Speculation: 2024/25 Trade Rumours, Speculation etc Thread

[Jet]

So, in this cyclical argument that we've been having for what seems like forever, here are some undeniable facts:

Ehlers, despite all of his positive advanced stats still doesn't get the prime icetime and trust of THREE coaches now. His usage has remained static, although this year he's getting PP1 time (which I can see being clawed back if he continues to try and force passes for turnovers).

There are valid arguments on both sides. You can't really argue too much with the stats side, his numbers are far superior to pretty much any other Jets forward. The eye test peeps have a valid complaint about how Ehlers needs to make a better choice with the puck on his forays into the offensive zone.

Why do people think he continues to be utilized the way he does by so many coaches (keep in mind it's not just the 3 HC's it's all of the assistants who have a say, plus KC and MC who seem to have some input into this.

Surely they don't hate him? What is driving this?

I wonder if we as a group can climb off the hills we are standing on, avoid the strawmen, non sequitirs, and personal attacks and just try to think about the why from a logical perspective.

In my mind, here are a few reasonable, non conspiracy theory arguments:

• He just can't manage more than the minutes he's getting (this could be supported by how he gets off the ice first, and his health issues in his career)
• Many coaches so far do not want to accept the risk in his game (though he has great stats, situationally in isolation if you are up a goal, one of his high risk passes could end up in our net and potentially lead to a loss)
• The team has statistics that are either not being used by the fandom, or they put weight on other metrics more than what the stats guys do.
• BONUS REASON: They want all our players playing the same way, to form unity, reinforce the system, and ensure plug and play up and down the lines

Anyone want to take a shot at a honest, as unbiased as possible stab at the answer?

 

[WolfHouse]

I don't think that Ehlers is better than i think. I like him a lot. BUT I also see the things that may make him difficult or frustrating to play with - which is (in my opinion) why we see Schief and Connor glued together at the hip

Just saying to Schief "you should play with Ehlers because your advanced stats are better with him than without him" won't mean anything if playing with Ehlers frustrates him and makes him dislike coming to the rink. At the end of the day, these guys want to enjoy their work as much as they can - just like the rest of us

You can't boil a hockey game or season down to a bunch of numbers anymore than you can boil a symphony down to auditory frequencies, a work of art down to visual wavelengths or falling in love into phermonal chemical reactions. I mean you COULD, but you'd be missing out on the beauty of all of them

There's more to playing hockey than generating pretty heat graphs and nice spreadsheets. There is emotion, creativity, etc. Same can be said for the locker room experirience. I think sometimes statwatchers lose sight of that, or don't understand it because they've never experienced it

Honestly if im paying soneone 8+ mill a season they play with whoever and come to the rink happy

Thanks, bucko. I'll do that

Why you always scrappin?!!

So, in this cyclical argument that we've been having for what seems like forever, here are some undeniable facts:

Ehlers, despite all of his positive advanced stats still doesn't get the prime icetime and trust of THREE coaches now. His usage has remained static, although this year he's getting PP1 time (which I can see being clawed back if he continues to try and force passes for turnovers).

There are valid arguments on both sides. You can't really argue too much with the stats side, his numbers are far superior to pretty much any other Jets forward. The eye test peeps have a valid complaint about how Ehlers needs to make a better choice with the puck on his forays into the offensive zone.

Why do people think he continues to be utilized the way he does by so many coaches (keep in mind it's not just the 3 HC's it's all of the assistants who have a say, plus KC and MC who seem to have some input into this.

Surely they don't hate him? What is driving this?

I wonder if we as a group can climb off the hills we are standing on, avoid the strawmen, non sequitirs, and personal attacks and just try to think about the why from a logical perspective.

In my mind, here are a few reasonable, non conspiracy theory arguments:

• He just can't manage more than the minutes he's getting (this could be supported by how he gets off the ice first, and his health issues in his career)
• Many coaches so far do not want to accept the risk in his game (though he has great stats, situationally in isolation if you are up a goal, one of his high risk passes could end up in our net and potentially lead to a loss)
• The team has statistics that are either not being used by the fandom, or they put weight on other metrics more than what the stats guys do.
• BONUS REASON: They want all our players playing the same way, to form unity, reinforce the system, and ensure plug and play up and down the lines

Anyone want to take a shot at a honest, as unbiased as possible stab at the answer?

No clearly they hate him.

 

[Buffdog]

Honestly if im paying soneone 8+ mill a season they play with whoever and come to the rink happy


Why you always scrappin?!!


No clearly they hate him.

You wouldn't be paying schief anything to come to the rink because he likely doesn't extend without some reassurance that he gets input into who he plays with

And without schief, goodbye helle - and then connor

It's time for everyone to just accept that Connor and Schief are going to play together and end up on the short end of things at 5v5 more often than not while still ending up as a net positive when special teams are factored in

Add Helle to that and we still come out ahead vs the alternative

I'm always scrapping becaue some people just can't wrap their heads around this

 

[bumblebeeman]

So, in this cyclical argument that we've been having for what seems like forever, here are some undeniable facts:

Ehlers, despite all of his positive advanced stats still doesn't get the prime icetime and trust of THREE coaches now. His usage has remained static, although this year he's getting PP1 time (which I can see being clawed back if he continues to try and force passes for turnovers).

There are valid arguments on both sides. You can't really argue too much with the stats side, his numbers are far superior to pretty much any other Jets forward. The eye test peeps have a valid complaint about how Ehlers needs to make a better choice with the puck on his forays into the offensive zone.

Why do people think he continues to be utilized the way he does by so many coaches (keep in mind it's not just the 3 HC's it's all of the assistants who have a say, plus KC and MC who seem to have some input into this.

Surely they don't hate him? What is driving this?

I wonder if we as a group can climb off the hills we are standing on, avoid the strawmen, non sequitirs, and personal attacks and just try to think about the why from a logical perspective.

In my mind, here are a few reasonable, non conspiracy theory arguments:

• He just can't manage more than the minutes he's getting (this could be supported by how he gets off the ice first, and his health issues in his career)
• Many coaches so far do not want to accept the risk in his game (though he has great stats, situationally in isolation if you are up a goal, one of his high risk passes could end up in our net and potentially lead to a loss)
• The team has statistics that are either not being used by the fandom, or they put weight on other metrics more than what the stats guys do.
• BONUS REASON: They want all our players playing the same way, to form unity, reinforce the system, and ensure plug and play up and down the lines

Anyone want to take a shot at a honest, as unbiased as possible stab at the answer?

I don't think Ehlers gets less icetime because of him, but because he is on a weaker line. Why it's Vilardi and not him on the first line, who knows. Maybe it's Scheifele's preference, or maybe the coaches want Ehlers driving the 3rd line that they think needs his skill set more. But really the team as been very successful post Dubois trade with mostly this lineup, and that success is probably the biggest reason for sticking with how things are.