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2024-25 Roster Thread #1: The Beginninging

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Every front office in the league has an app - or system - program - database - whatever you want to call it - that essentially is an assigned value system for assets, players, prospects.

It's actually great that the Flyers have that. What's not great is the value they had for Tony D -and then the GM thinking they should pull the trigger on that deal, and then obviously we know how they internally valued Gostisbehere, and then the subsequent Risto deal.
 
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usahockey22flyers said:
Every front office in the league has an app - or system - program - database - whatever you want to call it - that essentially is an assigned value system for assets, players, prospects.

It's actually great that the Flyers have that. What's not great is the value they had for Tony D -and then the GM thinking they should pull the trigger on that deal, and then obviously we know how they internally valued Gostisbehere, and then the subsequent Risto deal.
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Ghost was about AV, not value. AV wanted Voracek and Ghost gone.

Risto was CF, like many GMs he fell in love with a physical RHD (Zito traded a 1st and 4th to rent Chiarot, who then was signed by Yzerman for 4x4.75 at 32, TB traded a 1st, 3rd & 4th to rent Savard).

TDA was worth a gamble, but not a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and a 2x9 contract gamble coming off one good season in Carolina. More like an Erik Gustaffson gamble.
 
No issue with Fletcher or any GM using an app like that. The issue I had was he used it as an excuse & seemingly didn’t understand the league in general doesn’t adhere to those valuations. You take those evaluations & leverage against the market perception to find undervalued players while avoiding overvalued players.

Hell your own organization didn’t really use JvR like that evaluation said.
 
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One bad move followed by another then another.
Tampa and Florida trades were for last or close to first rounders. Flyers gave up the 13th for a guy they had to work on for 2 years to fix although he got a nice contract extension. They also each won a cup and are still highly competitive. The Flyers are well you know at least 3 years away.
 
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Most trades are for late 1st rd picks, b/c the teams buying players tend to be playoff teams.
Flyers got lucky with the Schenn trade when St Louis had an off year and they got to pick #14.

Maybe they'll get lucky this year with Edmonton or Colorado, both flawed teams that should make the playoffs, but if McDavid's ankle bothers him all year or Colorado can't find a goaltender . . .
 
I was listening to a recap of the game from Charlie O, where he said the Flyers were getting chances, but they just were not converting. While I didn't agree, I couldn't come up with a straight forward way to review offense specific TOI or numbers to refuse that. Then I thought I could use NST and Edge data to figure out TOI in offensive zone... With that number, I could develop rate data using offensive-zone TOI. I also use the assumption that shots taken from outside of the offensive zone would not significantly impact the dataset...One could scrub that out, but I don't have the means or the time to do it....Anyways, here are some interesting notes.

- The Flyers are 23rd in total offensive zone time, and 26th in offensive zone time per game (at ES),

- The Flyers are 27th in total shot attempts (corsi) per 60 mins of offensive zone time (at ES),

- The Flyers are 31st in expected goals per 60 mins of offensive zone time (at ES)

- The Flyers are 28th in HDCF per 60 mins of offensive zone time (at ES),

- The Flyers are 30th in goals score per 60 mins of offensive zone time (at ES).

Basically, the Flyers are not spending lots of time in the offensive zone, and when they are in the offensive zone, they are not generating much. This analysis did some highlight some cool trends tho.. For example, the Sharks and the Ducks (and lesser extent Montreal) are not spending lots of time in the OZ, but they are getting some quality chances once they get into the zone.
 
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VladDrag said:
I was listening to a recap of the game from Charlie O, where he said the Flyers were getting chances, but they just were not converting. While I didn't agree, I couldn't come up with a straight forward way to review offense specific TOI or numbers to refuse that. Then I thought I could use NST and Edge data to figure out TOI in offensive zone... With that number, I could develop rate data using offensive-zone TOI. I also use the assumption that shots taken from outside of the offensive zone would not significantly impact the dataset...One could scrub that out, but I don't have the means or the time to do it....Anyways, here are some interesting notes.

- The Flyers are 23rd in total offensive zone time, and 26th in offensive zone time per game (at ES),

- The Flyers are 27th in total shot attempts (corsi) per 60 mins of offensive zone time (at ES),

- The Flyers are 31st in expected goals per 60 mins of offensive zone time (at ES)

- The Flyers are 28th in HDCF per 60 mins of offensive zone time (at ES),

- The Flyers are 30th in goals score per 60 mins of offensive zone time (at ES).

Basically, the Flyers are not spending lots of time in the offensive zone, and when they are in the offensive zone, they are not generating much. This analysis did some highlight some cool trends tho.. For example, the Sharks and the Ducks (and lesser extent Montreal) are not spending lots of time in the OZ, but they are getting some quality chances once they get into the zone.
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Torts dream team..
 
VladDrag said:
I was listening to a recap of the game from Charlie O, where he said the Flyers were getting chances, but they just were not converting. While I didn't agree, I couldn't come up with a straight forward way to review offense specific TOI or numbers to refuse that. Then I thought I could use NST and Edge data to figure out TOI in offensive zone... With that number, I could develop rate data using offensive-zone TOI. I also use the assumption that shots taken from outside of the offensive zone would not significantly impact the dataset...One could scrub that out, but I don't have the means or the time to do it....Anyways, here are some interesting notes.

- The Flyers are 23rd in total offensive zone time, and 26th in offensive zone time per game (at ES),

- The Flyers are 27th in total shot attempts (corsi) per 60 mins of offensive zone time (at ES),

- The Flyers are 31st in expected goals per 60 mins of offensive zone time (at ES)

- The Flyers are 28th in HDCF per 60 mins of offensive zone time (at ES),

- The Flyers are 30th in goals score per 60 mins of offensive zone time (at ES).

Basically, the Flyers are not spending lots of time in the offensive zone, and when they are in the offensive zone, they are not generating much. This analysis did some highlight some cool trends tho.. For example, the Sharks and the Ducks (and lesser extent Montreal) are not spending lots of time in the OZ, but they are getting some quality chances once they get into the zone.
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Question is being in or near the bottom of every offensive category in the league a good thing or a bad thing?
 
Given it's the same coach as last season, the problem is probably the players starting the season in a funk. We're talking SSS, come back in January.

They may just need a few games against teams that don't have a physical forecheck to break out of this pattern.
 
deadhead said:
Given it's the same coach as last season, the problem is probably the players starting the season in a funk. We're talking SSS, come back in January.

They may just need a few games against teams that don't have a physical forecheck to break out of this pattern.
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I don’t really know, I’d agree that the players haven’t played very well tho. But I also don’t like the choices that the coaching staff makes, either. The post wasn't really about assigning blame. It was more an evaluation of how they have performed in when the puck is in the offensive zone to date. Also agree things can, and probably will, change by the end of the year.
 
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VladDrag said:
I don’t really know, I’d agree that the players haven’t played very well tho. But I also don’t like the choices that the coaching staff makes, either. The post wasn't really about assigning blame. It was more an evaluation of how they have performed in when the puck is in the offensive zone to date. Also agree things can, and probably will, change by the end of the year.
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I mean we know it's not a good team, but most of the players have track records that say they can play much better, and it's not like there's a new scheme.

So I see it as one of those stretches team go through every season, this one just encompasses the start of the season.

I mean Frost may be overrated around here but he's not a zero goal scorer either.
I think putting Tippett - Frost - TK back is probably the right move, they played well together last season. Just throw them out there and tell them to stop thinking and skate.
 
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Not that I think/thought it was sustainable long term but Walker did ultimately play like top ten defensemen overall in the league last year on both sides of the puck too.

Now that’s not me saying they should have brought him back or anything. But that was one key element (goaltending was another that’s continuing into this year as well) you’ve had have trouble replicating since then.

I don’t think Walker himself would have replicated it but again it’s something you had going for you that was really good for you & now it’s gone. Drysdale is one of the replacements & he’s pretty much on the opposite end of that spectrum.
 
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deadhead said:
Ellis visited Lourdes?

Hopefully, York is getting close to returning.
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TLY asked in the comments if they are typically allowed to watch players recovering from injury practice and Jordan said yes, so it wouldn't make sense if it was York
 
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