2024-25 Roster…too soon?

[WarriorofTime]

And some of our guys are going to be total busts too. Can’t not spend money because we think every first and second round draft pick is going to be a home run.

If you end up with too much talent then that’s an amazing problem to have and easy to solve. Also gives you trade bait for playoff runs.

You can spend money, you just have to realize the timeline of a potential winning main core of players is going to be players born 01 or later. So trying to artificially jam in a new, older core piece and just hope he ages like Panarin doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[GIADF]

You can spend money, you just have to realize the timeline of a potential winning main core of players is going to be players born 01 or later. So trying to artificially jam in a new, older core piece and just hope he ages like Panarin doesn't make much sense to me.

Not trying to suggest they should be competing for a WC or anything, just that they shouldn’t be bottom 5 for a 4th straight year.

I would hope for closer to bottom 8-12 league wide.

If Bedard is the players he’s expected to be at a certain point he needs to do the heavy lifting to get us out the bottom of the bottom. Not to mention the other young guys who are now starting to get ready to make an impact.

 

[Hawkaholic]

I will be disappointed if they are still a bottom 5 team for the 2026 draft. They won’t really lose anyone of significant value for next season and will have a few bucks to spend.

Then ideally Korchinski, Nazar, and Allan take on full time roles.

May also have a top 3 pick to jump right into the mix.

I’m not going to count on Levshunov playing NHL minutes next year but I don’t think it’s that crazy of an idea if he plays well in Rockford this year. I’d bet he would be better than Brodie, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s best for his development and something they can or will do.

But more importantly than all of that it’s entirely possible we have a new coaching staff and just about anyone would be better.

I wouldn't be so sure of that.

 

[BHawk21]

You can spend money, you just have to realize the timeline of a potential winning main core of players is going to be players born 01 or later. So trying to artificially jam in a new, older core piece and just hope he ages like Panarin doesn't make much sense to me.

you have to realize Marner can be very good for another 7 years. You keep saying artificially I am not sure why.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Tavares signed a 7 year, $11m AAV deal in 2018/19. The next year Marner signed a 6 year, $10.9m AAV deal and Matthews signed a 5 year, $11.6m AAV deal. The UFA contract for Tavares set the tone for the other guys.

True we don't have a cap problem or 3 major RFA's to sign after our big UFA contract but that doesn't mean we need to make things more difficult down the road. Imagine if Toronto had not gone out and chased that big free agent? Their RFA's would have lower AAV's and they would've had a lot more cap space going forward to balance out their roster. Instead they're always up against the cap solving major leaks in their team by putting duct tape on it with bargain bin players and guys like 42 year old Joe Thornton.

If Marner comes in wanting $14m as a UFA and we give it to him then Bedard could/would want that or more. That sets the tone for each and every one of our RFAs going forward and while none of them are at Bedard's level it could raise their contract asks and dwindle away our abundant cap space.

Bedard is eligible to sign his extension on 7/1/2025. I would expect that Kyle would lock him up before making any major UFA signings.

And I agree that MM's tendency to come up small come P/O time is going to limit his value. I certainly wouldn't want to pay him what he's going to get.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

you have to realize Marner can be very good for another 7 years. You keep saying artificially I am not sure why.

Agree that Marner could be "very good" for another 7 years. He could also continue to come up small when it matters, and then have his play fall off in 4 years where the last 3 years are an anchor.

For whatever reason - the Leafs are a disaster in the play-off's, and Mitch is a key part of that organization. It should also be noted that the Leafs play-off failures are more due to lack of offense more so than goaltending or team defense, and both MM and Auston Matthew have significantly underperformed.

If I were Kyle - I'd be REALLY hesitent to put all my eggs in the Mitch Marner basket.

 

[WarriorofTime]

you have to realize Marner can be very good for another 7 years. You keep saying artificially I am not sure why.

I'm not sure what's so confusing about "artificially", it just means you raised yourself in the standings but not due to your draft/prospect growth.

Sure Marner may be good for all 7 years, but you can also just make a play for someone else when you are actually are closer to being a guy away from being more competitive.

 

[BHawk21]

I'm not sure what's so confusing about "artificially", it just means you raised yourself in the standings but not due to your draft/prospect growth.

Sure Marner may be good for all 7 years, but you can also just make a play for someone else when you are actually are closer to being a guy away from being more competitive.

I understand what you are trying to say but I dont think you know what artificially means.

 

[BHawk21]

The team has to start getting better to start being a contender. Once they start to become better you will not get those high end draft picks. The team in theory should start to get better as soon as next year.

We have a D core then should be set for the future. Rinzel Vlasic Korchinski Levshunov EDM Jones Kaiser Allan.

The players you need to win will need to be fowards. Right now you have Bedard Teuvo maybe Bertuzzi possible top 6. We will have 2025 pick this year and Nazar hopefully joining in the next 2 years.

I understand if you dont like Marner and want someone different through trade but after this season its time to aquire elite skill.

Kyle Connor Brady Tkachuk Mitch Marner Mikko Rantanen Matthew Barzal

 

[WarriorofTime]

I understand what you are trying to say but I dont think you know what artificially means.

It’s a term we use in business all the time. Artificial vs. organic growth

 

[BHawk21]

It’s a term we use in business all the time. Artificial vs. organic growth

"I'd like for the Hawks to get better artificially"

ok you edited. and then added organic growth.

but in hockey signing a free agent isnt articifical. I disagree with that.

 

[WarriorofTime]

"I'd like for the Hawks to get better artificially"

I said I'd like for them to get better organically

 

[Hawkaholic]

I said I'd like for them to get better organically

It's pretty obvious what you mean, BHawk just likes to argue.

 

[x Tame Impala]

The team has to start getting better to start being a contender. Once they start to become better you will not get those high end draft picks. The team in theory should start to get better as soon as next year.

We have a D core then should be set for the future. Rinzel Vlasic Korchinski Levshunov EDM Jones Kaiser Allan.

The players you need to win will need to be fowards. Right now you have Bedard Teuvo maybe Bertuzzi possible top 6. We will have 2025 pick this year and Nazar hopefully joining in the next 2 years.

I understand if you dont like Marner and want someone different through trade but after this season its time to aquire elite skill.

Kyle Connor Brady Tkachuk Mitch Marner Mikko Rantanen Matthew Barzal

That’s all well and good but how much AAV are you giving Marner over 7 years with a full MMC?

This is his last huge payout and his regular season stats are going to make him worth a ton of money. How high would you go?

 

[Hawkaholic]

That’s all well and good but how much AAV are you giving Marner over 7 years with a full MMC?

This is his last huge payout and his regular season stats are going to make him worth a ton of money. How high would you go?

9.5mil

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

That’s all well and good but how much AAV are you giving Marner over 7 years with a full MMC?

This is his last huge payout and his regular season stats are going to make him worth a ton of money. How high would you go?

First - I like MM's game. An elite playmaking winger who kills penalties and has a strong 2 way game is a guy that I'd love to add.

With that said, in a world where Draisatl was worth $14M for turning his already amazing game up by 50% in the P/O's, I'm not paying a playmaking winger what Mitch is currently making. To justify that type of salary - you have to drive your own line.

 

[Malaka]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5864035/2024/10/24/nhl-front-office-rankings-quotes/?source=user_shared_article

Execs/GM’s rank the best front offices… 0 votes for the hawks.

 

[BHawk21]

I said I'd like for them to get better organically

no you didnt I copy pasted that. maybe thats what you meant and edited it.

is this team now artificial because we paid tuevo and bertuzzi?

 

[BHawk21]

That’s all well and good but how much AAV are you giving Marner over 7 years with a full MMC?

This is his last huge payout and his regular season stats are going to make him worth a ton of money. How high would you go?

I am thinking he will get around 12-12.5. 1/2 or 1 million more then Pettersson and Pasta

 

[WarriorofTime]

no you didnt I copy pasted that. maybe thats what you meant and edited it.

is this team now artificial because we paid tuevo and bertuzzi?

I edited it one minute after posting because it was missing a couple words, notice how the bottom doesn't say "last edited: [x]".. not sure why you're so hung up on this

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Davidson needs to aggressively try to trade Murphy now!

Cant afford to wait and have him get hurt

 

[BHawk21]

I edited it one minute after posting because it was missing a couple words, notice how the bottom doesn't say "last edited: [x]".. not sure why you're so hung up on this

Im not hung up on it. I responded to what you said and now its completely different. I disagree with the notion that adding an elite free agent is bad for the growth of the team.

 

[BHawk21]

Necas is so good, one of the best coaches in the league doesn't want him on PP1, and doesn't want him on his top line. And this is a team with no elite wingers.

He is one of the worst forwards on his team in +/-, xGF%, HDCF%, while getting some of the most offensive zone starts (60%).

4 point game last night up to 15 points in 9 games on the season.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Im not hung up on it. I responded to what you said and now its completely different. I disagree with the notion that adding an elite free agent is bad for the growth of the team.

It was edited before you even made your post, sorry you missed it. I've explained my reasons for thinking the way I do, I don't particularly care for the team trying to pull up too soon, getting to 7th/8th from the bottom for a couple years, then discover they're still shy in a lot of areas in the prospect department and be right back in a couple years, as I think that's the worst case scenario as far as messing up/ensuring you have no timetable instead of a more distant one.

 

[BHawk21]

It was edited before you even made your post, sorry you missed it. I've explained my reasons for thinking the way I do, I don't particularly care for the team trying to pull up too soon, getting to 7th/8th from the bottom for a couple years, then discover they're still shy in a lot of areas in the prospect department and be right back in a couple years, as I think that's the worst case scenario as far as messing up/ensuring you have no timetable instead of a more distant one.

it wasnt. I literally said 5 min after you posted "Im not sure you worded that correctly" and it was like that for a day until I copy pasted it.

This is how I understand your plan. They finish low this year and add a top prospect. Next year they add Nazar Korchinki maybe Levshunov and then middling UFAs. They may finish 7-12 next year? The year after they add some additional talent and finish about the same hopefully a little higher.

Where does the elite offensive talent come. What if the top 5 pick doesnt end up as an elite talent. This is the bottoming out point. We should not draft this high again after this year because prospects are coming.