2024-25 Roster Thread #1: The Beginninging

[Danko]

Man I forgot that the NHL hates Flyers fans and starts them with 3/4 10pm games to open the season every year. Hell of a way to get your fans engaged early

I think the team asks for it if i remember correctly, Team Building

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I am fine with getting the western Canada trip out of the way early. Those games had a way of killing anything good they had going before that when they had the trip in the middle of the season.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

Stupid, stupid, stupid decision.

With that said, i guess its kinda cool i'll see Michkov and Luchanko's first game in the NHL and first home game.

Are you coming up to Vancouver for the opener?

 

[Magua]

Among players with similar minutes, only Abols took less shot attempts than Luchanko at 5v5. Luchanko only took 5 attempts all-situations in 4 games, despite constant PP time and NHL top 9 linemates. I'd wager most of them were crashing the net. The inability to manufacture your own shot (against a lot of AHL competition) is usually a telltale sign you're having trouble. Those are Cates-like numbers.

If Luchanko were to stick, it's not going to be due to his offense.
It'll be b/c his IQ, maturity and speed allow him to be effective as a defense first center who can provide a little offense.
It's unlikely, but it's an easier transition than an offense first player who isn't fundamentally sound on defense.

You're trying to kill me. Sometimes I imagine you're Michael Myers and I'm Dr. Loomis. "I spent eight years trying to reach him, and then another seven trying to keep him locked up, because I realized that what was living behind that user's posts was purely and simply......contrarian."

On some level, I know what you're saying. But no 18 year old, with middling draft year production, should EVER stick in the NHL because of defense. It's a recipe for stalling future progress. But a point that needs emphasis: you have zero idea if he's good defensively at age 18 in the NHL. Assuming defensive impact for anyone is a foolhardy exercise. Let alone assuming an 18 year old is the next Patrice Bergeron. They drafted him 13th overall imaging he is a core piece. They should not give one f*** about his defense today.

 

[Sombastate]

Are you coming up to Vancouver for the opener?

I sure am. Bringing the girlfriend. May even pop the question while up there (though i think i'm more likely to do it when we go to Philly the following week).

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

I sure am. Bringing the girlfriend. May even pop the question while up there (though i think i'm more likely to do it when we go to Philly the following week).

Nice!

If you see someone in a Kimmo blouse at Rogers Arena, that'll almost certainly be me.... still waiting to see anyone else rocking a Timonen jersey.

 

[trostol]

Man I forgot that the NHL hates Flyers fans and starts them with 3/4 10pm games to open the season every year. Hell of a way to get your fans engaged early

oddly i am fine with it..due to work the late games are the only ones I get lol

 

[Beef Invictus]

If Luchanko were to stick, it's not going to be due to his offense.
It'll be b/c his IQ, maturity and speed allow him to be effective as a defense first center who can provide a little offense.
It's unlikely, but it's an easier transition than an offense first player who isn't fundamentally sound on defense.

Most top offensive players (unless we're talking Bedard level) are going to struggle to score at the NHL level at 18, and their bad defense will be quickly exposed.

The worry is even if Luchanko is advanced defensively, fear of making mistakes will make him too passive, and if encouraged to take risks, lack of experience will result in too many mistakes, making him risk adverse.

This is nightmarish

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's just a difficult to develop offence in the NHL at 18 as it is defence. I'd argue it's harder.

Look at Cates. 25 years old and still a 4th liner offensively. If offence is so much easier to figure out, why are the Flyers so inept at it?

If anything, defense is easier to figure out. Get in the way and work hard, and you can mask a lot of sins. No amount of working hard is going to generate skill, or have you suddenly figure out how to make space for yourself and others.

We've seen plenty of scoring forwards learn how to also be good at defense. How many defensive forwards have learned how to score?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

If defensive players have an easier transition for merit-based reasons, why don't any defensive specialists go straight to the NHL?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I actually don’t disagree with the logic but Charlie was saying weeks ago the Flyers didn’t like the 9 game trial because what is 9 games going to really tell you that you didn’t already know? The second part was once the kid has a taste of the NHL & all that comes with it on/off the ice (the best league in the world, the paychecks, the big cities, the luxury travel/stay, etc.). you’re setting a major disappointment when you pull the plug on that.

I guess so much for that.

 

[deadhead]

If defensive players have an easier transition for merit-based reasons, why don't any defensive specialists go straight to the NHL?

There are few talented defensive specialists at lower levels.
Because if they have real talent, they are usually pushed into a high minute offensive role.

I actually don’t disagree with the logic but Charlie was saying weeks ago the Flyers didn’t like the 9 game trial because what is 9 games going to really tell you that you didn’t already know? The second part was once the kid has a taste of the NHL & all that comes with it on/off the ice (the best league in the world, the paychecks, the big cities, the luxury travel/stay, etc.). you’re setting a major disappointment when you pull the plug on that.

I guess so much for that.

He's 18. He'll have great memories, a $100K in his pocket and the knowledge that he's close to a slam dunk next season to start.

So I doubt he'll be that disappointed if he's sent down.

 

[freakydallas13]

If anything, defense is easier to figure out. Get in the way and work hard, and you can mask a lot of sins. No amount of working hard is going to generate skill, or have you suddenly figure out how to make space for yourself and others.

We've seen plenty of scoring forwards learn how to also be good at defense. How many defensive forwards have learned how to score?

Do we have a single example of a player the Flyers took from "stone hands but rock solid defensively" and instilled offensive production in him at the expense of defence? I honestly can't think of a single one, but I can come up with about a dozen examples of them doing the reverse (they love turning scorers into grinders).

 

[Starat327]

Do we have a single example of a player the Flyers took from "stone hands but rock solid defensively" and instilled offensive production in him at the expense of defence? I honestly can't think of a single one, but I can come up with about a dozen examples of them doing the reverse (they love turning scorers into grinders).

Better than Shayne Gostisbehere, Post Tahoe Robert Hagg

 

[freakydallas13]

He's 18. He'll have great memories, a $100K in his pocket and the knowledge that he's close to a slam dunk next season to start.

I'm so glad this team's path to success is "whatever gives 18 year old the greatest memories". Surely this is the way to a Stanley Cup.

Side note, forget the entire "Luchanko is sticking because he is amazing at defence argument" I think is stupid, what have you seen to suggest he actually is a defensive wizard? Eye test? Numbers? Because I have to be honest, I don't quite see the same Bergeron-esque defensive wizard you keep claiming him to be.

 

[Sombastate]

Nice!

If you see someone in a Kimmo blouse at Rogers Arena, that'll almost certainly be me.... still waiting to see anyone else rocking a Timonen jersey.

"hello sir, are you canadian Flyer 88?"

I'll be wearing a Michkov jersey, and shepherding a german woman who is out of my league. Not sure how many ugly Flyer fans there are with german women in Vancouver, so not sure if this helps

 

[deadhead]

I'm so glad this team's path to success is "whatever gives 18 year old the greatest memories". Surely this is the way to a Stanley Cup.

Side not, forget the entire "Luchanko is sticking because he is amazing at defence argument" I think is stupid, what have you seen to suggest he actually is a defensive wizard? Eye test? Numbers? Because I have to be honest, I don't quite see the same Bergeron-esque defensive wizard you keep claiming him to be.

Exaggeration much?
He's fundamentally sound and has elite speed.
So he's unlikely to be a defensive liability.
All that means if he struggles offensively, he's not a huge liability, leaking goals.

And he certainly doesn't have stone hands (now Poehling . . .) he's a good passer, his shot is undeveloped at this point.

I'd still be surprised if he sticks, I expect against real competition his inexperience will show.
But it'll resolve itself, if he's overmatched it's an easy decision.

"hello sir, are you canadian Flyer 88?"

I'll be wearing a Michkov jersey, and shepherding a german woman who is out of my league. Not sure how many ugly Flyer fans there are with german women in Vancouver, so not sure if this helps

German is pretty generic.
Is she "beer garden waitress" German?
Or Berlin underground German?

 

[Sombastate]

German is pretty generic.
Is she "beer garden waitress" German?
Or Berlin underground German?

She's "Don't piss her off" German. Happy wife, happy life turns into "Happy wife, life" - German.

And can't wait to lock her down.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

There are few talented defensive specialists at lower levels.
Because if they have real talent, they are usually pushed into a high minute offensive role.

Please remember we had this discussion when they draft another Jack Berglund or Hunter McDonald.

 

[DAVIDE1333]

I am fine with getting the western Canada trip out of the way early. Those games had a way of killing anything good they had going before that when they had the trip in the middle of the season.

I would like to know why they give the Flyers and opener in Vancouver then Calgary the next night. Why not a couple days off before Calgary or Calgary/Edmonton for game one and the other city the next night?

 

[freakydallas13]

Exaggeration much?
He's fundamentally sound and has elite speed.
So he's unlikely to be a defensive liability.
All that means if he struggles offensively, he's not a huge liability, leaking goals.

And he certainly doesn't have stone hands (now Poehling . . .) he's a good passer, his shot is undeveloped at this point.

I'd still be surprised if he sticks, I expect against real competition his inexperience will show.
But it'll resolve itself, if he's overmatched it's an easy decision.

So the Flyers are keeping an 18 year old with underwhelming offence on the team not because he's amazing defensively, but because he's fast and unlikely to be a defensive liability? That's it? That describes like 30-40% of the forwards in any given 1st round of any given year.

Congrats, we have another Justin Baily. So glad they are foregoing CHL development for this.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

 

[trostol]

Exaggeration much?
He's fundamentally sound and has elite speed.
So he's unlikely to be a defensive liability.
All that means if he struggles offensively, he's not a huge liability, leaking goals.

And he certainly doesn't have stone hands (now Poehling . . .) he's a good passer, his shot is undeveloped at this point.

I'd still be surprised if he sticks, I expect against real competition his inexperience will show.
But it'll resolve itself, if he's overmatched it's an easy decision.


German is pretty generic.
Is she "beer garden waitress" German?
Or Berlin underground German?

and you got all that from a couple of pre-season games and camp? dude you shoulda totally been a scout

 

[Starat327]

I feel like we went from " no way he sticks" to " defensively elite and won't be a liability" really fast.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I feel like we went from " no way he sticks" to " defensively elite and won't be a liability" really fast.

Lightning McQueen would be proud of this speed.