2024-25 Roster Thread #1: The Beginninging

[deadhead]

As far as Buium v Luchanko, either one would help this team, since the two gapping holes are LHD and center.

Don't buy they passed on Buium b/c of size, he's going to be 6'0 200 lbs or so, that's small?
Big, offensively skilled D-men are top five picks (unicorns), so it was always going to be a tradeoff.
It may be with the rule changes more "undersized" offensive D-men are having success, so they're being devalued relative to big mobile D-men and centers.

May depend how they see the 2025 draft shaking out, if there are multiple offense first LHDs they expect to be available in the top 40, but few top 6 center candidates, this might be a multi-draft gamble. Don't have enough information to have an opinion.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

As far as Buium v Luchanko, either one would help this team, since the two gapping holes are LHD and center.

Don't buy they passed on Buium b/c of size, he's going to be 6'0 200 lbs or so, that's small?
Big, offensively skilled D-men are top five picks (unicorns), so it was always going to be a tradeoff.
It may be with the rule changes more "undersized" offensive D-men are having success, so they're being devalued relative to big mobile D-men and centers.

May depend how they see the 2025 draft shaking out, if there are multiple offense first LHDs they expect to be available in the top 40, but few top 6 center candidates, this might be a multi-draft gamble. Don't have enough information to have an opinion.

HE SAID IT. YOU CAN’T JUST IGNORE WHAT PEOPLE SAY WHEN IT GOES AGAINST YOUR STANCES WHEN THE ACTIONS MATCH THE STATEMENTS!

They’re telling us who they are, believe them, because their actions match what they are saying.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

HE SAID IT. YOU CAN’T JUST IGNORE WHAT PEOPLE SAY WHEN IT GOES AGAINST YOUR STANCES.

Really wish I could see what made you post in all caps but then I'd actually have to read deadhead or ghostsbeer

 

[JojoTheWhale]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1806893450291454037

 

[renberg]

Dont get me wrong I want the team to succeed I just dont see it happening without significant changes at the top, which a lot posters have stressed.

Nothing will improve until the guy behind the bench gets burned.

 

[deadhead]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1806893450291454037

I know you take that stuff with a grain of salt.

I tend to rely on "revealed preference." [for laymen, "watch what I do, not what I say"]

If they really thought Buium was going to be a great player (i.e. Makar or Fox) do you think they would have hesitated to take him?

I see it more as being politic, it would have been tacky to provide their real reasons for passing on Buium (though knocking Buium would fit the narrative around here that it's all "PR").

Now they may end up being wrong, but it's pretty obvious they thought Luchanko was in the same tier as a prospect.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I know you take that stuff with a grain of salt.

I tend to rely on "revealed preference." [for laymen, "watch what I do, not what I say"]

If they really thought Buium was going to be a great player (i.e. Makar or Fox) do you think they would have hesitated to take him?

I see it more as being politic, it would have been tacky to provide their real reasons for passing on Buium (though knocking Buium would fit the narrative around here that it's all "PR").

Now they may end up being wrong, but it's pretty obvious they thought Luchanko was in the same tier as a prospect.

Yes, of course.

But Charlie asked a specific question to which he chose to give an even more specific answer and then tried to walk it back the next day. That feels materially different to me than the usual generic PR.

As I say every time this is brought up, fantastic job by COC on this one. It's so nice to be able to say that.

 

[deadhead]

The irony is CF would have taken Buium.
He was always "safety first" in his dealings, that is, don't go out on a limb.
Which is why his trades were always "consensus value," that is, he'd pay what other teams generally would pay in trades and in free agency.

His problem was he bought the wrong things at the store.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

The irony is CF would have taken Buium.
He was always "safety first" in his dealings, that is, don't go out on a limb.
Which is why his trades were always "consensus value," that is, he'd pay what other teams generally would pay in trades and in free agency.

His problem was he bought the wrong things at the store.

I have zero faith whatsoever they would have taken Buium. 2019 was a Fletcher draft where they went out on two giant limbs in R1.

Hell, you can argue they went out on 4 different limbs to make that York pick.

I might add that was one case where I and others wanted the big Defenseman over the small one.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You and others talk about NAK like he is some good player. NAK had his shot. He failed and was passed over. Got a change of scenery and now is a borderline NHL plyer.

He is not a good example of the Flyers failed process. If he is then pretty much every team has a failed process. People still talk about NAK is pure entertainment.

Has any other player gone on to anything worthwhile because of the Flyers failed process? Is there a pattern of "misses" who have gone Elshere to contribute? Maybe just maybe those players are just not good enough. Nah can't be. To me it is the draft that is the main issue. Not Devlopment.

Do not misconstrue that I think the Flyer's process is good or anything to that nature. They are incompetent. No argument here.

He didn't fail, is the thing. The team wrongly think he did, which they continue to do with other players because they overvalue veteran 4th liners. That's the whole problem.

 

[freakydallas13]

Of course EJ is needed, did anyone claim Attard on waivers? That was your alternative, a player that even bad teams don't think is worth looking at. EJ is a serviceable veteran, perfect for #7. Better than Staal or Belpedio.

Why did a rebuilding team need to add a veteran rental at the deadline? He absolutely was not needed, they even missed the playoffs while adding him.

 

[freakydallas13]

The idea that a mediocre AHL player is suddenly going to blossom if you give him 15 minutes a night in the NHL is absurd.

What about a mediocre 18 year old?

 

[deadhead]

I have zero faith whatsoever they would have taken Buium. 2019 was a Fletcher draft where they went out on two giant limbs in R1.

Hell, you can argue they went out on 4 different limbs to make that York pick.

I might add that was one case where I and others wanted the big Defenseman over the small one.

I think it was York and Brink v Boldy or Caufield. But they certainly weren't size queens that draft.

Not sure what big D-man you're talking about, Soderstrom?

 

[Beef Invictus]

I know you take that stuff with a grain of salt.

I tend to rely on "revealed preference." [for laymen, "watch what I do, not what I say"]

If they really thought Buium was going to be a great player (i.e. Makar or Fox) do you think they would have hesitated to take him?

I see it more as being politic, it would have been tacky to provide their real reasons for passing on Buium (though knocking Buium would fit the narrative around here that it's all "PR").

Now they may end up being wrong, but it's pretty obvious they thought Luchanko was in the same tier as a prospect.

You do not take it with a grain of salt when their actions match their statements.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I think it was York and Brink v Boldy or Caufield. But they certainly weren't size queens that draft.

Not sure what big D-man you're talking about, Soderstrom?

Harley.

They couldn’t possibly have known Brink would be available. Hell, they traded back up to get him.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The irony is CF would have taken Buium.
He was always "safety first" in his dealings, that is, don't go out on a limb.
Which is why his trades were always "consensus value," that is, he'd pay what other teams generally would pay in trades and in free agency.

His problem was he bought the wrong things at the store.

His trades weren't consensus value. They were losses.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Of course EJ is needed, did anyone claim Attard on waivers? That was your alternative, a player that even bad teams don't think is worth looking at. EJ is a serviceable veteran, perfect for #7. Better than Staal or Belpedio.

It was a 1st and cap room for Walker, Briere was smart enough not to take a 2nd (#50+) and a C asset to save cap room they don't need at this point in a rebuild. You want to save that cap room so you can garner a 3rd rd pick at the TDL? Cap room isn't worth what is was 2-3 years ago with a flat cap.

They'll look at Luchanko, but odds are 3C is Cates and 4LW is Laughton.
Again, no one claimed Lycksell or Richard.

If teams don't claim your waiver cuts they're saying those are marginal players.
Sure they might step up at some point, but if the Flyers actually put them in the lineup to start the season you'd be saying how much the team sucks if they have to start someone like Lycksell or Attard.

Waivers are not a good gauge of player value. Every game NAK and Ghost play, proves this notion wrong.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No

You and others talk about NAK like he is some good player. NAK had his shot. He failed and was passed over. Got a change of scenery and now is a borderline NHL plyer.

He is not a good example of the Flyers failed process. If he is then pretty much every team has a failed process. People still talk about NAK is pure entertainment.

Has any other player gone on to anything worthwhile because of the Flyers failed process? Is there a pattern of "misses" who have gone Elshere to contribute? Maybe just maybe those players are just not good enough. Nah can't be. To me it is the draft that is the main issue. Not Devlopment.

Do not misconstrue that I think the Flyer's process is good or anything to that nature. They are incompetent. No argument here.

No. We talk about him like he is a 4th line player (he is) which the Flyers passed on in favor of worse veterans. Stuff they still do.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Actually, there's been a lot of turnover the last couple years in scouting and development personnel, from analytics (hired two MS), to new heads of pro scouting, development, etc. They've kept a few "lifers" around but not sure a team with good cash flow treating long-time employees decently is a bad thing - but Brown is now a scout, no longer head of pro scouting.

I was excited about Ratcliffe until I started researching "large" players - long odds of success and even then, longer development path. Came to realize there's a reason players over 6'4 and under 5'10 drop in the draft - the odds are greater against success. Tall D-men tend to fare better than tall forwards (probably b/c less puck handling and long reach helps to break up plays). Live and learn.

I don't think Flyers drafted awful under Hextall, except the first two rounds where bad choices and bad luck combined. Later rounds were probably above average overall (Colorado almost never hits past round 2, for example). Flahr has done better with 1st rd picks so far. CF just traded away too many picks in the top 100. My rule would be never trade a pick in the top 40 unless you're getting a top 9/top 5 with upside and under 25. That's your "seed corn." Teams that trade these picks at the TDL are foolish, most rental acquisitions don't work out b/c you have limited time to integrate them and chemistry is always a gamble. Make your major trades in July, not March.

Once you get past the 3rd rd, the primary value of draft picks is to trade for veterans to patch holes, the odds of success are low, and you only have so much contract room for marginal prospects. So most of those picks are used to build AHL depth over time and provide injury replacements. On the margin, worth adding at low/no cost (as Howie does, get teams to throw one in to sweeten a trade) but not something to get excited over.

I chuckle at the idea there has been a lot of turnover.

Who other than Hex, Fletcher, and Pryor has been fired from that front office, and the departments associated with it? The medical staff? Please.

Hiring a few new voices doesn’t change a damn thing. Especially when some of those “new” voices are guys like Murray. Wonder who vouched for him? Thankfully we have the little gift in Drysdale to know how positive his influence will be.

No. There has been basically zero meaningful change. The product, the philosophies, and approach is all fouled with the same old stench. Which should shock nobody.

Old growth forests see more turnover than the Philadelphia Flyers.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

I chuckle at the idea there has been a lot of turnover.

Who other than Hex, Fletcher, and Pryor has been fired from that front office, and the departments associated with it? The medical staff? Please.

Hiring a few new voices doesn’t change a damn thing. Especially when some of those “new” voices are guys like Murray. Wonder who vouched for him? Thankfully we have the little gift in Drysdale to know how positive his influence will be.

No. There has been basically zero meaningful change. The product, the philosophies, and approach is all fouled with the same old stench. Which should shock nobody.

Old growth forests see more turnover than the Philadelphia Flyers.

the guy they hired at DBs position was hired/told Torts was a do not touch...

tell me again what has changed from the top down ?

oh right.. nothing. just a new guy in the same old suit

 

[bennysflyers16]

So they gonna keep this kid to play him 11 mins a night instead of letting him go to junior and try to develop into a scorer. Maybe make team Canada , but no , let’s see if he can be a plug 3C.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I chuckle at the idea there has been a lot of turnover.

Who other than Hex, Fletcher, and Pryor has been fired from that front office, and the departments associated with it? The medical staff? Please.

Hiring a few new voices doesn’t change a damn thing. Especially when some of those “new” voices are guys like Murray. Wonder who vouched for him? Thankfully we have the little gift in Drysdale to know how positive his influence will be.

No. There has been basically zero meaningful change. The product, the philosophies, and approach is all fouled with the same old stench. Which should shock nobody.

Old growth forests see more turnover than the Philadelphia Flyers.

The old voices are hiring the "new" ones, so it's all the same. Hence why nothing changes.