2024-25 Roster Thread #2: Midseasonnar

[Ghosts Beer]

You're pretty stubborn. Again, Patrick did not begin experiencing migraine issues until after the draft. The only other time was when he was a child. He did not have a migraine issues as a teenager or all through his junior career. It did not exist. Unless you think a player having the measles as a kid can effect his draft status. There was

You claim that Patrick did not begin experiencing migraine issues until after the draft.

I posted a link reporting that Patrick has suffered from migraine issues since his youth.

You double down that he did not begin experiencing migraine issues until after the draft.

Then contradict yourself by saying "the only other time was when he was a child" but claim he did not have migraine issues as a teenager.

How do you have access to the timeline of his migraine issues? How do you know they suddenly stopped when he was a kid? He reported each migraine directly to you? You have access to his medical records?

When I read that he's had migraine issues "since his youth" that indicates to me it's been an ongoing problem. It doesn't say he had them in his youth, and they've returned. It says "since."

And I'm the stubborn one? Maybe, but you don't give yourself enough credit in that regard.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

You're pretty stubborn. Again, Patrick did not begin experiencing migraine issues until after the draft. The only other time was when he was a child. He did not have a migraine issues as a teenager or all through his junior career. It did not exist. Unless you think a player having the measles as a kid can effect his draft status. There was no reports. End of story.

Here ya go, Mr. Expert on Nolan Patrick's migraine history:

Nolan does have a history of migraines, going back to when he was younger - he had some in minor hockey, in junior hockey. There's a family history, as well. I think at this point, he feels relieved to know what it is. It's been periodic migraines and cluster headaches throughout the summer and I think he was concerned and we were concerned. The doctor feels that there's a regimen you can put him on and with medication, we can control the situation and we're hopeful.

- Fletcher
Source: Nolan Patrick Will Miss Season Opener After Being Diagnosed With Migraine Disorder

 

[MJL66]

You claim that Patrick did not begin experiencing migraine issues until after the draft.

I posted a link reporting that Patrick has suffered from migraine issues since his youth.

You double down that he did not begin experiencing migraine issues until after the draft.

Then contradict yourself by saying "the only other time was when he was a child" but claim he did not have migraine issues as a teenager.

How do you have access to the timeline of his migraine issues? How do you know they suddenly stopped when he was a kid? He reported each migraine directly to you? You have access to his medical records?

When I read that he's had migraine issues "since his youth" that indicates to me it's been an ongoing problem. It doesn't say he had them in his youth, and they've returned. It says "since."

And I'm the stubborn one? Maybe, but you don't give yourself enough credit in that regard.

No, the link did not state that he has suffered from migraine issues since his youth. You're making yourself look very foolish and incredibly uninformed on multiple fronts. There was no reports or any medical history that said that Patrick had a migraine issues pre draft. NHL teams don't get nor do they look at a player history all the way back to his childhood. Patrick had a groin issue or something similar pre draft but he was declared completely healthy leading into the draft. These are the facts. Full stop. End of story

 

[CerpinTaxt]

i wonder if trading down from 2 was ever a discussion

Probably not cause Jett Luchanko wasn't in that draft

 

[Ghosts Beer]

No, the link did not state that he has suffered from migraine issues since his youth. You're making yourself look very foolish and incredibly uninformed on multiple fronts. There was no reports or any medical history that said that Patrick had a migraine issues pre draft. NHL teams don't get nor do they look at a player history all the way back to his childhood. Patrick had a groin issue or something similar pre draft but he was declared completely healthy leading into the draft. These are the facts. Full stop. End of story

Please see my post directly above.

You claimed that Patrick did not have any migraines as teenager or in junior hockey. Well:

Nolan does have a history of migraines, going back to when he was younger - he had some in minor hockey, in junior hockey. There's a family history, as well. I think at this point, he feels relieved to know what it is. It's been periodic migraines and cluster headaches throughout the summer and I think he was concerned and we were concerned. The doctor feels that there's a regimen you can put him on and with medication, we can control the situation and we're hopeful.

- Fletcher
Source: Nolan Patrick Will Miss Season Opener After Being Diagnosed With Migraine Disorder

So who's foolish, again?

 

[Beef Invictus]

A couple migraines are super unlikely to be on a medical radar. It's not a noteworthy event.

Fletcher pointing it out after they became an issue in the NHL and Patrick probably told doctors he had some as a kid isn't this brand gotcha.


The lengths required to defend the Flyers and pretend everything is the fault of a negligent Hextall are absolutely silly. If the Flyers made any good moves since 2018 then Patrick doesn't matter at all.

 

[freakydallas13]

*I* can bend over backwards to move the goalpost? Buddy, you're entire argument has one person, quoting a scout (who isn't named) saying he wouldn't draft Patrick at 2nd but he's a no brainer at 4th, and your takeaway is "well this proves it wasn't a consensus"?

Bob Mackenzie, June 19, 2017: Patrick at 2

McKenzie's 2017 Draft Ranking: Top 93 and honourable mentions - TSN.ca

For the final edition, Bob McKenzie ranked the Top 93 players, covering what would be the first three rounds of the draft, as well as seven honourable mentions making it a Top 100.

www.tsn.ca

Jeff Marek May 23, 2017: Patrick at 1

Weiterleitungshinweis

Bonner prospects, June 07, 2017: Patrick at 1

Weiterleitungshinweis

The Hockey News, June 16 2017: Patrick at 1

https://thehockeynews.com/news/2017-nhl-draft-ranking-the-top-120-prospects

ESPN, June 21, 2017: Patrick at 2

Top 100 NHL draft prospects for 2017

Who are the top players available for the 2017 NHL draft on June 23-24 in Chicago? We rank them 1-100 here.

www.espn.com

McKeens, May 31, 2017: Patrick at 1

McKeen's 2017 NHL Draft Rankings - Top 31 - May 31st, 2017

McKeen's Hockey releases it's final ranking for the 2017 NHL Draft

www.mckeenshockey.com

The Hockey Writers, June 31, 2017: Patrick at 1

2017 NHL Draft Final Consensus Rankings - The Hockey Writers NHL Entry Draft Latest News, Analysis & More

The final edition of the 2017 NHL Draft Consensus Rankings, averaging out the rankings from seven major draft evaluators.

thehockeywriters.com

Sports Illustrated (lol), June 4, 2017: Patrick at either 1 or 2, and I can't see but the article says he and Hischer are at the top:

2017 NHL draft rankings: Nico Hischier, Nolan Patrick lead solid class

There may not be a generational player in the 2017 NHL draft, but that doesn’t mean the class is any less solid. Nico Hischier and Nolan Patrick lead a solid slew of players ready to hear their names called on June 23 in Chicago.

www.si.com

The Draft Analyst, June 11, 2017: Patrick at 1

2017 NHL Draft: Final Rankings – The Draft Analyst

www.thedraftanalyst.com

An aggregate of rankings by Maple Leafs Hotstove, June 22, 2017: Patrick at 2

2017 NHL Draft Rankings – Final List

With only one day left until the 2017 NHL Draft and all the final lists now released, it’s time for a look at the aggregate draft rankings. Outlets included in these rankings: HockeyProspect.com McKeen’s Hockey Bob McKenzie Corey Pronman (ESPN Insider) Jeff Marek (Sportsnet) Craig Button (TSN)...

mapleleafshotstove.com

Bleacher Report, June 20, 2017: Patrick at 1

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2715912-nhl-mock-draft-2017-projecting-every-1st-round-pick

Hockey Scouting, June 8, 2017: Patrick at 2

2017 NHL Draft Rankings - HockeyProspect.com

HockeyProspect.com produces NHL Draft Rankings for eligible draft prospects for the current seasons draft. Our NHL Draft Rankings are released monthly from

hockeyprospect.com

How many more before you can call something a consensus? These are just the results from the first page of a Google search, honestly I got bored and stopped here but could have kept going.

@Ghosts Beer you never got around to telling me how the dozen sources I posted affect your "it wasn't a consensus" notion, nor did you answer my question. How many sources do you need before it is considered a consensus?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Fun fact, by the time they're teens, something like a quarter of kids have had migraines.

It's seriously not a big deal or unusual

 

[MJL66]

Please see my post directly above.

You claimed that Patrick did not have any migraines as teenager or in junior hockey. Well:


- Fletcher
Source: Nolan Patrick Will Miss Season Opener After Being Diagnosed With Migraine Disorder

So who's foolish, again?

Right, there it is. Patrick will miss season opener after being diagnosed with a migraine disorder. That happened, as I said previously. After the draft, during his NHL career. He did not have a migraine disorder before the draft. He was healthy before the draft. Last post on this.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Right, there it is. Patrick will miss season opener after being diagnosed with a migraine disorder. That happened, as I said previously. After the draft, during his NHL career. He did not have a migraine disorder before the draft. He was healthy before the draft. Last post on this.

LOL. Don't try to weasel out of this. You like sitting on your high horse, so eat your crow.

I said Nolan Patrick's migraine issues were known before the draft.

Not by me, not by the public. But surely they were in his medical records that organizations review, especially for players they are considering drafting in first few picks of the 1st round.

Surely it came up in the extensive background investigations and research these teams perform, as his migraine issues dated back to before the draft.

You replied, "Patrick's migraine issues did not exist before the draft. They didn't start happening until after the draft in his NHL playing days."

I responded, citing a New York Times article, ""It’s not like this issue popped up out of nowhere, either, as Patrick has a history of migraines that dates back to his youth (and a family history as well)."

(True, I later mistakenly said the article used the word "since" instead of "dates back to," but it doesn't change my point.)

You then condescendingly lectured me, somewhat contradictorily stating: " Again, Patrick did not begin experiencing migraine issues until after the draft. The only other time was when he was a child. He did not have a migraine issues as a teenager or all through his junior career. It did not exist.

As if you somehow were privy to Patrick's personal migraine timeline.

You added, insultingly, that I was "making [myself] look very foolish and incredibly uninformed."

I then posted another article quoting Chuck Fletcher as saying, "Nolan does have a history of migraines, going back to when he was younger - he had some in minor hockey, in junior hockey.

Thereby proving you completely wrong.

Proving you had no idea what you were talking about and were just making crap up as you went along and treating it as fact.

And condescendingly lecturing me about it.

So again, who is the one who made himself "look very foolish and incredibly uninformed"?

You.

So no wonder you don't want to talk about it anymore.

 

[MJL66]

LOL. Don't try to weasel out of this. You like sitting on your high horse, so eat your crow.

I said Nolan Patrick's migraine issues were known before the draft.

Not by me, not by the public. But surely they were in his medical records that organizations review, especially for players they are considering drafting in first few picks of the 1st round.

Surely it came up in the extensive background investigations and research these teams perform, as his migraine issues dated back to before the draft.

You replied, "Patrick's migraine issues did not exist before the draft. They didn't start happening until after the draft in his NHL playing days."

I responded, citing a New York Times article, ""It’s not like this issue popped up out of nowhere, either, as Patrick has a history of migraines that dates back to his youth (and a family history as well)."

(True, I later mistakenly said the article used the word "since" instead of "dates back to," but it doesn't change my point.)

You then condescendingly lectured me, somewhat contradictorily stating: " Again, Patrick did not begin experiencing migraine issues until after the draft. The only other time was when he was a child. He did not have a migraine issues as a teenager or all through his junior career. It did not exist.

As if you somehow were privy to Patrick's personal migraine timeline.

You added, insultingly, that I was "making [myself] look very foolish and incredibly uninformed."

I then posted another article quoting Chuck Fletcher as saying, "Nolan does have a history of migraines, going back to when he was younger - he had some in minor hockey, in junior hockey.

Thereby proving you completely wrong.

Proving you had no idea what you were talking about and were just making crap up as you went along and treating it as fact.

And condescendingly lecturing me about it.

So again, who is the one who made himself "look very foolish and incredibly uninformed"?

You.

So no wonder you don't want to talk about it anymore.

Because you're wrong. That's why I don't want to talk about anymore and based on your other conversations. You refuse to follow facts. Patrick did not have a migraine issues in junior hockey. He was not diagnosed with a migraine issues until he was in the NHL.That's the fact. You don't understand the difference between having a few headaches versus a migraine issue that keeps him from playing. There were no reports of Patrick having a migraine disorder before the draft. Have a good night.

 

[deadhead]

The real red flag on Patrick was that he was physically mature for his peer group and thus had less upside.
6'2 200 with a September birthday.

I think without the concussions he might have ended up a solid 2C, but not as good as Suzuki, who went #13.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Over a quarter of kids have migraines.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Because you're wrong. That's why I don't want to talk about anymore and based on your other conversations. You refuse to follow facts. Patrick did not have a migraine issues in junior hockey. He was not diagnosed with a migraine issues until he was in the NHL.That's the fact. You don't understand the difference between having a few headaches versus a migraine issue that keeps him from playing. There were no reports of Patrick having a migraine disorder before the draft. Have a good night.

You adamantly and repeatedly lectured me that Patrick did not have migraine issues until he was in the NHL.

I cited two articles showing that his migraine issues dated back to his youth.

You stated as fact that Patrick did not have migraine issues as a teenager or in junior and called me foolish and uninformed.

One of my articles had a clear as day quote from Chuck Fletcher that Patrick had these issues in "minor and JUNIOR hockey."

So you. Were. Wrong.

You were wrong in repeatedly saying that Patrick's migraine issues "did not exist" until he was in the NHL.

And you were wrong in asserting as fact that these migraine issues somehow didn't exist when he was a teenager or in junior.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You adamantly and repeatedly lectured me that Patrick did not have migraine issues until he was in the NHL.

I cited two articles showing that his migraine issues dated back to his youth.

You stated as fact that Patrick did not have migraine issues as a teenager or in junior and called me foolish and uninformed.

One of my articles had a clear as day quote from Chuck Fletcher that Patrick had these issues in "minor and JUNIOR hockey."

So you. Were. Wrong.

You were wrong in repeatedly saying that Patrick's migraine issues "did not exist" until he was in the NHL.

And you were wrong in asserting as fact that these migraine issues somehow didn't exist when he was a teenager or in junior.

How many games did he miss as a kid due to migraines, which are common in kids? How many months, how many seasons, that would indicate an unusual issue?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

How many games did he miss as a kid due to migraines, which are common in kids? How many months, how many seasons, that would indicate an unusual issue?

What are you trying to suggest? That if a fan doesn't know the specific everyday details of a player's lifelong medical record and health issues, then they didn't really exist? Even when it's reported that they did?

 

[Nizzle]

Now i have a migraine

 

[Beef Invictus]

What are you trying to suggest? That if a fan doesn't know the specific everyday details of a player's lifelong medical record and health issues, then they didn't really exist? Even when it's reported that they did?

Not every issue is an issue. 25% of kids have migraines by the time they're teens. It's a common problem. Unless he was missing serious time or it presented as an unusual problem, then it doesn't matter.

Where is the evidence it was an uncommon problem?

 

[Lord Defect]

What’s this about Patrick having character issues?

 

[MJL66]

You adamantly and repeatedly lectured me that Patrick did not have migraine issues until he was in the NHL.

I cited two articles showing that his migraine issues dated back to his youth.

You stated as fact that Patrick did not have migraine issues as a teenager or in junior and called me foolish and uninformed.

One of my articles had a clear as day quote from Chuck Fletcher that Patrick had these issues in "minor and JUNIOR hockey."

So you. Were. Wrong.

You were wrong in repeatedly saying that Patrick's migraine issues "did not exist" until he was in the NHL.

And you were wrong in asserting as fact that these migraine issues somehow didn't exist when he was a teenager or in junior.

 

[MJL66]

You adamantly and repeatedly lectured me that Patrick did not have migraine issues until he was in the NHL.

I cited two articles showing that his migraine issues dated back to his youth.

You stated as fact that Patrick did not have migraine issues as a teenager or in junior and called me foolish and uninformed.

One of my articles had a clear as day quote from Chuck Fletcher that Patrick had these issues in "minor and JUNIOR hockey."

So you. Were. Wrong.

You were wrong in repeatedly saying that Patrick's migraine issues "did not exist" until he was in the NHL.

And you were wrong in asserting as fact that these migraine issues somehow didn't exist when he was a teenager or in junior.

His migraine issues did not exist until he was in the NHL. That is when he was diagnosed with a migraine disorder and when it affected his career. That's a fact. You post articles written after the draft to argue that there was information that he had a migraine issues pre draft. You are wrong

You can put this to rest very simply and if you can, I'll gladly admit that I was wrong. Link to one credible source, one article, tweet whatever that was posted or written prior to the draft occurring that Patrick had a migraine disorder. Just one is all I ask. If you can't, then you're wrong. Simple as that and we can then move on.

Not every issue is an issue. 25% of kids have migraines by the time they're teens. It's a common problem. Unless he was missing serious time or it presented as an unusual problem, then it doesn't matter.

Where is the evidence it was an uncommon problem?

There was no information pre draft that Patrick had a migraine issues.

 

[Lord Defect]

Sweet baby Jesus, do people write fan fiction of hockey players??

Removed how to find this after seeing certain tags listed.

 

[ybnvs]

Is it raining? Is it snowing?

 

[Lord Defect]

I did not see that tag about anything underaged. Now I’m definitely glad I didn’t click that, what the absolute f***????

 

[BiggE]

By all means, let’s keep discussing Nolan Patrick and the 2017 draft. It’s just too much fun.