.

Toughness isn't just hits. Sometimes it's mitts. I don't expect Heinola to take any fighting majors in his career. For his own sake.

Yeah i think that's a pretty underrated part of Stanley's play and I suspect why the coaching staff uses him. He's a pretty good passer and makes decent exit decisions.

 

[voyageur]

The big disconnect between the fans and the team is pretty simple. If the need for Stanley in the lineup is because he's big and adds toughness that Fleury/Heinola/whoever don't have, then they already had that in a proven NHLer that they let walk - Brendan Dillon.

Stanley is not a proven NHLer, despite the fact that we play him like one, and has not shown the ability to improve or become one after 7+ seasons.

It would be one thing if they said, we need a big body PK D man in the lineup at all times, and made an effort to keep Dillon or bring one in that can actually play consistently at an NHL level. Its quite another when they trot Stanley out over better players or players with more upside game after game and then tell fans that he's playing because he's improving.

No he isn't. He sucks, quit trying to pull the wool over our eyes and quit handicapping the team by playing him.

Made no sense going long term with Dillon when Samberg is about to cash in. Long term it would be a constraint. Short term wouldn't have been achievable, putting the Jets in a Cap constraint situation. And nobody knows if Dillon would have signed knowing he was going into a reduced role for the remainder of his career. Jets are playing 3 guys that have never proven themselves behind a defenseman who seems to be a top 4 lock with a bright future. 2 of the 3 of them are better skaters than Dillon.

There's a lot of teams than envy us having a 6, 7, 8 defense debate. Their problems loom much larger.

It's unreal how Stanley gets so much antipathy. I think it's a great role for him. The villain.

 

[Jet]

Oh, do you not watch the games? You just check box scores and analytics?

I'd say he's been looking more comfortable on his natural side. He's going to need some more reps.

A handful of games here and there, coming off an injury, mostly on his off side, and at the tail end of a long road trip isn't really going to give you an accurate picture.

But like I said, the Jets don't really have room for him. They've built the team a certain way and the lesson they learned from last year's playoffs is - apparently - we need more Stanley and less skill. Put him on waivers. Someone might pick him up and he can have a fair shake.

Aren't you the analytics hype man on this forum?

I'm in the middle on this. I have seen steady if not remarkable improvement in Villes game. I don't think he's done enough yet to shut the door on Stanley.

People here dislike Stan, not completely without reason. However, I think many loathe to give him any credit for the good stuff he does because they desperately want Heinola to play.

At the end of the day, it's up to Heinola to force his way into an everyday player spot, and he'll do that by playing to his strengths.

I also appreciate that is a tall order for him as playing his style exposes risk, and if he gets burned, he could sit.

I just feel like this might be the worst scenario for Heinola to be in. If he was on an up and coming team that would just play him everyday he might just fulfill his promise.

 

[Flair Hay]

Sure I get it but it the same comments on repeat, for the most part he is no worse or better than most teams 6 d man. Coaches like what he brings to the team even if most fans don't.

I guess the second part of your first sentence is what people don't agree with, and why it continues to get discussed

 

[scelaton]

......
A handful of games here and there, coming off an injury, mostly on his off side, and at the tail end of a long road trip isn't really going to give you an accurate picture.

But like I said, the Jets don't really have room for him. They've built the team a certain way and the lesson they learned from last year's playoffs is - apparently - we need more Stanley and less skill. Put him on waivers. Someone might pick him up and he can have a fair shake.

Agree. If I were Heinola's agent, I would be pushing for that, or (as part of) a trade to team that actually showed confidence in his potential by playing him consistently. Confidence by management begets confidence in players.

I the same thing about Ehlers last year and for the first time in his career he is getting close to the utilization he deserves. I'm sure quiet conversations were and are happening behind the scenes for both players.

It will be very interesting to revisit the Trouba trade in a year from now. If Heinola is gone and they do not resign UFA Pionk after this season, all the players will have disappeared to other teams.

 

[Bender Duster]

Stan had the same complaint - why do I have a defensive boat anchor playing on his weak side, as my d partner.

Yeah…poor guy has never had an opportunity to showcase his skills.

Maybe he’ll get a fair shot during his next contract with the club. /s

 

[JetsFan815]

0 pts, team worst defensively in his gp.

"starting to put it together"

Is Ville somehow making the Fluery/Pionk pairing play worse from the bench?

 

[Adam da bomb]

The big disconnect between the fans and the team is pretty simple. If the need for Stanley in the lineup is because he's big and adds toughness that Fleury/Heinola/whoever don't have, then they already had that in a proven NHLer that they let walk - Brendan Dillon.

Stanley is not a proven NHLer, despite the fact that we play him like one, and has not shown the ability to improve or become one after 7+ seasons.

It would be one thing if they said, we need a big body PK D man in the lineup at all times, and made an effort to keep Dillon or bring one in that can actually play consistently at an NHL level. Its quite another when they trot Stanley out over better players or players with more upside game after game and then tell fans that he's playing because he's improving.

No he isn't. He sucks, quit trying to pull the wool over our eyes and quit handicapping the team by playing him.

No one really has to pull the wool over your eyes, we can say he sucks till he is blue in the face either way he’s in the line up. They could even trade for a better D, but, just like taxes and death if Stan is here he’s playing.

Agree. If I were Heinola's agent, I would be pushing for that, or (as part of) a trade to team that actually showed confidence in his potential by playing him consistently. Confidence by management begets confidence in players.

I the same thing about Ehlers last year and for the first time in his career he is getting close to the utilization he deserves. I'm sure quiet conversations were and are happening behind the scenes for both players.

It will be very interesting to revisit the Trouba trade in a year from now. If Heinola is gone and they do not resign UFA Pionk after this season, all the players will have disappeared to other teams.

What is the utilization that Ehlers deserves?

 

[Jets]

No one really has to pull the wool over your eyes, we can say he sucks till he is blue in the face either way he’s in the line up. They could even trade for a better D, but, just like taxes and death if Stan is here he’s playing.

I just dislike the messaging. Its a similar vein to how TNSE took their fans for granted with the season tickets and the waiting list. They have some serious blind spots with their messaging sometimes. Don't need to piss on our heads and tell us its raining. This is a knowledgeable hockey market, with a fanatical fanbase. Fans don't appreciate being gaslit about buying tickets or marginal roster decisions in the media. Just be honest and appreciative of the fans, don't treat them like braindead shills that will just support the team no matter what effort the org puts in.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I just dislike the messaging. Its a similar vein to how TNSE took their fans for granted with the season tickets and the waiting list. They have some serious blind spots with their messaging sometimes. Don't need to piss on our heads and tell us its raining. This is a knowledgeable hockey market, with a fanatical fanbase. Fans don't appreciate being gaslit about buying tickets or marginal roster decisions in the media. Just be honest and appreciative of the fans, don't treat them like braindead shills that will just support the team no matter what effort the org puts in.

On the plus side, Stan or Heinola or player x the jets are still top of league and I will only get out my pitchfork if team is near bottom. I’m not saying I’m happy Stan is going in and would love to see more Heinola. I’m going to be complaining in a good hearted way that Stan is playing.

 

[LowLefty]

Yeah…poor guy has never had an opportunity to showcase his skills.

Maybe he’ll get a fair shot during his next contract with the club. /s

I'm happy right where he is -
You can continue to call him names if you'd like though

 

[Gil Fisher]

At the end of the day, I suspect that Heinola isn't going to be a mainstay. I had hopes for him, but I think injuries hurt him a lot.

I just don't have any real hopes for Fleury. Or Stanley.

Unfortunately, I'm also worried about DeMelo.

Demelo has been fine after a slow start.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Made no sense going long term with Dillon when Samberg is about to cash in. Long term it would be a constraint. Short term wouldn't have been achievable, putting the Jets in a Cap constraint situation. And nobody knows if Dillon would have signed knowing he was going into a reduced role for the remainder of his career. Jets are playing 3 guys that have never proven themselves behind a defenseman who seems to be a top 4 lock with a bright future. 2 of the 3 of them are better skaters than Dillon.

There's a lot of teams than envy us having a 6, 7, 8 defense debate. Their problems loom much larger.

It's unreal how Stanley gets so much antipathy. I think it's a great role for him. The villain.

We know that Dillon was annoyed at not having received an offer. We don't know what he might have accepted.

 

[roccerfeller]

I'll be fine with Stanley if he gets us the cup winning goal







would actually be quite poetic ...

 

[Jets 31]

They are repeated to the point that they are no longer comments - more like rants.
When it comes down to calling a player a pylon, boat anchor, etc, it's gone beyond "commenting"
Like it or not, he's a Jet and you'd think the hard core would at least support him once they've figured out that calling him names will not remove him from the lineup.

I would just like to say that i am one that barely ever rants about the Jets, actually don't think i do at all. I just don't think Stanley brings enough to the Jets to make the team better, that's just my opinion , i could be completely wrong and missing something but i just don't see it. And on that note i won't bring him up again unless he starts playing really well .

 

[WolfHouse]

I'll be fine with Stanley if he gets us the cup winning goal

Id cheer for him if he had a beard

 

[voyageur]

Agree. If I were Heinola's agent, I would be pushing for that, or (as part of) a trade to team that actually showed confidence in his potential by playing him consistently. Confidence by management begets confidence in players.

I the same thing about Ehlers last year and for the first time in his career he is getting close to the utilization he deserves. I'm sure quiet conversations were and are happening behind the scenes for both players.

It will be very interesting to revisit the Trouba trade in a year from now. If Heinola is gone and they do not resign UFA Pionk after this season, all the players will have disappeared to other teams.

Heinola's agent should STFU, he tried that shit a couple of years ago when Ville was in the minors. And Heinola was clearly not physically ready to play on a contending team in the NHL.

If he keeps learning maybe he and his buddy Lambert, who also has 0s on the board, can make strides together next year.

I mean if Ville was as good as everyone thinks he is he would go on to that top pairing and replace De Melo seamlessly. He'd play shutdown minutes no problem.

Maybe he's a late bloomer like Forsling, so you hold on to the guy. But the entitlement idea, after a handful of games of positive results, well that's just silly. If Ville is of that character, he'd be better off gone. I don't think he is though. Signed a deal with the same value as Fleury (league minimum) but for one more year. Think he's probably happy to be in the NHL. The Finnish defenseman drafted ahead of him didn't cut it, went home. The player drafted behind him didn't cut it, is in the minors. The Swedish defenseman drafted after him didn't cut it, is in the minors. The Swedish defenseman drafted at #11 went home.

The best picks on defense in that draft were #6 Seider, #4 Byram, #18 Harley, and #8 Broberg, who took until the playoffs to have an impact.

You could argue though that if the Jets had taken Mc Michael or Pinto, they'd still have Chisholm

 

[GJF]

I know, it's a discussion board and everything but I think one should just accept that they're going to keep rotating Stanley/Fleury/Miller/Heinola in and out until something affects that (injuries) or one of them starts to perform significantly better than the others (wins the roster spot) or worse (is waived).

I personally am very much fine with this approach. If Heinola really is the best one, he will assert himself and win the roster spot. Right now, he's better in some parts and worse in other parts directly compared to Stanley with (IMO) up-trending signs. Not more, not less.

Having said that, I do agree that we know what Stanley is and he won't be more than that: an okay third pairing defenseman that can give you a bit of nastiness. Heinola has the upside to become more than a third pairing defenseman and I personally still believe in this upside. However, as of now, he's not.

 

[KingBogo]

We know that Dillon was annoyed at not having received an offer. We don't know what he might have accepted.

What does it matter if Dillon was annoyed. He signed for 3 X $4 m. He was not going to take less to stay in Winnipeg and was more likely looking for even more term to stay. Samberg was ready to move up and next season will be starting his big contract that will likely be in the $5 - $6 M range. Dillon would have been great on a 1 year deal but then Heinola is likely moved going into the season.

 

[scelaton]

Heinola's agent should STFU, he tried that shit a couple of years ago when Ville was in the minors. And Heinola was clearly not physically ready to play on a contending team in the NHL.

If he keeps learning maybe he and his buddy Lambert, who also has 0s on the board, can make strides together next year.

I mean if Ville was as good as everyone thinks he is he would go on to that top pairing and replace De Melo seamlessly. He'd play shutdown minutes no problem.

Maybe he's a late bloomer like Forsling, so you hold on to the guy. But the entitlement idea, after a handful of games of positive results, well that's just silly. If Ville is of that character, he'd be better off gone. I don't think he is though. Signed a deal with the same value as Fleury (league minimum) but for one more year. Think he's probably happy to be in the NHL. The Finnish defenseman drafted ahead of him didn't cut it, went home. The player drafted behind him didn't cut it, is in the minors. The Swedish defenseman drafted after him didn't cut it, is in the minors. The Swedish defenseman drafted at #11 went home.

The best picks on defense in that draft were #6 Seider, #4 Byram, #18 Harley, and #8 Broberg, who took until the playoffs to have an impact.

You could argue though that if the Jets had taken Mc Michael or Pinto, they'd still have Chisholm

Why the angry response? Heinola's agent has said nothing publicly--it was I who said that I'd push for an opportunity elsewhere if I were his agent. And there is no question that that is the right thing for an agent to do, discretely and behind the scenes.

Re the second bolded, do you really believe that is what you are reading here? Because the actual debate is between those who are happy with the team's utilization of Ville and those who think he should get a run of 10-20 games to show whether he has the skills to be in the lineup as a bottom 4 D, regularly. If they don't offer him that, I hope he gets an opportunity elsewhere and, I am sure, so do Ville and his agent.