2024-25 Roster Thread #1: The Beginninging

[trostol]

rebuild does not equal tanking

AHL level playing does not indicate what one may or may not do at the NHL level

we will never know because these prospects do not get solid chance to show what they can do at the NHL level...

Seeler, GH, etc should have been moved for assets be it younger players or draft picks..you play the prospects you have and see what you've got..you could, in theory, have a bunch of shit and need to get rid of it/replace...you could have actual NHL players...

a year or two of evaluating at the actual NHL level isn't going to kill them

 

[Beef Invictus]

Basically it's the same story here - you want to tank.
You don't dump useful NHL players unless you want to tank.

Flyers don't want to tank, they want to rebuild - the two are not synonymous.
Rebuilding means accumulating young assets (prospects, draft picks) and not expending assets to add older veteran to patch and win now.
Guys like Hathaway and Seeler are low cost, help you win and help establish a structure in which to integrate younger players.
They're not like giving JVR or Hayes big contracts.

If the Flyers had a couple top LHDs at LHV, they probably don't resign Seeler, same with Hathaway.
But when you look at the LHV prospects, none are NHL ready, none jump out at you.
They'll get opportunities during the season, but it's up to them to take advantage of them.

My bet would be on Desnoyers (22), Andrae (22), McDonald (22) followed by Rizzo (23), Avon (21), Tuomaala (21), Gendron (21). But I'm not counting on them in October, if ever.

Lycksell (25), Eklind (26), Abols (29), Attard (25), Ginning (25) are at an age when it's "do or die."

The prospects they'll make room for are players like Bonk and Luchanko.
Bump if he takes it up a notch this year. Same with Barkey.
The top picks this summer and so on.

But really, people complaining that Ginning (universally denigrated by the same people) isn't getting a chance to play full-time because they resigned Seeler? Come on, man!

You can't rebuild without finding out what you have as building blocks.

The Flyers refuse to find out. They are not rebuilding by anyone's definition, including your own. You shift your definition constantly and they still fail to meet it.

What is more valuable? Seeler, Deslauriers, Hathaway, and Laughton playing now even though they will be irrelevant to Michkov's prime while not coming close to winning now? Or looking into possible piece is that will be relevant?

 

[deadhead]

If one of those prospects was "relevant," they'd be dominating the AHL.
Name all the prospects who were so-so in Lehigh who then became good NHL starters.

None of the current prospects who have been "blocked" have stood out at Lehigh.
Lycksell was the best last season, 38g 10-14 24 (ES) after 53g 9-21 30.
And he's certainly in the mix in camp. Probably will come down to him and Eklind.
Attard should get a long look in camp, as will Andrae.
But I've seen all three and none look good enough to clear out a veteran and give them a top 9/top 5 starting spot.

No one else stands out from last season, Tuomaala, Desnoyers, Avon, McDonald.
Given their age, no reason not to start them in LHV and see if they're ready to take a step up.

Players don't stay blocked for long in pro sports, if it's obvious you're a "player" teams find a place for you.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Basically it's the same story here - you want to tank.
You don't dump useful NHL players unless you want to tank.

Flyers don't want to tank, they want to rebuild - the two are not synonymous.
Rebuilding means accumulating young assets (prospects, draft picks) and not expending assets to add older veteran to patch and win now.
Guys like Hathaway and Seeler are low cost, help you win and help establish a structure in which to integrate younger players.
They're not like giving JVR or Hayes big contracts.

If the Flyers had a couple top LHDs at LHV, they probably don't resign Seeler, same with Hathaway.
But when you look at the LHV prospects, none are NHL ready, none jump out at you.
They'll get opportunities during the season, but it's up to them to take advantage of them.

My bet would be on Desnoyers (22), Andrae (22), McDonald (22) followed by Rizzo (23), Avon (21), Tuomaala (21), Gendron (21). But I'm not counting on them in October, if ever.

Lycksell (25), Eklind (26), Abols (29), Attard (25), Ginning (25) are at an age when it's "do or die."

The prospects they'll make room for are players like Bonk and Luchanko.
Bump if he takes it up a notch this year. Same with Barkey.
The top picks this summer and so on.

But really, people complaining that Ginning (universally denigrated by the same people) isn't getting a chance to play full-time because they resigned Seeler? Come on, man!

That is just not true. You can find a Seeler and GH for 1 year deals. Not 3 or 4. You can get a stop gap vet instead of an 8 year deal for a gy who will be on the downside if/when the Flyers ever contend.

All 3 will never get a valid shot to crack the lineup. You know this.

So, you admit the Flyers are not that good at drafting/development?

 

[blackjackmulligan]

If one of those prospects was "relevant," they'd be dominating the AHL.
Name all the prospects who were so-so in Lehigh who then became good NHL starters.

None of the current prospects who have been "blocked" have stood out at Lehigh.
Lycksell was the best last season, 38g 10-14 24 (ES) after 53g 9-21 30.
And he's certainly in the mix in camp. Probably will come down to him and Eklind.
Attard should get a long look in camp, as will Andrae.
But I've seen all three and none look good enough to clear out a veteran and give them a top 9/top 5 starting spot.

No one else stands out from last season, Tuomaala, Desnoyers, Avon, McDonald.
Given their age, no reason not to start them in LHV and see if they're ready to take a step up.

Players don't stay blocked for long in pro sports, if it's obvious you're a "player" teams find a place for you.

Not true at all. They need the opportunity at the NHL level over an extended period to see what they can or cant do. Roster is 99.9% set if no injuires.

Since the goal is the playoffs the Flyers will not provide one. I can tell you this though they do not think Ollie is an everyday NHL player. View him as strictly depth.

 

[Boocowski]

That is just not true. You can find a Seeler and GH for 1 year deals. Not 3 or 4. You can get a stop gap vet instead of an 8 year deal for a gy who will be on the downside if/when the Flyers ever contend.

All 3 will never get a valid shot to crack the lineup. You know this.

So, you admit the Flyers are not that good at drafting/development?

maybe, but if Michkov is a Crosby/Ovi type superstar all that goes out the window. You don't get one of those very often and when you do everything else is much easier and lots of your smaller mistakes fall by the wayside.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

maybe, but if Michkov is a Crosby/Ovi type superstar all that goes out the window. You don't get one of those very often and when you do everything else is much easier and lots of your smaller mistakes fall by the wayside.

No it doesn't.

 

[Mickey the mouse]

If one of those prospects was "relevant," they'd be dominating the AHL.
Name all the prospects who were so-so in Lehigh who then became good NHL starters.

None of the current prospects who have been "blocked" have stood out at Lehigh.
Lycksell was the best last season, 38g 10-14 24 (ES) after 53g 9-21 30.
And he's certainly in the mix in camp. Probably will come down to him and Eklind.
Attard should get a long look in camp, as will Andrae.
But I've seen all three and none look good enough to clear out a veteran and give them a top 9/top 5 starting spot.

No one else stands out from last season, Tuomaala, Desnoyers, Avon, McDonald.
Given their age, no reason not to start them in LHV and see if they're ready to take a step up.

Players don't stay blocked for long in pro sports, if it's obvious you're a "player" teams find a place for you.

What is your infatuation with Attard ?

He's a 6'2 200+ guy who thinks he's Erik Karlson and who isn't very good at playing Defense

He's also on a 1 way contract paying him 925k this year ( great deal for him personally ), so very little chance he gets picked up off waivers

 

[freakydallas13]

Basically it's the same story here - you want to tank.
You don't dump useful NHL players unless you want to tank.

Citation needed. Also a strawman argument.

Flyers don't want to tank, they want to rebuild

Citation needed. I can provide counter examples.

Rebuilding means accumulating young assets (prospects, draft picks) and not expending assets to add older veteran to patch and win now.

Most of us actually want this, no one is saying you have to trade every player in this org over 21 years old, we're just saying we want them to do things like package their 30 year old 4th liner for a late first (they have been given several opportunities) because they are rebuilding.

I stopped reading after that point. Honestly don't have the energy to fact check the rest of your post.

For there being no point crying over spilled milk, there is certainly a lot of time spent sobbing about Hextall's dairy issues while watching the water pass blissfully under Fletcher's and Briere's bridge.

Tbf to Dead, I don't think he really spends much time complaining about Hextall. That honorific belongs to a different poster.

 

[freakydallas13]

If one of those prospects was "relevant," they'd be dominating the AHL.
Name all the prospects who were so-so in Lehigh who then became good NHL starters.

None of the current prospects who have been "blocked" have stood out at Lehigh.

I'm glad we agree the Flyers prospect pool as actually quite horrid after MM.

 

[renberg]

The Hathaway contract doesn’t bother me. He’s a 4th liner who can grind away in that place. Two year deal could be a plus at TDL. Acquiring team is getting more than a ninety day rental.
The deals that bug me are Delo, Ristolainen, and Laughton. They’re passed their shelf life and are in the way going forward. Even Seeler can be moved. If a good club wanted him and he saw a shot for the POs, he’d waive to go there. If Briere wants to be creative, he can get rid of all of these guys. Might need to eat some money with one player but be sensible with the returns for others.

 

[trostol]

Kinda hard to be relevant and stand out when you play a dull boring style of hockey

 

[LegionOfGloom]

I'm glad we agree the Flyers prospect pool as actually quite horrid after MM.

Yeah, honestly I'm less concerned that there are no spots on the big club for prospects as I am that a supposed rebuilding team doesn't really have any prospects.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Wait till Hathaway, Cates and Laughton play over Michkov when the Flyers are trailing by a goal with a minute or less left. Or the asshat puts 2 of those plugs with Michkov. Because we still have to be safe.

 

[deadhead]

The Hathaway contract doesn’t bother me. He’s a 4th liner who can grind away in that place. Two year deal could be a plus at TDL. Acquiring team is getting more than a ninety day rental.
The deals that bug me are Delo, Ristolainen, and Laughton. They’re passed their shelf life and are in the way going forward. Even Seeler can be moved. If a good club wanted him and he saw a shot for the POs, he’d waive to go there. If Briere wants to be creative, he can get rid of all of these guys. Might need to eat some money with one player but be sensible with the returns for others.

Deslauriers is on his way out, only played half the games the second half and less than 7 minutes a game, in favor of mostly Lycksell.

Risto, Briere is stuck with that contract, only way to move him is hope he continues to improve, he's a solid 3RHD who is overpaid, but if he continues to improve his defense, playoff GMs love big, physical RHDs for the playoffs. Might have to take a contract back.

I think Laughton is gone next year if Luchanko is ready/Rizzo shows he's a NHL caliber center. Right now they don't have a viable alternative in the organization.

Seeler has two years of protection, after that, I think he's gone if they find/develop a LHD to replace him. His salary makes him easy to move as a veteran 3LHD. He's a great shot blocker and that has value to some teams.

The best prospects are a year or two away, Luchanko and Bonk possibly next season, Bump, Barkey, Sotheran, etc. in two to three years, 2025 1st rd picks in two to four years. By the time these guys arrive, Flyers will have core of players from 24-27 years old and will phase out most veterans.

 

[Beef Invictus]

If one of those prospects was "relevant," they'd be dominating the AHL.
Name all the prospects who were so-so in Lehigh who then became good NHL starters.

None of the current prospects who have been "blocked" have stood out at Lehigh.
Lycksell was the best last season, 38g 10-14 24 (ES) after 53g 9-21 30.
And he's certainly in the mix in camp. Probably will come down to him and Eklind.
Attard should get a long look in camp, as will Andrae.
But I've seen all three and none look good enough to clear out a veteran and give them a top 9/top 5 starting spot.

No one else stands out from last season, Tuomaala, Desnoyers, Avon, McDonald.
Given their age, no reason not to start them in LHV and see if they're ready to take a step up.

Players don't stay blocked for long in pro sports, if it's obvious you're a "player" teams find a place for you.

This has been repeatedly debunked. For example, remember how Frost never dominated the AHL, so you used that as proof that the team was right to refuse to use him? And then it turned out he's actually a 2C.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Deslauriers is on his way out, only played half the games the second half and less than 7 minutes a game, in favor of mostly Lycksell.

Risto, Briere is stuck with that contract, only way to move him is hope he continues to improve, he's a solid 3RHD who is overpaid, but if he continues to improve his defense, playoff GMs love big, physical RHDs for the playoffs. Might have to take a contract back.

I think Laughton is gone next year if Luchanko is ready/Rizzo shows he's a NHL caliber center. Right now they don't have a viable alternative in the organization.

Seeler has two years of protection, after that, I think he's gone if they find/develop a LHD to replace him. His salary makes him easy to move as a veteran 3LHD. He's a great shot blocker and that has value to some teams.

The best prospects are a year or two away, Luchanko and Bonk possibly next season, Bump, Barkey, Sotheran, etc. in two to three years, 2025 1st rd picks in two to four years. By the time these guys arrive, Flyers will have core of players from 24-27 years old and will phase out most veterans.

Briere has spent the summer insisting Deslauriers is more important than ever.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I remember the days where we were told that there would be a revolving door for prospects, because rebuilding teams need to see what they have. And now we are hearing that they can't do that because they are rebuilding.


How does that work?

 

[Flyerfan4life]

The Hathaway contract doesn’t bother me. He’s a 4th liner who can grind away in that place. Two year deal could be a plus at TDL. Acquiring team is getting more than a ninety day rental.
The deals that bug me are Delo, Ristolainen, and Laughton. They’re passed their shelf life and are in the way going forward. Even Seeler can be moved. If a good club wanted him and he saw a shot for the POs, he’d waive to go there. If Briere wants to be creative, he can get rid of all of these guys. Might need to eat some money with one player but be sensible with the returns for others.

problem is all the players you listed are foundational pillars..

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Why the f*** is Hunter McDonald one of the players on here?

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Why the f*** is Hunter McDonald one of the players on here?

Flyers need to take stupid as shit penalties that leads to a goal against on the kill. This whole organization still things it's the 70s and think you can get away with dumb as shit stuff.

 

[Weltschmerz]

Why the f*** is Hunter McDonald one of the players on here?

Risto
Keep it simple

 

[deadhead]

This has been repeatedly debunked. For example, remember how Frost never dominated the AHL, so you used that as proof that the team was right to refuse to use him? And then it turned out he's actually a 2C.

Frost's first AHL season he was meh. But he was also 20 years old.
Second season was better and got quickly promoted - but after missing a year was 22.
Still a marginal 3C that season.

I've watched Frost for the last three years, and you can see him slowly progress, improving on defense, but still not a dominating offensive center, goes MIA for long periods, doesn't use his speed to push play on a regular basis. Better than he was, still a lot of room for improvement.

Frost is actually the poster child for slowly bringing along a player.
Hopefully he'll take another step up this season and finally become a legitimate 2C.

 

[Boocowski]

No it doesn't.

maybe not for you, but for the media and overall hockey world conversations it will.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Frost's first AHL season he was meh. But he was also 20 years old.
Second season was better and got quickly promoted - but after missing a year was 22.
Still a marginal 3C that season.

I've watched Frost for the last three years, and you can see him slowly progress, improving on defense, but still not a dominating offensive center, goes MIA for long periods, doesn't use his speed to push play on a regular basis. Better than he was, still a lot of room for improvement.

Frost is actually the poster child for slowly bringing along a player.
Hopefully he'll take another step up this season and finally become a legitimate 2C.

Per your reasoning he should never have been called up at all, because he never dominated the AHL. That's not "bringing along slowly" that's "rotting in the fridge"