2024-25 Roster Thread #1: The Beginninging

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BillDineen

Former Flyer / Extinct Dinosaur Advisor
Aug 9, 2009
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Meltzer from hockeybuzz:

"I was told by someone in hockey ops that Tortorella did not want "go too small on D" with three small/smallish D. York and Drysdale are in the lineup, so that squeezed out Andrae when he was called up. Right now with York out, though, there's an opportunity for Andrae. He was a bright spot last night."
 

Hollywood Cannon

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dinner-rolls-in-pan.jpg
 

deadhead

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Meltzer from hockeybuzz:

"I was told by someone in hockey ops that Tortorella did not want "go too small on D" with three small/smallish D. York and Drysdale are in the lineup, so that squeezed out Andrae when he was called up. Right now with York out, though, there's an opportunity for Andrae. He was a bright spot last night."
Just watch the traffic around the Flyers net against teams like Minnesota and you can see why.
 

flyersnorth

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Oct 7, 2019
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For sure - fans can't win

I think this is just what a bad team looks like. They can look decent in spurts, but ultimately they will regress to their talent and team level.

Not sure what the big difference was last year. Is it as simple as Walker and Hart and the team playing above their heads?

Our team defense is awful, and we have the goaltending to match. Our team offense is very erratic. It's really only the same 3-4 players contributing offensively and every one else is just a passenger.

I'm sure they will figure out some stability and won't *look* this bad all year, but I'm not sure they will match last year's output. I thought they would be playoff bubble before the season started, but now, it seems very unlikely!
 

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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The fact that the Blackhawks have given up 9 less goals than the Flyers in the same amount of games should really show how bad this f***ing team is. They are running at about 3.5 goals given up on average a game.

Briere is too f***ing stupid to realize that there are going to be a lot of players who don't want to be here.
Both teams have played 9 games:
Chicago 5x5 18.88 xGA - all 31.14
Flyers 5x5 16.57 xGA - all 27.05

Hmm. Wonder why Flyers have given up more goals?
 

ellja3

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May 19, 2014
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There's a joke between me and my buddy that if PHI continues this way, even Ābols won't be able to save Flyers.

Sigh.

@deadhead , analytics-wise, any other good nuggets you can share? (no sarcasm, btw). I want to dig a bit deeper myself, perhaps on player-level, but would appreciate being shown direction, slightly.
 

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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There's a joke between me and my buddy that if PHI continues this way, even Ābols won't be able to save Flyers.

Sigh.

@deadhead , analytics-wise, any other good nuggets you can share? (no sarcasm, btw). I want to dig a bit deeper myself, perhaps on player-level, but would appreciate being shown direction, slightly.
I'd ask Jo Jo, I can't afford to sign up to the best sites (spend too much money on the NYT and the Economist on a fixed income).

Flyers are worse this year on advanced stats, but the goalies have been the biggest problem, similar to the last 20 games last year when Ersson wore down. Some of this may be the metrics don't capture how bad the scoring chances allowed have been, but mostly Ersson being meh and Fedotov being awful..

Last 20 last season v first 9 this season:
xGF 53.29%, HCDF 55.25%, (GA - xGA)/60 = 1.11
xGF 47.06%, HDCF 46.44%, (GA-xGA)/60 = 1.44

They're not playing as well and the goalies are even worse.
 
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freakydallas13

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Jan 30, 2007
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I think this is just what a bad team looks like. They can look decent in spurts, but ultimately they will regress to their talent and team level.

Not sure what the big difference was last year. Is it as simple as Walker and Hart and the team playing above their heads?

Our team defense is awful, and we have the goaltending to match. Our team offense is very erratic. It's really only the same 3-4 players contributing offensively and every one else is just a passenger.

I'm sure they will figure out some stability and won't *look* this bad all year, but I'm not sure they will match last year's output. I thought they would be playoff bubble before the season started, but now, it seems very unlikely!
Again I have to point out that no one cares this team is bad, and anyone (not you specifically) who complains and counters with "Well you wanted to tank, what did you expect?" Is arguing in bad faith.

What we care about is the fact that a "bad" team is holding onto Scotty "Franchise" Laughton instead of trading him for the first that was offered. We care that this team resigns ever player it can, players like Seeler and Hathaway instead of trading them for assets. We care that players that line up poorly with the rebuild timeline (4 more years according to some) are being reigned to max years like Konecny. We care that the cap is being wasted giving inconsistent middle six wingers like Tippet max term. We care that contracts like Fedotov's are being handed out based on nothing but vibes. We care that young players like Frost and Brink are being scratched for washed vets like Johnson or Deslauriers. We care that this organization bleeds huge amounts of value going for "fit" (Drysdale, drafting Luchanko). We hate that the GM shows zero patience at all (resigning Hathaway day 1, dumping Hayes immediately instead of waiting). We hate that young players who play here for any amount of time inevitably regress (look at Farabee or Foerster this season). We hate that we have a pathetically mean coach who is vindictive against certain players for no reason other than he doesn't like them. We hate that said coach has no clue how to coach a modern offence. We hate that the organizational power structure runs through this dinosaur coach, and that he was only hired because the ancient advisers who have a stranglehold on this team can't let go of their glory days from 50 years ago. We hate that incompetency in coaching (rocky and the PP, Lappy in general) is not only not punished, but seemingly rewarded. We hate that the GM thinks we already have enough elite talent on the roster to win a cup.

But most of all, we hate that this team is pegged to be nothing more than a first round playoff speed bump for actual contending teams for another decade, because we just finished watching exactly that for the previous decade and we've had enough.
 
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VladDrag

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Feb 6, 2018
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I'd ask Jo Jo, I can't afford to sign up to the best sites (spend too much money on the NYT and the Economist on a fixed income).

Flyers are worse this year on advanced stats, but the goalies have been the biggest problem, similar to the last 20 games last year when Ersson wore down. Some of this may be the metrics don't capture how bad the scoring chances allowed have been, but mostly Ersson being meh and Fedotov being awful..

Last 20 last season v first 9 this season:
xGF 53.29%, HCDF 55.25%, (GA - xGA)/60 = 1.11
xGF 47.06%, HDCF 46.44%, (GA-xGA)/60 = 1.44

They're not playing as well and the goalies are even worse.
What the paywall sites are saying they haven't been a great offensive teams, but they've been decent defensively.

1730130019244.png



1730130004192.png


Last year they were one of the better teams with rush chances, but that was not from exiting their zone. It was from good defensive structure in the NZ breaking down other teams breakouts. That doesn't appear to be happening this year....The 24-25 tracking data hasn't quite been released yet, so we'll see what it looks like in that regard.

In terms of goaltending - they've been bad.... But last year, they were also awful by this same Site, so I don't think they were much better.

1730130430517.png


If you want to look specifically at players, see below. The team is putting up decent defensive metrics, but apart from TK, poor-to-average offensive metrics (Michkov included). I think there's a lot of things not going well, including both from players as well as from the coaching staff.

1730130535622.png


1730130570611.png
 

TB87

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
May 30, 2018
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Flyerfan4life

Registered User
Jun 9, 2010
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Richmond BC, Canada

Flyers STILL don’t have a Russian interpreter on retainer. These guys have the common sense of a pet rock.
just fold the franchise... this Org. is just bad at even the most basic of basic things.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
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Armored Train
Meltzer from hockeybuzz:

"I was told by someone in hockey ops that Tortorella did not want "go too small on D" with three small/smallish D. York and Drysdale are in the lineup, so that squeezed out Andrae when he was called up. Right now with York out, though, there's an opportunity for Andrae. He was a bright spot last night."

Stupid as hell.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
131,029
172,376
Armored Train

Flyers STILL don’t have a Russian interpreter on retainer. These guys have the common sense of a pet rock.

These guys have a vigorous abhorrence of anything that could be interpreted as "pandering" to players.
 
Feb 19, 2003
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Concord, New Hampshire
Sounds like a good reason why they didnt draft Buium, contrary to what some, alright, one, on here might say...
Yet if they had a bunch of big poor skating defenseman with zero offensive upside that would have not stopped them from drafting another one.
Can’t have too many smallish defenseman who can move the puck.
Flyers hockey
 

freakydallas13

Registered User
Jan 30, 2007
7,713
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Vancouver
What the paywall sites are saying they haven't been a great offensive teams, but they've been decent defensively.

View attachment 922797


View attachment 922796

Last year they were one of the better teams with rush chances, but that was not from exiting their zone. It was from good defensive structure in the NZ breaking down other teams breakouts. That doesn't appear to be happening this year....The 24-25 tracking data hasn't quite been released yet, so we'll see what it looks like in that regard.

In terms of goaltending - they've been bad.... But last year, they were also awful by this same Site, so I don't think they were much better.

View attachment 922801

If you want to look specifically at players, see below. The team is putting up decent defensive metrics, but apart from TK, poor-to-average offensive metrics (Michkov included). I think there's a lot of things not going well, including both from players as well as from the coaching staff.

View attachment 922803

View attachment 922805
Big oof on Drysdale.
 

freakydallas13

Registered User
Jan 30, 2007
7,713
18,940
Vancouver

Flyers STILL don’t have a Russian interpreter on retainer. These guys have the common sense of a pet rock.
Pathetic. Flyers have had interpreters for post game interviews before, why the hell did they stop now? Are they that hard up for cash?

He's never shown up well in these models.
Honest question, does he show up well on any models?
 

SolidSnakeUS

HFBoards Sponsor
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Aug 13, 2009
49,549
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Flyers STILL don’t have a Russian interpreter on retainer. These guys have the common sense of a pet rock.

When incompetency turns into straight up uncaring and abusive. f*** this management.
 

flyersnorth

Registered User
Oct 7, 2019
4,752
7,229
Again I have to point out that no one cares this team is bad, and anyone (not you specifically) who complains and counters with "Well you wanted to tank, what did you expect?" Is arguing in bad faith.

What we care about is the fact that a "bad" team is holding onto Scotty "Franchise" Laughton instead of trading him for the first that was offered. We care that this team resigns ever player it can, players like Seeler and Hathaway instead of trading them for assets. We care that players that line up poorly with the rebuild timeline (4 more years according to some) are being reigned to max years like Konecny. We care that the cap is being wasted giving inconsistent middle six wingers like Tippet max term. We care that contracts like Fedotov's are being handed out based on nothing but vibes. We care that young players like Frost and Brink are being scratched for washed vets like Johnson or Deslauriers. We care that this organization bleeds huge amounts of value going for "fit" (Drysdale, drafting Luchanko). We hate that the GM shows zero patience at all (resigning Hathaway day 1, dumping Hayes immediately instead of waiting). We hate that young players who play here for any amount of time inevitably regress (look at Farabee or Foerster this season). We hate that we have a pathetically mean coach who is vindictive against certain players for no reason other than he doesn't like them. We hate that said coach has no clue how to coach a modern offence. We hate that the organizational power structure runs through this dinosaur coach, and that he was only hired because the ancient advisers who have a stranglehold on this team can't let go of their glory days from 50 years ago. We hate that incompetency in coaching (rocky and the PP, Lappy in general) is not only not punished, but seemingly rewarded. We hate that the GM thinks we already have enough elite talent on the roster to win a cup.

But most of all, we hate that this team is pegged to be nothing more than a first round playoff speed bump for actual contending teams for another decade, because we just finished watching exactly that for the previous decade and we've had enough.

I don't disagree with any of that, and I was just pointing out that they look bad because they are bad. I know, how very tautological.

I'm not an NHL team builder. I'm also only a Flyers fan, not a hockey fan (as in I don't really watch any other hockey, no time or desire) so my knowledge of other teams and players is almost 100% through reading about them here, seeing news about them, or watching them when they play the Flyers.

So with that caveat out of the way, I do feel that if they can be organically bad yet still have some talented veterans on the roster (TK, Coots, Sanheim) that is a better supporting development environment than one stripped to the studs and devoid of talented veteran leaders.

Still, I felt like trading TK would have been a smart move to capitalize on a high-value asset who would likely age of out of the competitive window. But they felt differently, so whatever, I will enjoy watching TK here instead of somewhere else. Same with Laughton. The time to trade him was just before they re-signed him. But they didn't.

Not a huge fan of the Tippett extension. I don't think he's a max term core player kind of guy.

I think Torts has some strong parts to his coaching style, and some downright petty elements too.

I felt like they should have taken Caufield instead of York and Brink. Buium instead of Luchanko. Those are the two biggest head scratchers.

So are all these "miscues" fatal? I have no idea.

I do know that a team that drafts #2, #5, #7, and #7 overall in a short span should have more to show for what we have now. The only one of those four players on the Flyers is Michkov. They blew their high picks, plain and simple. And by "blew" I mean they did not provide the Flyers with a high-talent core.

We had a franchise goaltender, and he turned out to be not who we thought he was.

They've been mired in mediocrity and bottom-third for over a decade now.

At the very least, they have Michkov. He is a legitimate elite talent you can build around. But they have so many organizational holes. If they can hit on a top 5 pick this year, maybe that starts to build momentum in the right direction.

Just my $0.02.
 
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deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
51,510
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What the paywall sites are saying they haven't been a great offensive teams, but they've been decent defensively.

View attachment 922797


View attachment 922796

Last year they were one of the better teams with rush chances, but that was not from exiting their zone. It was from good defensive structure in the NZ breaking down other teams breakouts. That doesn't appear to be happening this year....The 24-25 tracking data hasn't quite been released yet, so we'll see what it looks like in that regard.

In terms of goaltending - they've been bad.... But last year, they were also awful by this same Site, so I don't think they were much better.

View attachment 922801

If you want to look specifically at players, see below. The team is putting up decent defensive metrics, but apart from TK, poor-to-average offensive metrics (Michkov included). I think there's a lot of things not going well, including both from players as well as from the coaching staff.

View attachment 922803

View attachment 922805
Interesting, now we know why Cates is back at center with Luchanko gone.
And why Brink got benched.

It doesn't surprise me that playing Michkov and Drysdale hurts the team overall, both are physically talented, but also very inexperienced. The difference is you can see the flashes in Michkov that will cause Torts to be patient, but I think Drysdale will have a much shorter leash.
 
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