Blue Jays Discussion: 2024-25 Off-season: The free agent watch begins (and sometimes old baseball radio broadcasts)

[Bjindaho]

Knowing this management they will keep straw up because he has a couple of hita in the spring and the other guys have options. But that is not thw right decision.

One thing that we should all continue watching on the Straw front...

He's put less balls on the ground this spring that at any point ever (only 20 PA though) and is hitting less balls the other way. With that kind of hitting profile and his ~9%BB rate, he could actually be a decent hitter.

 

[Discoverer]

One thing that we should all continue watching on the Straw front...

He's put less balls on the ground this spring that at any point ever (only 20 PA though) and is hitting less balls the other way. With that kind of hitting profile and his ~9%BB rate, he could actually be a decent hitter.

Straw is a complete disaster on flyballs, though. Unless he's suddenly discovered some previously untapped power or found a way to sustain an elite linedrive rate, putting the ball in the air is only going to make him worse.

 

[Bjindaho]

Straw is a complete disaster on flyballs, though. Unless he's suddenly discovered some previously untapped power or found a way to sustain an elite linedrive rate, putting the ball in the air is only going to make him worse.

His hit profile is very similar to Kirk's (for better and worse).

Anything to the right side is going to be problematic (58 career wRC+ to the opposite field). More balls from left field foul line to right field gap means more grounders that could be beaten out, more gappers, and the possibility of some level of power.

His flyball rate is in line with his career numbers, but he's hit more liners. Any uptick from grounder to liner would be a positive.

 

[phillipmike]

Reason why i dont think Straw makes it is because he isnt on the 40 man roster. We would have to lose someone to get him on. But it could be an easy Macko or Swanson to the 60 man IL but you probably want or add more arms. Another reason why i dont think they go that route is because it looks Varsho wont miss time or misses little time. So you are better off with Lukes or Loperfido.

Also forgot to note in my Yankee post;

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/yankees-giancarlo-stanton-says-elbow-injuries-are-severe-raises-possibility-of-season-ending-surgery/

How do you have severe elbow injuries in both elbows as a hitter. Season hasnt started yet and they may have lost their 3rd best hitter from last year in Stanton. And dont have their 3 best starters Cortes (traded), Cole (likely out for the season) and Gil (out for the first half of the season). Not mention their closer Clay Holmes signed with the Mets, Kahnle went to Detroit and Weaver who was their best guy has one spring appearance with a 27 ERA. i wonder if he is hurt too. All missing Soto leaving.

 

[Discoverer]

Reason why i dont think Straw makes it is because he isnt on the 40 man roster. We would have to lose someone to get him on. But it could be an easy Macko or Swanson to the 60 man IL but you probably want or add more arms. Another reason why i dont think they go that route is because it looks Varsho wont miss time or misses little time. So you are better off with Lukes or Loperfido.

Also forgot to note in my Yankee post;

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/yankees-giancarlo-stanton-says-elbow-injuries-are-severe-raises-possibility-of-season-ending-surgery/

How do you have severe elbow injuries in both elbows as a hitter. Season hasnt started yet and they may have lost their 3rd best hitter from last year in Stanton. And dont have their 3 best starters Cortes (traded), Cole (likely out for the season) and Gil (out for the first half of the season). Not mention their closer Clay Holmes signed with the Mets, Kahnle went to Detroit and Weaver who was their best guy has one spring appearance with a 27 ERA. i wonder if he is hurt too. All missing Soto leaving.

Manoah and Bastardo to the 60-day is an easy fix for now. But even then, Roden needs to be added if he makes it, and Yarbrough looks like he has a decent chance of making it, too.

Straw is a guy you find a spot for as a pinch-runner/defensive replacement in the playoffs when you already have a really good offense. He's not a guy you add to a roster that has a lot of younger options with higher ceilings and needs offense wherever they can get it.

 

[shaner8989]

Sounds like Swanson is donzo. Another great trade.

 

[Bjindaho]

 

[Discoverer]

Major League deal is a little surprising, but I don't mind him coming back. There goes one of those 40-man spots we were just discussing.

 

[tmlfan98]

Reason why i dont think Straw makes it is because he isnt on the 40 man roster. We would have to lose someone to get him on. But it could be an easy Macko or Swanson to the 60 man IL but you probably want or add more arms. Another reason why i dont think they go that route is because it looks Varsho wont miss time or misses little time. So you are better off with Lukes or Loperfido.

The even bigger reason to me (someone can correct me if I'm wrong about this), is that Straw is 47 service days way from 5 years of service time, which would make him able to refuse a minor league assignment and elect free agency.

But I'm pretty sure if this were to happen, the Jays would still be on the hook for his salary, it would just become completely immovable dead salary. If they make sure Straw never reaches 5 years of service time, the option still exists to try and flip him if they want to get off his money at any point.

 

[Bjindaho]

The even bigger reason to me (someone can correct me if I'm wrong about this), is that Straw is 47 service days way from 5 years of service time, which would make him able to refuse a minor league assignment and elect free agency.

But I'm pretty sure if this were to happen, the Jays would still be on the hook for his salary, it would just become completely immovable dead salary. If they make sure Straw never reaches 5 years of service time, the option still exists to try and flip him if they want to get off his money at any point.

If he elects free agency, he gives up the money. He's also somehow not on the 40 and not required to be, so the money doesn't count for tax purposes, but the Jays are still going to see what he can do and give him a legit shot at a roster spot.

 

[tmlfan98]

If he elects free agency, he gives up the money.

Source? I looked this up, and apparently the opposite is true. The only way the Jays would be off the hook for some of his money is if another team signs him after, like what happened with Tim Mayza last season.

He's also somehow not on the 40 and not required to be, so the money doesn't count for tax purposes

I remember Shi Davidi had reported this, and he got fact checked. Dude was straight up wrong about that. IIRC I think he even edited the story to correct that error.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I am on the fire John Schneider wagon. He is a moron. Santander is a cleanup hitter, hit him cleanup. Springer in the 4 hole makes 0 sense. Plain and simple, John is a moron. But again his bosses are too.

 

[Discoverer]

Source? I looked this up, and apparently the opposite is true. The only way the Jays would be off the hook for some of his money is if another team signs him after, like what happened with Tim Mayza last season.

I remember Shi Davidi had reported this, and he got fact checked. Dude was straight up wrong about that. IIRC I think he even edited the story to correct that error.

I remember Davidi saying it, but I never saw any fact checking on it beyond people disagreeing. I looked around at the time and couldn't find any confirmation one way or the other.

Even if it is the case, though, it only pushes the odds of Straw making the team down to exactly zero. In that case, adding him would cost them more than a million dollars in luxury taxes and push them to within a few million of the second luxury tax threshold, making it more expensive to add someone later on. If he's not currently part of the calculation, they would be unbelievably stupid to add him when they have a bunch of other options anyway.

(For the record, I don't doubt that Davidi was wrong there, I just hadn't seen any confirmation of it, and the luxury tax stuff is hard to find specifics about.)

 

[Bjindaho]

Source? I looked this up, and apparently the opposite is true. The only way the Jays would be off the hook for some of his money is if another team signs him after, like what happened with Tim Mayza last season.

I remember Shi Davidi had reported this, and he got fact checked. Dude was straight up wrong about that. IIRC I think he even edited the story to correct that error.

For the first thing, I have since found sources that say that he does keep the money. That being said, the Jays don't need to waive him unless they add him to the 40 man then try to remove him (and anything under 47 days would be an option, which he can't reject).

For the second thing, MLB's calculation says "A team's Competitive Balance Tax figure is determined using the average annual value of each player's contract on the 40-man roster, plus any additional player benefits. " That would imply that until Straw touches the Jays 40-man, he doesn't count (and technically would count against Cleveland's CBT number). The second he touches, he would count and the Jays would be responsible going forward. From what I can gather, he is treated as an overpriced minor leaguer for Toronto as long as he is one.

 

[Discoverer]

For the first thing, I have since found sources that say that he does keep the money. That being said, the Jays don't need to waive him unless they add him to the 40 man then try to remove him (and anything under 47 days would be an option, which he can't reject).

For the second thing, MLB's calculation says "A team's Competitive Balance Tax figure is determined using the average annual value of each player's contract on the 40-man roster, plus any additional player benefits. " That would imply that until Straw touches the Jays 40-man, he doesn't count (and technically would count against Cleveland's CBT number). The second he touches, he would count and the Jays would be responsible going forward. From what I can gather, he is treated as an overpriced minor leaguer for Toronto as long as he is one.

But DFA'd players still count towards the tax even after they've been removed from the 40-man. I was hopeful at the time that maybe it didn't apply to the Jays since Straw was DFA'd and removed by his previous team, but I can't find anything to back that up, so it's probably safe to say he counts for the Jays.

 

[Bjindaho]

But DFA'd players still count towards the tax even after they've been removed from the 40-man. I was hopeful at the time that maybe it didn't apply to the Jays since Straw was DFA'd and removed by his previous team, but I can't find anything to back that up, so it's probably safe to say he counts for the Jays.

DFA counts towards the tax except for the part taken on by the new team. As a non-roster player, it seems that he is outside this structure unless he is added.

 

[tmlfan98]

I remember Davidi saying it, but I never saw any fact checking on it beyond people disagreeing. I looked around at the time and couldn't find any confirmation one way or the other.

Nope.

Complex Santander deal symbolic of Blue Jays' off-season

Even as conversations between the Blue Jays and Anthony Santander began in November, it took them until Monday to finalize a complicated five-year contract.

www.sportsnet.ca

This is a corrected version of the original story, which erroneously stated that Myles Straw’s salary doesn’t count against the CBT. Straw’s salary does, in fact, count against the CBT.

Davidi got bodied for trying to spread misinformation on behalf of his employers at Rogers. They tried to trick any Jays casual fan who wouldn't care to fact check and just take their word for it.

 

[tmlfan98]

For the second thing, MLB's calculation says "A team's Competitive Balance Tax figure is determined using the average annual value of each player's contract on the 40-man roster, plus any additional player benefits. " That would imply that until Straw touches the Jays 40-man, he doesn't count (and technically would count against Cleveland's CBT number). The second he touches, he would count and the Jays would be responsible going forward. From what I can gather, he is treated as an overpriced minor leaguer for Toronto as long as he is one.

This just simply is not true lol. If it were, tax spending clubs would DFA bad contracts off their 40-man all the time so they could spend more CBT money elsewhere.

For the first thing, I have since found sources that say that he does keep the money. That being said, the Jays don't need to waive him unless they add him to the 40 man then try to remove him (and anything under 47 days would be an option, which he can't reject).

I guess they technically could just roster him for the first 46 days of the season maximum, but what would even be the point of that? Those service days should just be saved in case of something like an extreme injury scenario in CF, where a bunch of the team's other options get hurt.

 

[Discoverer]

Nope.

Complex Santander deal symbolic of Blue Jays' off-season

Even as conversations between the Blue Jays and Anthony Santander began in November, it took them until Monday to finalize a complicated five-year contract.

www.sportsnet.ca

Davidi got bodied for trying to spread misinformation on behalf of his employers at Rogers. They tried to trick any Jays casual fan who wouldn't care to fact check and just take their word for it.

Thanks, I guess I bailed on looking for an answer before he corrected it.

Seems likely he just messed up and got it wrong since casual Jays fans don't give a shit about this stuff anyway.

 

[thewave]

I don't know how you guys still watch. I was a pitcher back in the day but this team is emotional damage incorporated.

 

[Bjindaho]

This just simply is not true lol. If it were, tax spending clubs would DFA bad contracts off their 40-man all the time so they could spend more CBT money elsewhere.


I guess they technically could just roster him for the first 46 days of the season maximum, but what would even be the point of that? Those service days should just be saved in case of something like an extreme injury scenario in CF, where a bunch of the team's other options get hurt.

No, you are misunderstanding.

If you DFA, he counts:
(f) Outright Assignment to a Minor League clubAny Uniform Player’s Contract that is assigned outright to aMinor League club shall be included in the Club’s Actual ClubPayroll.

The issue is that he is not on Toronto's 40 man and Toronto didn't outright him, which means that he counts against Cleveland.

 

[Discoverer]

I guess they technically could just roster him for the first 46 days of the season maximum, but what would even be the point of that? Those service days should just be saved in case of something like an extreme injury scenario in CF, where a bunch of the team's other options get hurt.

Yeah, I don't get how there should be ahy discussion around Straw making the team. If they need someone for CF, they have a veteran with a good minor league track record who hasn't really had a chance yet (Lukes), a solid all-around prospect with major league experience (Loperfido), a less-proven young guy with high upside (Clase), a young guy with basically the exact same profile as Straw (Berroa), and one of their best prospects who's absolutely dominating this spring and has been tested out in CF (Roden). Four of the five are already on the 40-man.

There's no world in which Straw should have a legitimate chance of making the team out of spring.

 

[tmlfan98]

No, you are misunderstanding.

If you DFA, he counts:
(f) Outright Assignment to a Minor League clubAny Uniform Player’s Contract that is assigned outright to aMinor League club shall be included in the Club’s Actual ClubPayroll.

The issue is that he is not on Toronto's 40 man and Toronto didn't outright him, which means that he counts against Cleveland.

I was just making a general example of how clubs could game the system if what you think is true when I said the DFA example.

Again it is you who is misunderstanding lol. It doesn't matter that Cleveland was the one who DFA him, his salary is on Toronto's luxury tax payroll, except for the small amount that Cleveland ate.

 

[tmlfan98]

Yeah, I don't get how there should be ahy discussion around Straw making the team. If they need someone for CF, they have a veteran with a good minor league track record who hasn't really had a chance yet (Lukes), a solid all-around prospect with major league experience (Loperfido), a less-proven young guy with high upside (Clase), a young guy with basically the exact same profile as Straw (Berroa), and one of their best prospects who's absolutely dominating this spring and has been tested out in CF (Roden). Four of the five are already on the 40-man.

There's no world in which Straw should have a legitimate chance of making the team out of spring.

I think there is only discussion about it because the dumbass baseball media at Sportsnet in Toronto isn't educating the fanbase (which is largely uneducated when it comes to baseball as Toronto is a puckhead town) on why the team is literally incentivized for Straw to basically never be on the 40-man.

Instead it's the opposite, with stupid misinformation still percolating that this guy's money doesn't even count. Thanks to Shi Davidi pretty much. No one thought this guy's money didn't count until Shi made that "error" in his story.

 

[MK78]

I am on the fire John Schneider wagon. He is a moron. Santander is a cleanup hitter, hit him cleanup. Springer in the 4 hole makes 0 sense. Plain and simple, John is a moron. But again his bosses are too.

Yeah if they start the season with Santander not at cleanup, that's just utter stupidity.