2024-25 Roster Thread #1: The Beginninging

VladDrag

Registered User
Feb 6, 2018
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I'd ask Jo Jo, I can't afford to sign up to the best sites (spend too much money on the NYT and the Economist on a fixed income).

Flyers are worse this year on advanced stats, but the goalies have been the biggest problem, similar to the last 20 games last year when Ersson wore down. Some of this may be the metrics don't capture how bad the scoring chances allowed have been, but mostly Ersson being meh and Fedotov being awful..

Last 20 last season v first 9 this season:
xGF 53.29%, HCDF 55.25%, (GA - xGA)/60 = 1.11
xGF 47.06%, HDCF 46.44%, (GA-xGA)/60 = 1.44

They're not playing as well and the goalies are even worse.
What the paywall sites are saying they haven't been a great offensive teams, but they've been decent defensively.

1730130019244.png



1730130004192.png


Last year they were one of the better teams with rush chances, but that was not from exiting their zone. It was from good defensive structure in the NZ breaking down other teams breakouts. That doesn't appear to be happening this year....The 24-25 tracking data hasn't quite been released yet, so we'll see what it looks like in that regard.

In terms of goaltending - they've been bad.... But last year, they were also awful by this same Site, so I don't think they were much better.

1730130430517.png


If you want to look specifically at players, see below. The team is putting up decent defensive metrics, but apart from TK, poor-to-average offensive metrics (Michkov included). I think there's a lot of things not going well, including both from players as well as from the coaching staff.

1730130535622.png


1730130570611.png
 

TB87

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
May 30, 2018
6,190
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Flyerfan4life

Registered User
Jun 9, 2010
35,436
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Flyers STILL don’t have a Russian interpreter on retainer. These guys have the common sense of a pet rock.
just fold the franchise... this Org. is just bad at even the most basic of basic things.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
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Meltzer from hockeybuzz:

"I was told by someone in hockey ops that Tortorella did not want "go too small on D" with three small/smallish D. York and Drysdale are in the lineup, so that squeezed out Andrae when he was called up. Right now with York out, though, there's an opportunity for Andrae. He was a bright spot last night."

Stupid as hell.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
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Flyers STILL don’t have a Russian interpreter on retainer. These guys have the common sense of a pet rock.

These guys have a vigorous abhorrence of anything that could be interpreted as "pandering" to players.
 
Feb 19, 2003
67,562
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Concord, New Hampshire
Sounds like a good reason why they didnt draft Buium, contrary to what some, alright, one, on here might say...
Yet if they had a bunch of big poor skating defenseman with zero offensive upside that would have not stopped them from drafting another one.
Can’t have too many smallish defenseman who can move the puck.
Flyers hockey
 
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freakydallas13

Registered User
Jan 30, 2007
7,414
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Victoria, BC
What the paywall sites are saying they haven't been a great offensive teams, but they've been decent defensively.

View attachment 922797


View attachment 922796

Last year they were one of the better teams with rush chances, but that was not from exiting their zone. It was from good defensive structure in the NZ breaking down other teams breakouts. That doesn't appear to be happening this year....The 24-25 tracking data hasn't quite been released yet, so we'll see what it looks like in that regard.

In terms of goaltending - they've been bad.... But last year, they were also awful by this same Site, so I don't think they were much better.

View attachment 922801

If you want to look specifically at players, see below. The team is putting up decent defensive metrics, but apart from TK, poor-to-average offensive metrics (Michkov included). I think there's a lot of things not going well, including both from players as well as from the coaching staff.

View attachment 922803

View attachment 922805
Big oof on Drysdale.
 

freakydallas13

Registered User
Jan 30, 2007
7,414
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Victoria, BC

Flyers STILL don’t have a Russian interpreter on retainer. These guys have the common sense of a pet rock.
Pathetic. Flyers have had interpreters for post game interviews before, why the hell did they stop now? Are they that hard up for cash?

He's never shown up well in these models.
Honest question, does he show up well on any models?
 

SolidSnakeUS

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Aug 13, 2009
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Flyers STILL don’t have a Russian interpreter on retainer. These guys have the common sense of a pet rock.

When incompetency turns into straight up uncaring and abusive. f*** this management.
 
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flyersnorth

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Oct 7, 2019
4,642
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Again I have to point out that no one cares this team is bad, and anyone (not you specifically) who complains and counters with "Well you wanted to tank, what did you expect?" Is arguing in bad faith.

What we care about is the fact that a "bad" team is holding onto Scotty "Franchise" Laughton instead of trading him for the first that was offered. We care that this team resigns ever player it can, players like Seeler and Hathaway instead of trading them for assets. We care that players that line up poorly with the rebuild timeline (4 more years according to some) are being reigned to max years like Konecny. We care that the cap is being wasted giving inconsistent middle six wingers like Tippet max term. We care that contracts like Fedotov's are being handed out based on nothing but vibes. We care that young players like Frost and Brink are being scratched for washed vets like Johnson or Deslauriers. We care that this organization bleeds huge amounts of value going for "fit" (Drysdale, drafting Luchanko). We hate that the GM shows zero patience at all (resigning Hathaway day 1, dumping Hayes immediately instead of waiting). We hate that young players who play here for any amount of time inevitably regress (look at Farabee or Foerster this season). We hate that we have a pathetically mean coach who is vindictive against certain players for no reason other than he doesn't like them. We hate that said coach has no clue how to coach a modern offence. We hate that the organizational power structure runs through this dinosaur coach, and that he was only hired because the ancient advisers who have a stranglehold on this team can't let go of their glory days from 50 years ago. We hate that incompetency in coaching (rocky and the PP, Lappy in general) is not only not punished, but seemingly rewarded. We hate that the GM thinks we already have enough elite talent on the roster to win a cup.

But most of all, we hate that this team is pegged to be nothing more than a first round playoff speed bump for actual contending teams for another decade, because we just finished watching exactly that for the previous decade and we've had enough.

I don't disagree with any of that, and I was just pointing out that they look bad because they are bad. I know, how very tautological.

I'm not an NHL team builder. I'm also only a Flyers fan, not a hockey fan (as in I don't really watch any other hockey, no time or desire) so my knowledge of other teams and players is almost 100% through reading about them here, seeing news about them, or watching them when they play the Flyers.

So with that caveat out of the way, I do feel that if they can be organically bad yet still have some talented veterans on the roster (TK, Coots, Sanheim) that is a better supporting development environment than one stripped to the studs and devoid of talented veteran leaders.

Still, I felt like trading TK would have been a smart move to capitalize on a high-value asset who would likely age of out of the competitive window. But they felt differently, so whatever, I will enjoy watching TK here instead of somewhere else. Same with Laughton. The time to trade him was just before they re-signed him. But they didn't.

Not a huge fan of the Tippett extension. I don't think he's a max term core player kind of guy.

I think Torts has some strong parts to his coaching style, and some downright petty elements too.

I felt like they should have taken Caufield instead of York and Brink. Buium instead of Luchanko. Those are the two biggest head scratchers.

So are all these "miscues" fatal? I have no idea.

I do know that a team that drafts #2, #5, #7, and #7 overall in a short span should have more to show for what we have now. The only one of those four players on the Flyers is Michkov. They blew their high picks, plain and simple. And by "blew" I mean they did not provide the Flyers with a high-talent core.

We had a franchise goaltender, and he turned out to be not who we thought he was.

They've been mired in mediocrity and bottom-third for over a decade now.

At the very least, they have Michkov. He is a legitimate elite talent you can build around. But they have so many organizational holes. If they can hit on a top 5 pick this year, maybe that starts to build momentum in the right direction.

Just my $0.02.
 
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deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
50,510
22,084
What the paywall sites are saying they haven't been a great offensive teams, but they've been decent defensively.

View attachment 922797


View attachment 922796

Last year they were one of the better teams with rush chances, but that was not from exiting their zone. It was from good defensive structure in the NZ breaking down other teams breakouts. That doesn't appear to be happening this year....The 24-25 tracking data hasn't quite been released yet, so we'll see what it looks like in that regard.

In terms of goaltending - they've been bad.... But last year, they were also awful by this same Site, so I don't think they were much better.

View attachment 922801

If you want to look specifically at players, see below. The team is putting up decent defensive metrics, but apart from TK, poor-to-average offensive metrics (Michkov included). I think there's a lot of things not going well, including both from players as well as from the coaching staff.

View attachment 922803

View attachment 922805
Interesting, now we know why Cates is back at center with Luchanko gone.
And why Brink got benched.

It doesn't surprise me that playing Michkov and Drysdale hurts the team overall, both are physically talented, but also very inexperienced. The difference is you can see the flashes in Michkov that will cause Torts to be patient, but I think Drysdale will have a much shorter leash.
 

VladDrag

Registered User
Feb 6, 2018
6,248
15,888
Interesting, now we know why Cates is back at center with Luchanko gone.
And why Brink got benched.

It doesn't surprise me that playing Michkov and Drysdale hurts the team overall, both are physically talented, but also very inexperienced. The difference is you can see the flashes in Michkov that will cause Torts to be patient, but I think Drysdale will have a much shorter leash.
Not surprised you didn't mention DeLo or Laughton at all.....

I also wanted to note that those first line/second line nomenclatures drive me nuts, and I've said that to Micah on twitter before. It really should be something along the lines of great, good, okay, bad.... Or something along those lines.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
50,510
22,084
Delo is a 13th forward. Tinker toy. Even when he plays it's 3 shifts a period.

Laughton has to play LW, center just kills his value b/c he's not a good defender, lacks playmaking and puck carrying skills. Used right, he has value, LW forechecker, PK. Average skater at this point in his career. Average size.
 

Beef Invictus

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Dec 21, 2009
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Delo is a 13th forward. Tinker toy. Even when he plays it's 3 shifts a period.

Laughton has to play LW, center just kills his value b/c he's not a good defender, lacks playmaking and puck carrying skills. Used right, he has value, LW forechecker, PK. Average skater at this point in his career. Average size.

13th forwards don't pace for 40 games after getting media spots and management comments in the summer highlighting how important he is.
 
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deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
50,510
22,084
Why did Brink get benched?
Delo- 64 games 5 points
Brink- 63 games 15 points
Why do they not ice the team that gives them the best chance to win?
Delo plays 6-7 minutes a night at ES. So you don't have to carve out minutes for him from other forwards. I think he played b/c Torts is unhappy about other forwards going to the net.

You watch other teams set up screens on a regular basis in front of the Flyers net, and watch as Flyers forwards roam around the perimeter, you get frustrated.

I think the player I'm most disappointed in is Farabee, after a summer when he was finally healthy and could work out, doesn't seem to have any more grit in his play - he's got the hands to thrive around the net but seems to shy from crowds.

Brink has to play better 5x5, he has real value on PP2 (Michkov makes him redundant on PP1) but has to be able to hold his own.
 

kudymen

Hakstok was a fascist clique hiver lickballs.gif
Jun 18, 2011
22,990
44,526
Atlanta (Decatur)

Flyers STILL don’t have a Russian interpreter on retainer. These guys have the common sense of a pet rock.

These guys have a vigorous abhorrence of anything that could be interpreted as "pandering" to players.

"No one is bigger than the team!
Certainly not this dictionary!"
 

Magua

Entirely Palatable Product
Apr 25, 2016
38,502
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Huron of the Lakes
Honest question, does he show up well on any models?

The only model that matters! "Murrays Above Replacement."

I feel pretty comfortable saying (with proof) that the Flyers are the worst team in NHL history at evaluating defensive prospects. And the Bob Murray Defensive Prospect Sage talk reminds me of the praise Yzerman gets. Was his hit rate actually above average? It's plausible. But so much of it is skewed by drafting Lindholm at 6th overall and Fowler falling to 12th overall. Manson was as outlier fluky as it gets. And he gave so much back by jettisoning Theodore, Montour, Pettersson in their early 20s. He was terrible at the pro level.

If there was an inflection point for his impact on the Flyers I must've missed it over the last 12 months. Or perhaps you'd have an easier time arguing his defensive wisdom has set the team back half a decade.
 

bennysflyers16

Registered User
Jan 26, 2004
85,662
63,903
Why did Brink get benched?
Delo- 64 games 5 points
Brink- 63 games 15 points
Why do they not ice the team that gives them the best chance to win?
Because otherwise other teams would push us around. You think MM gets butt ended yesterday and their HW almost kills Couts, no way any of that happens with Dee Loser in the lineup !
 
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