Very much the same going on with the Gulls in terms of very little offense occurring. Even if the guys currently on the Ducks figure it out (McT, Leo, Zegs), Sennecke is the only forward we have coming up with big scoring potential so we're gonna still need to acquire depth scoring somehow. Drafting/development of forwards has just been so disappointing.
2024-25 San Diego Gulls/Tulsa Oilers
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Hockey Duckie
Registered User
You are reiterating the point of me starting off with, "the roster is crap and an afterthought by GM Verbeek".
We don't possess enough NHL fringe players to keep some of our top prospects in the AHL such as Zell last year and Colangelo this year. OTOH, Helleson looking good at the NHL level, but meh in the AHL level shows concern about our AHL coaching and development.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
The problem is Gaucher doesn't show up on the scoresheet often unless it's Caulfield playing next to him. This has been going on for two seasons. Throw any scoring winger with Gaucher-Caulfield and points will appear. Last year, the wingers were Tracey and Pastujov. This year, it's Sidorov and possibly Myatovic. I think last night was Myatovic's first game with the duo?
Caulfield could be that glue gem in the making and find that niche in the bottom-6.
ZegrassyKnoll
Registered User
- Dec 2, 2016
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San Diego's goal scoring is middle of the pack, they're getting killed by goaltending - both goalies are sub .900.
You wrote: "The few vets we have had, they tend to produce well." In my mind veterans don't tend to produce well and that's the problem. And the roster is not crap, it's mostly okei and I like some kids quite a lot (Hinds, Sidorov, Myatovic. Luneau and Pastujov lately).
WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
Caulfield has size and grit, if he's making plays at the AHL level, maybe they should give him the chance to prove he's at least more deserving of a role than Johnston.
I mean of the young guys, Nobody is really popping to where you’re like wow this guy could become a legit contributor. Colangelo is the only one maybe and he’s with the team.
McDonald19
Registered User
Different role. Johnston is a healthy scratch heavy weight enforcer. How about Caulfield in Leason’s role?
mightyquack
eggplant and jade or bust
- Apr 28, 2010
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Gaucher is definitely the biggest impact on that line if you have been watching San Diego games this season. That's not to take anything away from Caufield, but Gaucher is the one that is first on the forecheck and is applying the pressure and pretty much setting the tone for the line, while Caufield is typically more around the front of the net.
I said near the start of the season I could see Caufield as a 4th line / 13th forward at the NHL level in the future (granted more likely to be an AHL lifer). His big problem is his puck skills are not great at the AHL level, let alone the NHL level. He needs to improve on that for me, maybe a small cup of coffee at the end of the season as a 4th line energy forward but there is no way he can replace a player like Leason at the NHL level right now, in terms of I don't see him capable of playing 13+ minutes a night effectively.
Myatovic has 5 points in 7 games since being put with Gaucher/Caufield. I have missed a couple of games (the Tuscon series) but he was with Gaucher/Caufield since the Barracuda game at the start of the year and I don't believe he's been moved off that line since from the games I've watched. It's good to see him producing, but maybe not a surprise as the third forward has produced very well on that line all season (Sidorov was the same).
Carpenter/Nesterenko/Regenda are the three biggest disappointments so far for me. Especially Carpenter who is one of the worst vet forwards the Gulls have had in the last few years.
Pasta himself has taken a big step forward (even if the production wasn't as high) in terms of his skating and ability to separate from defenders which is a huge sign as his hands aren't the issue.
I said near the start of the season I could see Caufield as a 4th line / 13th forward at the NHL level in the future (granted more likely to be an AHL lifer). His big problem is his puck skills are not great at the AHL level, let alone the NHL level. He needs to improve on that for me, maybe a small cup of coffee at the end of the season as a 4th line energy forward but there is no way he can replace a player like Leason at the NHL level right now, in terms of I don't see him capable of playing 13+ minutes a night effectively.
Myatovic has 5 points in 7 games since being put with Gaucher/Caufield. I have missed a couple of games (the Tuscon series) but he was with Gaucher/Caufield since the Barracuda game at the start of the year and I don't believe he's been moved off that line since from the games I've watched. It's good to see him producing, but maybe not a surprise as the third forward has produced very well on that line all season (Sidorov was the same).
Carpenter/Nesterenko/Regenda are the three biggest disappointments so far for me. Especially Carpenter who is one of the worst vet forwards the Gulls have had in the last few years.
Sidorov, Pasta, Colangelo all have potential to be middle six forwards at the NHL level. It's not quite as glum as the picture being painted IMO.
Pasta himself has taken a big step forward (even if the production wasn't as high) in terms of his skating and ability to separate from defenders which is a huge sign as his hands aren't the issue.
I mentioned Colangelo in a separate post and see him as a contributor (but not a big scorer). Sidorov is a maybe and Pasta is a long shot imo.
Also said big scoring potential and not middle 6.
mightyquack
eggplant and jade or bust
- Apr 28, 2010
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Carlsson, Zegras, McTavish, Gauthier plus Terry already in the NHL, throw in Sennecke......if we can't find enough big scorers out of that, this rebuild is cooked anyway no matter what happens. We have our big scoring potential forwards, we need them to figure it out. That's probably as many young forwards that are seen as potential big contributors as any team in the NHL, it's only strange that so many are already in the NHL.
You also said we need to get depth scoring from somewhere, hence highlighting the potential depth scoring we could have.
I guess I just see them as somewhatlongshots to be depth contributors even, maybe less so for Colangelo. They may have potential to be, sure, but it’s a long way off and for me at least their production hasn’t been terribly impressive. Pasta should be producing like he is given his age. Hopefully a late bloomer but I’m not holding my breath at all.
mightyquack
eggplant and jade or bust
- Apr 28, 2010
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Sidorov is 10th among U21 AHL forwards in points and 8th in goals in his debut AHL season, that's pretty impressive considering he's rubbing shoulders with several 1st/2nd round picks of a similar age group. He's also has looked very noticeable on the ice with his skills, not many cheap points accumulated. For a 20 year old in their first pro season that's pretty good.
Pasta has never had an issue with skill at the AHL level, it's just been skating (especially edge skating), that's taken a step forward this year when you watch Gulls games, so it's not a surprise his production has jumped (after a pretty solid rookie season). But we may just have different expectations, if the expectation for a 21 year old forward in their second AHL season is to be a point per game player, then that's pretty lofty expectations as there is not many young forwards in the AHL producing at that sort of clip.
If Pasta keeps up his current production, and Sidorov continues a good rookie season, I'm thinking Colangelo/Pasta/Sidorov are pretty interchangeable when it comes to NHL potential. All potential to be middle six forwards, all potential to end up AHL lifers.
Ducks DVM
sowcufucakky
Apparently Dionicio got ejected from the game tonight, and my brother (who’s there) says he potentially spit at a referee.
Really nice shot by Pasta for a PP goal - nice dish by Luneau on it too
TheGoodShepard1
Dongle Digits.
- Nov 26, 2017
- 10,976
- 16,236
I feel like if you claimed literally anyone off of waivers, it would be at least even money with Dansk. Dude is terrible.
Looks like Luneau has picked it up the last 10 or so games, has added a goal tonight. Does the eye test match the numbers?
Looks like Luneau has picked it up the last 10 or so games, has added a goal tonight. Does the eye test match the numbers?
mightyquack
eggplant and jade or bust
- Apr 28, 2010
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Gulls hit the post on the empty net, Calgary goes the other end and score.
More incredible defensive play by the Gulls to leave the front of the net unguarded in a 1 goal game in the final 20 seconds of the game.
More incredible defensive play by the Gulls to leave the front of the net unguarded in a 1 goal game in the final 20 seconds of the game.
mightyquack
eggplant and jade or bust
- Apr 28, 2010
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Offensively good, defensively....not so much. But then Helleson looked woeful in San Diego defensively and looks competent at the NHL level so who really knows.
mightyquack
eggplant and jade or bust
- Apr 28, 2010
- 26,917
- 6,410
All Mighty
Registered User
Gaucher had a pretty hilarious short handed goal late in the game. The takeaway was legitimately impressive, but everything after that was a complete accident.
TheDarkWingThatDucks
Registered User
- Oct 30, 2024
- 155
- 152
If Nathan can just reach his “safe” floor and anchor a PK1, be helpful on a shutdown line, be a net front presence on the power play it will do absolute wonders for this team.
Nathan Gaucher — 2022 NHL Draft Prospect Profile - The Hockey Writers NHL Entry Draft Latest News, Analysis & More
Nathan Gaucher is a draft eligible prospect expected to go somewhere in the 20-40 range in the draft. Here is his draft profile.
thehockeywriters.com
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Point Totals
Looking at the AHL Stats page, Pasta is screaming up the rankings and is tied for team lead with Colangelo. Quite a redemption arc for Pasta, who was sent down to the ECHL to start the season and only called up due to a few NHL call-ups, AHL injuries, and a need for more scoring on the AHL club.
Of the three RW's, Colangelo is the only one with a right shot.
Points per Game
Now, looking at the Pt/G (points per game), Meyer and Luneau have been rising along with Pasta.
With all this offensive talk, the down side is we have only two players with a plus rating in C Harkins (+2) and RW Colangelo (+2). We have 14 players with a -4 rating or worse, the highest being a -15 rating from C Carpenter.
GA and Goalies
The team is tied at 20th out of 32 AHL teams for GF with 105 goals for and 30th in GA with 136 goals allowed. A lot of those GA is a product of terrible netminding.
The team's best netminder is out for the season in Suchanek. Here are his numbers last year with the Gulls.
Suchanek
Looking at the AHL Stats page, Pasta is screaming up the rankings and is tied for team lead with Colangelo. Quite a redemption arc for Pasta, who was sent down to the ECHL to start the season and only called up due to a few NHL call-ups, AHL injuries, and a need for more scoring on the AHL club.
Of the three RW's, Colangelo is the only one with a right shot.
Points per Game
Now, looking at the Pt/G (points per game), Meyer and Luneau have been rising along with Pasta.
With all this offensive talk, the down side is we have only two players with a plus rating in C Harkins (+2) and RW Colangelo (+2). We have 14 players with a -4 rating or worse, the highest being a -15 rating from C Carpenter.
GA and Goalies
The team is tied at 20th out of 32 AHL teams for GF with 105 goals for and 30th in GA with 136 goals allowed. A lot of those GA is a product of terrible netminding.
The team's best netminder is out for the season in Suchanek. Here are his numbers last year with the Gulls.
Suchanek
TheDarkWingThatDucks
Registered User
- Oct 30, 2024
- 155
- 152
Thank you for doing these. And doesn’t this kinda prove the point Verbeek and co are doing a good job, also with the fact that most AHL call ups under McIlvane have been solid at best and not one has really looked completely unready for the moment. (Luneau never played AHL until after the start of the year, and the stats are matching with development hopefully.).
I think the key to a successful rebuild is creating a pipeline to the NHL squad. Get as many late 1st / 2nd / 3rd / 4th and 5th round picks who stylistically matches the DNA for what type of team you want to build and play style you want to incorporate.
Verbeek has said he wants a big, strong skating, competitive team that’s aggressive and hard to play against.
That sounds like a physical grind over 82 games. Isn’t the sheltering of young players key to their development too. Now the point can be made, and I’m making it….. that now is the time (or very soon, like the return of Zegras) to play in not players under 30 years old in the top 6 offensively.
Zegras / cutter / Mason / Leo .. some combination of two of these on a line with Terry, and two of these on a line with Colangelo.
McT - Leo - Terry
Cutter - Zegras - Colangelo
Cutter - Leo - Terry
McT - Zegras - Colangelo
Zegras - Leo - Terry
Cutter - McT - Colangelo
Assuming Leo is being given 1C responsibilities, these are some lines that seem possible.
With a vets third line and a 4th of
Nesty / Gaucher / Harkins. (Harkins a good pk face off guy to shelter Gaucher if need be)
Leason as your extra…. Mcginn if he is even available, can take the place of Nesty if he struggles. Or you call up Myatovic / Judd / Pasta / Sidorov all except I believe pasta have spent time with Gaucher.
Johnston is waived.
Defensively you either trade Dumo, or have a tough talk with your captain. You’re old, you played a physical brand of hockey for us last season and then played with Czech to a tournament win. Take 1-2 weeks off and rest the body. You’re statistically the worse defender on the ice. (This is true right, I think I’ve read it on here). Stop gap captain making stop gap captain sacrifices.
Go something like.
LaCombe - Trouba
Minty - Dumo
Zelly - Helleson
You can swap Zelly or helleson and Dumo if you want to really try 3 of our young 4 in the top 4.
Building up the pipeline is the first aspect, (you know coinciding with selling off tangible NHL players for assets the should match your timeline to being competitive playoff team.)
The second benchmark is when to take the training wheels off (obviously while working on a workout regime to add muscle and strength to core areas for hockey players.) and start analyzing who is going to be a part of the future of this team. If I was doing that as a GM and tried to tread water as long as I could with the veterans leading way to not over exert you’re young players who some are trying to playing 82 games for the first time in their career, then take the training wheels off with about 20-35 games left (depending on the analytics of young players and how hard we can push them without hurting them.). If somehow we let the kids play, and we look good and have underlining stats to back that up, then you still have time to add at the trade deadline and no longer only using your cupboard of draft picks as darts for the dart board, but acquiring NHL talent that fits your timeline and improve your team.
You know when people say they’ve invested in analytics, but our suck. Wouldn’t it make sense to slice out a piece of the pie from all that money on, the brute force players take on their bodies, how hard to push players to their limits without sacrificing wearing them down, and things of this nature. Basically a handbook for how not to overexert your young players and risking long term health issues. Also what injuries can be played through without longterm repercussions and learn how to pay through pain, not injuries that can get worse.
This MGMT team has been pretty damn transparent all things considered.
Hockey duckie you just posted stats that paint a picture of individual development at the AHL level (and stats don’t tell the whole story), coupled with the fact that most if not all the AHL talent is coming up and looking good in the show. Yet the team is playing better, but still losing. The stats have not yet matched wins.
Here at Matt McIlvane’s press conference he says almost verbatim….. “individual development while still building a family culture is the most important priority and with that the wins should follow.
Are there issues we can complain about ? Most definitely, but Verbeek has been an executive for 16 years in the NHL mostly as an Asst Gm to someone who helped build a multiple Stanley cut championship dynasty.
Can we screw this up? Of course, but they’ve stated they have a vision and a plan in place to change that. Why would Verbeek spell out his plans, his job is at stake, he doesn’t want to explain every little thing they do, maybe Utah isn’t doing these things with new owners (don’t know their GM or who is running hockey ops.). But Verbeek watched the building of a dynasty, not including any new things people have thought up to improve.
While using the NHL club as a developmental league, I gotta assume minutes restriction and not making adjustments to our awful offensive scheme, has something to do with physically sheltering the younger players from the true grind of a playoff team over the course of an 82 game season. Especially after a year of major injuries.
I just don’t see a competent GM overlooking these things. Verbeek did say he liked overcooking prospects, maybe sheltering them is a way to do that at the NHL level, while also getting much needed game reps at a young age.
robbieboy3686
Registered User
- Jan 17, 2016
- 3,959
- 2,706
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Verbeek has the tendency to be a hypocrite about his own words.
You cited Verbeek likes to overripen prospects, but then proceeds to rush C Carlsson (18 yrs old & AHL eligible), LD Minty (19 yrs old and AHL eligible), and RD Luneau (19 yrs old; not AHL eligible) to the NHL, including gifting Carlsson the 1C position as an 18 year old. The previous season, the org made Mac work up from 4C and 6 minutes to 1C.
As for McIlvane, I really can't say much about him. Last year, his team sucked despite having G Suchanek. The two season productions are similar, mediocre offense (GF) and an even worse defense (GA). Zellweger and Colangelo seems like A students in a bad classroom and with an average or below average teacher. Pasta was sent down to the ECHL and only dragged back up to the AHL b/c the Gulls needed bodies and scoring. Pasta tore up the ECHL and carrying that same pace at the AHL level. Those three players aren't developed by McIlvane. There are no others on the team putting up numbers like them either.
Players that can be said to improve under McIlvane are... Luneau and Hinds' offense. Every returnee seem to have taken steps backwards under McIlvane.
San Diego's roster given to McIlvane isn't great, though. Notice, we have only youths signed to NHL contracts. We don't have enough top-end AHL/fringe NHL players to shelter the youths. The one we have in Harkins is in the NHL.
The sad part is I was hyped about McIlvane when he was rumored to be wanted by Verbeek, a year before he was officially hired. McIlvane sounded like another Eakins type coach who found success in the Austrian top tier league ICE.
The only youth AHL talent that is standing out at the NHL level is Helleson. The NHL club is still trying to figure out Colangelo as they put him and Nesterenko on a rotation until players get healthy again.
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