2024-25 Roster Thread #2: Midseasonnar

[Sombastate]

If he's fantastic, how come in 23g he has 0-4 4 (ES)?
That's playing 13:06 at ES.
That was after putting up 71g 11-17 28 (ES) in the AHL last season.
Which is a decent D+2 season as a 19 year old, but nothing that would get people excited.

If he were a Flyer prospect, people here would be crapping all over them for taking him at #8.

Sure, good chance he develops into a much better player, but that holds true for a lot of players taken in the #11-25 range - reason players go in the top ten is they're generally deemed to be closer to NHL ready. Later in the 1st rd you tend to chose between high ceiling/high risk or high floor/lower ceiling.

So you haven't watched him. Gotcha.

So i do this thing where in order to have an opinion, I do a bit more than make up my mind and then find what supports my already concrete belief.

Dr Leonard Orr has this theory that the mind is made up of two parts, the thinker and the prover. The thinker can think of anything (Turtles all the way down, earth is Flat, Chuck Fletcher is good), and the prover will rearrange, add and omit whatever data is beneficial for the thinker's hypothesis.

In defense of Dr Leonard Orr, Exhibit A: Deadhead.

Turtles all the way down, my friends.

 

[deadhead]

So you haven't watched him. Gotcha.

So i do this thing where in order to have an opinion, I do a bit more than make up my mind and then find what supports my already concrete belief.

Dr Leonard Orr has this theory that the mind is made up of two parts, the thinker and the prover. The thinker can think of anything (Turtles all the way down, earth is Flat, Chuck Fletcher is good), and the prover will rearrange, add and omit whatever data is beneficial for the thinker's hypothesis.

In defense of Dr Leonard Orr, Exhibit A: Deadhead.

Turtles all the way down, my friends.

I watched the Detroit games. Did he play? B/c I sure didn't notice him.
Noticed Larkin however. Checks notes. Oh, #15 in his draft
Age 19: 80g 22-23 45 (40 ES) in the NHL, not the AHL.

 

[Tripod]

Why are you complaining? That means theirs more game time which means more time you get to enjoy watching them. You should be thanking them!

I don't watch.

Frees up plenty of time!

I watched the Detroit games. Did he play? B/c I sure didn't notice him.
Noticed Larkin however. Checks notes. Oh, #15 in his draft
Age 19: 80g 22-23 45 (40 ES) in the NHL, not the AHL.

You know just spewing random shit just proves his point more, right?

 

[trostol]

I like how only ES points count

 

[deadhead]

I don't watch.

Frees up plenty of time!


You know just spewing random shit just proves his point more, right?

No. He states a player was "fantastic."
Player hasn't done shit.
His credibility is far more questionable than mine.

If he said Kasper has flashed elite raw talent but is struggling to consistently apply it, he might be credible.

Fantastic players do fantastic things on a regular basis.
McDavid is a fantastic player. So is Makar.

 

[Beef Invictus]

A sample size of 2 games. Is this real

 

[Sombastate]

No. He states a player was "fantastic."
Player hasn't done shit.
His credibility is far more questionable than mine.

If he said Kasper has flashed elite raw talent but is struggling to consistently apply it, he might be credible.

Fantastic players do fantastic things on a regular basis.
McDavid is a fantastic player. So is Makar.

Ahh, so i have to speak in a world that doesn't include semantic satiation. Otherwise what I say is equal to sophistry and should be committed to the flames. At the same time you get to bounce around barely lucid ideas while appealing to authority with conjecture and refutations that cease to make sense the moment they escape the fantasy world that is your noggin. Got it.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Kasper had a team leading 64.18% xGF% last night, btw.

 

[kudymen]

A sample size of 2 games. Is this real

293 games, however...

 

[freakydallas13]

Player hasn't done shit.

Jamie Drysdale hasn't done shit either but you sing a different tune when someone says he sucks.

 

[deadhead]

Jamie Drysdale hasn't done shit either but you sing a different tune when someone says he sucks.

Have I called Drysdale a "fantastic player?"
All I've said he's played very well since he's returned, but wait a few months to see if it's sustainable.
That's not exactly an ironclad commitment.

 

[freakydallas13]

Have I called Drysdale a "fantastic player?"
All I've said he's played very well since he's returned, but wait a few months to see if it's sustainable.
That's not exactly an ironclad commitment.

No, you just apply your pro-flyers double standard selectively and act surprised when I call you out.

"Kasper? He hasn't done shit in 23 games. Drysdale we still need to wait and see though, he's only 2 years older and played 120 more NHL games than Kasper."

You hide your bias about as well as Torts does.

 

[deadhead]

No, you just apply your pro-flyers double standard selectively and act surprised when I call you out.

"Kasper? He hasn't done shit in 23 games. Drysdale we still need to wait and see though, he's only 2 years older and played 120 more NHL games than Kasper."

You hide your bias about as well as Torts does.

No. I've said Kasper may well develop into a good player the next couple years.
But "fantastic", I save that for a very small group of NHL players and definitely not unproven prospects.
I wouldn't call Bedard "fantastic." Or Hughes. Not at this time.

"Fantastic" applies to the handful of players who make you watch them even casually glancing at a game. Ordinary players can make "fantastic" plays, but fantastic players make them routine.
Same way "elite" by definition only applies to the top 2-3% of players (i.e. 8-12 forwards, 4-6 D-men, 1-2 goalies).

This applies to other words, "brilliant" is grossly overused, as is "genius."
In the real world you rarely meet brilliant people and there are few geniuses out there.

 

[Sombastate]

Except you knew i was referring to a select group of people. Kasper was fantastic in the group that you mentioned. You knew exactly what i was talking about. Its just easier to bend over backwards and scream into your own asshole if you neglect the context of the conversation

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Speaking of eye twitches...

 

[Fight4yourRight]

Speaking of eye twitches...



View attachment 948238View attachment 948239

“Try to get another Michkov.”

Ok, good luck with that.

 

[BigToe]

“Try to get another Michkov.”

Ok, good luck with that.

Sounds like Ryabkin music

 

[deadhead]

I like how only ES points count

ES points are more "stable."
At lower levels they're also better predictors b/c they reflect playing with smaller windows.
Top players get a lot of lower level PP points simply b/c they play on PP1.

Think about the Flyer PP, even a player as good as Michkov isn't going to pile up points the way he would on a top PP, conversely on a good PP, the 4th and 5th players on PP1 are going to get 20+ points just by "being there" (i.e. passing the puck around and picking up assists).

 

[Lord Defect]

ES points are more "stable."
At lower levels they're also better predictors b/c they reflect playing with smaller windows.
Top players get a lot of lower level PP points simply b/c they play on PP1.

Think about the Flyer PP, even a player as good as Michkov isn't going to pile up points the way he would on a top PP, conversely on a good PP, the 4th and 5th players on PP1 are going to get 20+ points just by "being there" (i.e. passing the puck around and picking up assists).

Now imagine if michkov got to play on a better team. He’d get more ES points than playing on a bad team.
Same thing. Doesn’t matter. A point is a point is a point.

 

[ponder719]

Speaking of eye twitches...



View attachment 948238View attachment 948239

BRB, changing my last name to Michkov and registering for the draft. If this guy's doing the evaluations, I'm getting a hell of a contract in a few months' time.

 

[freakydallas13]

Now imagine if michkov got to play on a better team. He’d get more ES points than playing on a bad team.
Same thing. Doesn’t matter. A point is a point is a point.

Pffft, shows how much you know. At the end of the regular season the NHL filters the "even strength goal" column in descending order and awards the Stanley Cup to the team at the top. Everybody knows that.

 

[deadhead]

Now imagine if michkov got to play on a better team. He’d get more ES points than playing on a bad team.
Same thing. Doesn’t matter. A point is a point is a point.

No because only a few players get to play on PP1.
So if you want to compare apples to apples, stick with ES points.
Still affected by teams, schemes, linemates, but more informative.

Bergeron is a good example, played on the PP early in his career, then taken off after a few years b/c he was too valuable in other roles. Still the same player even if his point totals were smaller.

Which doesn't mean PP points don't have value. But that's special teams play, just like the PK.
Why value PP points more than PK points avoided (harder to measure but mirror image)?

 

[Flyerfan4life]

“Try to get another Michkov.”

Ok, good luck with that.

these idiots cant even find another Ghost...

 

[deadhead]

Except you knew i was referring to a select group of people. Kasper was fantastic in the group that you mentioned. You knew exactly what i was talking about. Its just easier to bend over backwards and scream into your own asshole if you neglect the context of the conversation

Why was he fantastic? He didn't do any special pre-draft.
Yes, he held his own in the SHL at 17, which is impressive, but he wasn't a child prodigy.
Of course he looked good, he went #8 in the draft.

Most really good players make it to the NHL and are solid starters at 19-20
Kasper made it at 20 and is struggling, even more than Gauthier at 20.
Doesn't mean they won't be good players, and maybe Kasper will turn out better, but neither was a slam dunk.

There's only one player out of the 5-15 group that has stood out so far, and that's Mintyukov.
Even Nemec #2 and Wright #4 have yet to stand out.
Which doesn't mean they won't make it, but it shows that was not a draft full of sure things.