2024-25 Roster Thread #1: The Beginninging

[blackjackmulligan]

5x5 is a good basis for comparison b/c PP scoring often is a matter of being on the right team with a couple really good playmakers setting you up. If Michkov is for real, and Drysdale can fill the PP QB role, everyone else should double their PP scoring this season without being better players.

The other thing to remember is PP/PK are essentially mirror images, if you can build a top ten PK unit you can get by with an average PP (which should be the Flyers' goal right now). A top PK depends on solid goalie play to be effective because even a bad PP will still get a shot or two on goal every PP.

If you can't find a McDavid, you can build a solid offense around three lines (see Dallas). So an extra guy over 40 will balance not having a guy hit 60+.

Top scoring teams, players over 40, players over 30:
COL (304): 4/7 (Makar, Toews) - 5 forwards over 30
TOR (303): 5/8 (Reilly) - 7
Dallas (298): 7/10 (Heiskenan) - 9
EDM (294): 5/8 (Bouchard, Ekholm) - 6
TB (291): 5/7 (Hedman) - 6
NJ (283): 3/6 (Hughes) - 5
NYR (282): 4/6 (Fox) - 5
Van (279): 5/8 (Hughes, Hronek) - 6
CAR (279: 3/8 (Skjei, Slavin) - 6
FLA (268): 4/5 (Forsling) - 4
Bos (267), Winnipeg (259) - you don't need to score if you have top goalies!

Flyers (235): 3/5 (Sanheim) - 4
Couts 29, Laughton 26, Foerster 24, York 22, Atkinson 22, Brink 20, Cates 16.
Out of this group, you need 2-3 to jump into the 30+ group, and Frost from 30 to 40+.
MIchkov replacing Atkinson is a good bet for 1.

What year do you see the Flyers being ready for cup contention?

 

[deadhead]

What year do you see the Flyers being ready for cup contention?

2027-28. Unless a goalie emerges. Then sooner.

As FLA, Winnipeg and Boston show, top ten goalie play can elevate an average offensive team that plays solid defense.

Think they need Michkov, Luchanko, Bonk, a couple current players to take a step up, maybe one key trade, and a couple picks from the 2025 draft to step in. If they can build 3 solid lines, an average PP, a top ten PK and better than average goalie play, they're a top 8 team.

 

[Fight4yourRight]

Who is #20?

I don’t think Michkov really needs to be meeting with the media every day.

This is line with him thinking anyone under the age of 30 is a moron though.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

2027-28. Unless a goalie emerges. Then sooner.

As FLA, Winnipeg and Boston show, top ten goalie play can elevate an average offensive team that plays solid defense.

Think they need Michkov, Luchanko, Bonk, a couple current players to take a step up, maybe one key trade, and a couple picks from the 2025 draft to step in. If they can build 3 solid lines, an average PP, a top ten PK and better than average goalie play, they're a top 8 team.

Those teams are also much better than the Flyers. Though yes a goalie can do that no doubt. However don't see any goalie they have now or in the system being that guy by 27/28. Unless Ivan is a stud.

So 3 years if a very optimistic stand. I totally disagree.

They need MM to be a flat out star for starters. Top 10 player in the league. Then need another one at least to be élite level up front and on the back end. Do not see anyone in the system at this time fitting that bill. Or even coming close. So how do they get them?

The you have the coaching aspect. Who will be that coach in 27/28.

 

[deadhead]

Carolina and Dallas are good models for the Flyers, don't cry that you don't have 2-3 elite scorers, go out and build your offense 3 lines deep and have 2-3 D-men who can score (Sanheim and ???). That's doable given the ammunition they have in this summer's draft.

Florida won with a first D-pair of Forsling - Montour, Reinhart isn't elite, he had a career year like ROR in St. Louis, Tkachuk, Barkov and Verhaeghe. After that, nothing special.

Meanwhile, NJ was a top ten scoring team that finished 7 points behind the Flyers, both teams had bad goaltending, but NJ played mediocre defense (PHL 2.37 xGA/60, NJ 2.63 xGA/60). Which is why NJ went out and spent the offseason building up their bottom six.

Average offense with good defense and good goalies is as effective as elite offense with average defense and average goalies. It's easier to build a good defensive team than obtain elite scorers.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Carolina and Dallas are good models for the Flyers, don't cry that you don't have 2-3 elite scorers, go out and build your offense 3 lines deep and have 2-3 D-men who can score (Sanheim and ???). That's doable given the ammunition they have in this summer's draft.

Florida won with a first D-pair of Forsling - Montour, Reinhart isn't elite, he had a career year like ROR in St. Louis, Tkachuk, Barkov and Verhaeghe. After that, nothing special.

Do the Flyers follow the Carolina analytical ways? No the do not ad have shown no inclination to do so. So using them as a model may not be a good example.

Florida had a very good fn team. Simple as that. No need to break it down.

How does one describe the Flyers roster then?

 

[Flyerfan4life]

MM threatens the spotlight away from the face of the franchise.

not one person here could have called this.. not even one..

 

[deadhead]

Do the Flyers follow the Carolina analytical ways? No the do not ad have shown no inclination to do so. So using them as a model may not be a good example.

Florida had a very good fn team. Simple as that. No need to break it down.

How does one describe the Flyers roster then?

A team in the middle of a rebuild.

They've filled out the roster (compare to the last few seasons or even last decade when they had some questionable players like VdV & Hagg on the 4th line and 3rd pair). They're building prospect depth.

The issue the next 2-3 years is upgrading the talent, either current players step up (Frost, Foerster, Brink, Drysdale, Zamula) or they'll be replaced. Older players like Laughton, Hathaway, Seeler, Risto will be phased out over this period.

Bonk, Luchanko, 1st rd picks this summer are key players in this process.

The wildcards will be the players taken after the 1st rd, you need to hit on 2 or 3 to have quality organizational depth. Which 2 or 3? Barkey? Bump? Berglund? Mills? Zavragin? Bjarnason? We'll find out.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I'm quite sure that they factually lack talent. Look around the league.

It's by design. It's their goal.

 

[Beef Invictus]

A team in the middle of a rebuild.

They've filled out the roster (compare to the last few seasons or even last decade when they had some questionable players like VdV & Hagg on the 4th line and 3rd pair). They're building prospect depth.

The issue the next 2-3 years is upgrading the talent, either current players step up (Frost, Foerster, Brink, Drysdale, Zamula) or they'll be replaced. Older players like Laughton, Hathaway, Seeler, Risto will be phased out over this period.

Bonk, Luchanko, 1st rd picks this summer are key players in this process.

The wildcards will be the players taken after the 1st rd, you need to hit on 2 or 3 to have quality organizational depth. Which 2 or 3? Barkey? Bump? Berglund? Mills? Zavragin? Bjarnason? We'll find out.

If they're in the middle of a rebuild then it's a mistake to have kept players like Laughton and Seeler and Hathaway whose only real value is to become draft picks that may matter when the rebuild is done.

Either they aren't rebuilding or they've screwed it up. Take your pick

 

[FlyerNutter]

they’ve been retooling for a decade. Under 3 GMs.

Michkov, and TK is all they have to show for it.

 

[deadhead]

If they're in the middle of a rebuild then it's a mistake to have kept players like Laughton and Seeler and Hathaway whose only real value is to become draft picks that may matter when the rebuild is done.

Either they aren't rebuilding or they've screwed it up. Take your pick

Or maybe they think a veteran core is important for player development, and that forcing good prospects to play with marginal prospects who have little experience would be counterproductive for their development.

Seeler - Drysdale is a good example, what young LHD would you pair with Drysdale who could help him defensively? Zamula? Ginning? Andrae? McDonald?

 

[santapore]

next star goalie is hopefully yegor zavragin. have done crazy numbers in juniors and now at 19 playing sochi khl. and again very good numbers even tho only 3 games. dont know why people is not talking about him much

 

[BiggE]

What year do you see the Flyers being ready for cup contention?

3236

 

[Kshahdoo]

Given the first preseason game is away, Michkov is probably not going to play in it? As far as I remember NHL teams prefer to play their top players in front of their public in preseason games.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

A team in the middle of a rebuild.

They've filled out the roster (compare to the last few seasons or even last decade when they had some questionable players like VdV & Hagg on the 4th line and 3rd pair). They're building prospect depth.

The issue the next 2-3 years is upgrading the talent, either current players step up (Frost, Foerster, Brink, Drysdale, Zamula) or they'll be replaced. Older players like Laughton, Hathaway, Seeler, Risto will be phased out over this period.

Bonk, Luchanko, 1st rd picks this summer are key players in this process.

The wildcards will be the players taken after the 1st rd, you need to hit on 2 or 3 to have quality organizational depth. Which 2 or 3? Barkey? Bump? Berglund? Mills? Zavragin? Bjarnason? We'll find out.

Flyers version of a rebuild. Not a real version. they are taking the middle of the road approach which will not lead anywhere.

Their prospect depth is not very good. After MM only 2 guys you can say for sure will get NHL time. Flyers have a very hard time finding guys after the 1st rd.

Will other teams also improve or just the Flyers?

 

[VladDrag]

@usahockey22flyers — were you at the scrimmage? Do you know what the lines were?

 

[deadhead]

Flyers have a very hard time finding guys after the 1st rd.

Zamula UDFA, Cates 5th, Ersson 5th, Brink 2nd, Lycksell 6th, Fedotov 7th.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Zamula UDFA, Cates 5th, Ersson 5th, Brink 2nd, Lycksell 6th, Fedotov 7th.

Wow.

I’m impressed

 

[trostol]

Zamula UDFA, Cates 5th, Ersson 5th, Brink 2nd, Lycksell 6th, Fedotov 7th.

Cates you overhype

Lycksell you keep saying isn't ready/good enough..

 

[deadhead]

You're not going to build an allstar team off late rounds, but to consistently find NHL players is a sign your scouting ain't bad.

Cates is overrated, but I'll bet, whoever has access to the numbers, that his WAR is higher than Frost over the past two seasons.

 

[BiggE]

2027-28. Unless a goalie emerges. Then sooner.

As FLA, Winnipeg and Boston show, top ten goalie play can elevate an average offensive team that plays solid defense.

Think they need Michkov, Luchanko, Bonk, a couple current players to take a step up, maybe one key trade, and a couple picks from the 2025 draft to step in. If they can build 3 solid lines, an average PP, a top ten PK and better than average goalie play, they're a top 8 team.

Between 2013-2020, the Flyers selected 10 times in the 1st round, twice in the top 10. By your logic, they should be in their Cup window right now

Oops

Outside of Michkov, they don’t have a single, sure thing, 1st line forward nor 1st pair D in the system. They currently lack a 1C and a 1D and don’t have a single proven NHL starting goalie on the roster. Bonk is not a given to be any more than a 4/5 Dman, Luchanko is not a given to be more than a middle six C and not one goalie in the system is even guaranteed to be an NHL player.

Could they contend by 2027-28? Yeah, maybe, if a whole lot of things go perfectly. But the odds are greater that they will continue to plod along in the sea of mediocrity for many years to come.

Briere is question mark at best and in a year or 2 they’ll be looking for a new HC. Try looking at this organization with a little honest objectivity, please.

 

[freakydallas13]

5x5 is a good basis for comparison b/c PP scoring often is a matter of being on the right team with a couple really good playmakers setting you up. If Michkov is for real, and Drysdale can fill the PP QB role, everyone else should double their PP scoring this season without being better players.

The other thing to remember is PP/PK are essentially mirror images, if you can build a top ten PK unit you can get by with an average PP (which should be the Flyers' goal right now). A top PK depends on solid goalie play to be effective because even a bad PP will still get a shot or two on goal every PP.

If you can't find a McDavid, you can build a solid offense around three lines (see Dallas). So an extra guy over 40 will balance not having a guy hit 60+.

Top scoring teams, players over 40, players over 30:
COL (304): 4/7 (Makar, Toews) - 5 forwards over 30
TOR (303): 5/8 (Reilly) - 7
Dallas (298): 7/10 (Heiskenan) - 9
EDM (294): 5/8 (Bouchard, Ekholm) - 6
TB (291): 5/7 (Hedman) - 6
NJ (283): 3/6 (Hughes) - 5
NYR (282): 4/6 (Fox) - 5
Van (279): 5/8 (Hughes, Hronek) - 6
CAR (279: 3/8 (Skjei, Slavin) - 6
FLA (268): 4/5 (Forsling) - 4
Bos (267), Winnipeg (259) - you don't need to score if you have top goalies!

Flyers (235): 3/5 (Sanheim) - 4
Couts 29, Laughton 26, Foerster 24, York 22, Atkinson 22, Brink 20, Cates 16.
Out of this group, you need 2-3 to jump into the 30+ group, and Frost from 30 to 40+.
MIchkov replacing Atkinson is a good bet for 1.

Now do top PP scoring comparing the Flyers to the league.

 

[BiggE]

Zamula UDFA, Cates 5th, Ersson 5th, Brink 2nd, Lycksell 6th, Fedotov 7th.

So, a 6/7 D
A 4th line forward
A generic backup goalie
A forward who may, or may not, be an ok winger
An AHL call up depth winger
And a goalie who is a total question mark

That’s some bold drafting there, Cotton

 

[Beef Invictus]

Or maybe they think a veteran core is important for player development, and that forcing good prospects to play with marginal prospects who have little experience would be counterproductive for their development.

Seeler - Drysdale is a good example, what young LHD would you pair with Drysdale who could help him defensively? Zamula? Ginning? Andrae? McDonald?

They don't care about player development. They make that clear annually, especially as they refuse to do the things you insist they will to show they're developing players.

We've also yet to see any sign that their heavy reliance on veteran presence matters in the slightest.