JojoTheWhale
No.
- May 22, 2008
- 36,720
- 112,862
There weren't 18,000 people in the arena. That's the number of tickets distributed even though it's called "Attendance."
Almost no sporting events in the US release the turnstile numbers.
2024-25 Roster Thread #2: Midseasonnar
- Thread starter Beef Invictus
- Start date
There weren't 18,000 people in the arena. That's the number of tickets distributed even though it's called "Attendance."
Almost no sporting events in the US release the turnstile numbers.
Magua
Entirely Palatable Product
The attacks on Luchanko’s above average skating wound me personally.
Bastards
Your monkey’s paw wish is getting an objectively plus speedster…..who goes in straight lines and rarely skates with the puck because he has scissor hands.
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 51,748
- 22,540
Except they're also scoring at a high rate.
Since 11/25, 19g, since the Cates line was put together and lines and pairs stabilized:
2nd in xGF%, 4th in HDCF%
1st in GF/60, 2nd in xGF/60, so they're actually finishing at a slightly ABOVE average pace.
1st in xGA/60, 4th in HDCA, 25th in GA/60, goalies can't blame the defense for their failings.
They're playing at a SC contender level 5x5, but need to fix special teams and goalies before they can be competitive.
Now whether they can sustain this pace for the entire second half remains to be seen.
But it suggests their 18 man talent is much better than people here give them credit for.
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
The Flyers averaged over 17K a night in attendance during Fletcher’s last year here. They were probably lucky if they were approaching 10K in actual attendance on most nights.
They didn’t lose crazy money that season because most tickets are paid for advance. But the trends of what would happen in the offseason if changes weren’t made when ticket renewals came up are what ultimately what got him fired.
They didn’t lose crazy money that season because most tickets are paid for advance. But the trends of what would happen in the offseason if changes weren’t made when ticket renewals came up are what ultimately what got him fired.
CerpinTaxt
Registered User
I'd let a turd sandwich be the coach if it knew how to coach the modern game
Magua
Entirely Palatable Product
It’s good to focus on the really important stuff in a rebuild, like whether 26 year old Cates is a 20 point center or a 30 point center, so that Luchanko-Cates-Poehling can anchor the middle for years to come. I’m riveted.
Ah, they’re actually playing like a contender — there it is. This is what a contender looks like, people. That’s why we don’t need a real rebuild. Just slap a Bonk and Luchanko on this contender.
They did even better last year in many of those stats. No one believes this. They’re a defensively structured (partially score effects driven) bubble team with a black hole PP and not enough scoring talent to weather storms. They could easily get worse from here, as they’re supposedly exiting a rebuild.
Ah, they’re actually playing like a contender — there it is. This is what a contender looks like, people. That’s why we don’t need a real rebuild. Just slap a Bonk and Luchanko on this contender.
They did even better last year in many of those stats. No one believes this. They’re a defensively structured (partially score effects driven) bubble team with a black hole PP and not enough scoring talent to weather storms. They could easily get worse from here, as they’re supposedly exiting a rebuild.
CerpinTaxt
Registered User
Just wait till 26/27 off-season. They might just right the ship then magically
Isn't $54 for an average ticket price very low? Maybe living in Toronto has skewed my perceptions on ticket prices but it feels really cheap.
Lord Defect
Secretary of Blowtorching
- Nov 13, 2013
- 19,195
- 35,359
Hollywood Cannon
I'm Away From My Desk
Here's the STH pricing:
They tier the games now so the best games are the red and the worst are the pink but the yellow is basically average.
They tier the games now so the best games are the red and the worst are the pink but the yellow is basically average.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
You know what I know isn't sustainable, and won't be sustained? Due to being built on unsustainable processes?
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
Woe to be the Cup Quality Team that struggles to ascend above 6th in the WC race. "Unlucky" I am sure.
JojoTheWhale
No.
- May 22, 2008
- 36,720
- 112,862
It’s assuredly not anywhere near as low as $54. As near as I can tell, the last time that would be an accurate number would be 2006-07.
This is one of those malleable numbers like viewership stats. How many were sold in the cut rate 2 packs at Costco? How many games did we allow those to attend? Do we count comps? How many promotions did we have to run? So it might be less than even adding up the STH pricing. I know some people don’t want to hear this, but their former marketing arm got tickets sold despite having to navigate COVID and *hockey stuff*.
Tripod
I hate this team
Good news is, 5vs5 is all that matters. We are a SC CONTENDER!!
Glad it was pointed out because I don't think anyone feels that way.
Side note, are SC Contenders usually at the bottom of the league in regulation wins?
Glad it was pointed out because I don't think anyone feels that way.
Side note, are SC Contenders usually at the bottom of the league in regulation wins?
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
They're certainly usually not 6th for the WC halfway through the year
DancingPanther
Foundational Titan
- Jun 19, 2018
- 34,583
- 72,910
PLAYING LIKE A CONTENDER??!!
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
I think he missed a syllable.
He meant to say "playing like a CHICK-con tender"
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 51,748
- 22,540
Got to walk before you can run.
Control possession, then learn how to use that control to score.
Then improve STs.
Finally, develop/trade for a true starting goalie.
When they drafted Michkov, they didn't expect him to come over until 2026-27, and then you have to give him a season to adjust to NA hockey. So I think 2027-28 has been the target all along. At that point the 2025 draft will be in their D+3 seasons, and players like Andrae, Bonk, Jett should be starters, and some others like Barkey may be.
Which is why I expect Laughton and Risto to be traded before the draft, maybe Poehling.
Seeler and Hathaway the following year once replacements are in place and Drysdale no longer needs a caddy.
They'll all be 33 or older (except Poehling) come 2027-28, so they're not in the "plan."
Control possession, then learn how to use that control to score.
Then improve STs.
Finally, develop/trade for a true starting goalie.
When they drafted Michkov, they didn't expect him to come over until 2026-27, and then you have to give him a season to adjust to NA hockey. So I think 2027-28 has been the target all along. At that point the 2025 draft will be in their D+3 seasons, and players like Andrae, Bonk, Jett should be starters, and some others like Barkey may be.
Which is why I expect Laughton and Risto to be traded before the draft, maybe Poehling.
Seeler and Hathaway the following year once replacements are in place and Drysdale no longer needs a caddy.
They'll all be 33 or older (except Poehling) come 2027-28, so they're not in the "plan."
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
They're regressing on offense. They're going from walking to crawling. Watch how they "cycle." The moment opposing D is in place they have no plan to make openings, isolate defenders, create chances. The play is dead. The puck carrier orbits until they pass to the Blueline or fling a perimeter shot.
This regression has happened every year under Tortorella so far. Two years he said something about having to tighten things up, and immediately offense vanished. The most creative burst they had under him was in December of his first year and he, out of nowhere, announced at a PC that he would put a stop to it. And did. And the team sucked to finish the year.
I cannot remember the last time the team met a single one of your grandiose expectations and you have never once held them accountable for it. Instead, you defend their inability to do what you expect.
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 51,748
- 22,540
:mod edit:
The problem on the cycle is the lack of playmaking ability, they're going to the net more, they're passing more, but even Michkov struggles to thread the needle and hit someone on their stick in front of the net. Some of that is talent, some of that is lack of experience - the toughest transition in the NHL isn't making plays in open ice, anyone with a modicum of skill can do that - but making plays in the dirty areas, whether an accurate pass that isn't telegraphed or being able to maneuver in a crowd and get a shot off. Flyers right now are in the "almost" phase that plagues young teams, either their timing is off, or they hesitate and the window closes, or they try to make a pass where they should just shoot and hope for a rebound.
I'm skeptical of "scheming" offense, it seems to work better when you have a lot of talented veterans for some reason. Hakstol certainly wasn't an offensive genius, but somehow G - Cout - Voracek scored at an elite level for a couple seasons.
The problem on the cycle is the lack of playmaking ability, they're going to the net more, they're passing more, but even Michkov struggles to thread the needle and hit someone on their stick in front of the net. Some of that is talent, some of that is lack of experience - the toughest transition in the NHL isn't making plays in open ice, anyone with a modicum of skill can do that - but making plays in the dirty areas, whether an accurate pass that isn't telegraphed or being able to maneuver in a crowd and get a shot off. Flyers right now are in the "almost" phase that plagues young teams, either their timing is off, or they hesitate and the window closes, or they try to make a pass where they should just shoot and hope for a rebound.
I'm skeptical of "scheming" offense, it seems to work better when you have a lot of talented veterans for some reason. Hakstol certainly wasn't an offensive genius, but somehow G - Cout - Voracek scored at an elite level for a couple seasons.
Last edited by a moderator:
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
I don't hate the team. I love the team. I don't like that the team is run by incompetent failures with failed visions of how hockey is.
The lack of cycle isn't lack of playmaking ability. Teams with similar or even less talent have better conceived cycles. ANAHEIM has a better cycle from a conceptual level, that they ran with all their lines. The problem with the cycle is complete lack of attention or planning. They have no scheme. None. The players are not collectively working towards any mutually understood purpose or plan as a unit. The most complex thing they do is dump or carry the puck deep and then pass it to a guy at the circle or slot, or pass to the boards so they can make another short pass to finish that series of events. The entire time the goalie is not challenged, the puck stays in the same half of the ice, and the goalie has no trouble holding angles.
No opening D coverage to hit the cross ice seam a la Sullivan's cup of tea. None of the cycling back and regrouping for an organized 2-3 man in-zone mini-rush, like a whole load of teams run now and even a living fossil like Sutter recognized he needed to figure out and teach. No situational or set plays like Carolina runs.
Just standing there, in your spot, remaining covered (Probably because even on offense you're supposed to be covering your man, knowing Tortorella, and if they cover you then you cover them) while one dude roams with nothing to do. Everyone is so completely lacking in effort to get open that it's hard to think of any explanation except that they're engaging in D coverage in the offensive zone, just holding their man.
You used to absolutely crush Voracek for doing that kind of stroll with the puck. It is now the default Flyers "cycle" and you support it. Fascinating.
Don't be skeptical of it. All the good teams do it. It's a major reason why they're good.
Oh, Giroux, Couturier, and Voracek are elite now? Hmm. Fascinating as well how they suddenly get this title you've always denied them when you think it works to defend the complete lack of offensive coaching this team gets.
It isn't the 80s anymore. Just going out there with a loose formation and running basic 1-2-2 or 2-1-2 concepts doesn't cut it. That's basically pond hockey now. The sport has grown more complex in the last decade. There is no "one neat trick" like running stretch hockey fresh out of the Lockout that baffled teams unused to defending it. There are many ways to attack. The teams with good coaches who do actual work in line with the modern game all have their own little intricacies that are noticeable when you watch them enough. The Flyers have none of that. Hakstol at least had a plan, broken and stupid as it was. AV's was outdated as hell and woefully simple. Tortorella has never even pretended to have one for offense, except for limiting what they can do; good coaches seek to maximize what their talent can do and the Flyers enthusiastically limit instead. He told us the summer he was hired that he didn't have an offensive plan, and wouldn't bother having one. That's becoming more and more confirmed that he was being truthful.
This is dreadful for player development.
Last edited:
