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Blue Jays Discussion: 2024-25 Off-season: The free agent watch begins (and sometimes old baseball radio broadcasts)

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Puckstuff said:
If you want Bo to hit with runners on, hitting him leadoff wouldn’t give him more RBI opportunities. Personally I'd want Gimenez 1st, Bo 2nd, Vlad 3rd, Santander 4th.

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The issue with Gimenez is that he doesn't walk so he doesn't get on base as much.

Wagner projects as the best leadoff candidate, but he doesn't have the track record to put him there yet (has to show his minor league patience at the MLB level). That's why Bo is the placeholder. Another thing to keep in mind is that with one more signing Wagner is a bench guy.

Clement, Gimenez and Varsho figure to be similar players from a hitting POV.

Loperfido should be the other outfielder, but he also doesn't have the MLB track record yet.
 
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Greek_physique said:
If we can find another leadoff man not named Springer or Bo, thay would be huge.

Bo batting 2nd or 3rd is so much more dangerous.
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No, just no.

Vlad needs to hit 2. He is Toronto's best hitter and needs the at-bats. After him, Santander is 3. Alonso, if signed, would be 4. Bo could be 5 in that lineup, but he should never be 2.
 
The Jays still have a collection of utility players that are all going to rotate through, I guess.

Wagner, Clement, Schneider, Barger, Loperfido, none of whom looking to be everyday position players this season especially if the Jays nab Alonso.

Guys like Lukes, Martinez and Jimenez probably starting in Buffalo and getting called up at some point too.

Heard this morning on 1050 that a deal with Scherzer is all but signed, he's just waiting on Alonso locking in as well.

If Atkins/Shapiro can go from a disastrous December and bring in Santander/Alonso/Scherzer this month, that's a pretty impressive recovery I think.

Just need to at the finishing touch and get Vladdy to commit.
 
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Bjindaho said:
The issue with Gimenez is that he doesn't walk so he doesn't get on base as much.

Wagner projects as the best leadoff candidate, but he doesn't have the track record to put him there yet (has to show his minor league patience at the MLB level). That's why Bo is the placeholder. Another thing to keep in mind is that with one more signing Wagner is a bench guy.

Clement, Gimenez and Varsho figure to be similar players from a hitting POV.

Loperfido should be the other outfielder, but he also doesn't have the MLB track record yet.
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Agree fully on Gimenez. Let him play D, hit at the bottom, run a bit.
Wagner tho. He’s a guy that is ready to integrate to the lineup, tho. No time like the present. Guy just has good a bats.
I think he should leadoff against rhp’s and then consider someone against particularly strong lefties - maybe Springer then? Even at that, his minor league splits aren’t egregious.
Clase has a good leadoff profile too, though the projections aren’t friendly to him.
Then Roden - one factor holding him back is service time, he doesn’t have to be added to the 40 man til this winter - but all the on base skills.
An interesting question is will the reins be loosened on the guys who can run?
 
Dr Pepper said:
The Jays still have a collection of utility players that are all going to rotate through, I guess.

Wagner, Clement, Schneider, Barger, Loperfido, none of whom looking to be everyday position players this season especially if the Jays nab Alonso.

Guys like Lukes, Martinez and Jimenez probably starting in Buffalo and getting called up at some point too.

Heard this morning on 1050 that a deal with Scherzer is all but signed, he's just waiting on Alonso locking in as well.

If Atkins/Shapiro can go from a disastrous December and bring in Santander/Alonso/Scherzer this month, that's a pretty impressive recovery I think.

Just need to at the finishing touch and get Vladdy to commit.
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Jimenez and Clement are out of options, so good bets to make the team.
Both can prolly be close to major league average starters, which isn’t nothing.
Lukes has done all he can at AAA and is a perfect profile to support Springer.
Wagner is projected to be 20% above average, time is now.
The rest of the guys have options, so likely start at AAA to get traction and reliable at bats - save having incredible springs.
Babe Schneider looks like the odd man out to me.
 
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phillipmike said:
I’m not expecting him to be an all star again. I’m expecting him to be given a chance to lead off again with a healthy lineup and be better than last year.

With a healthy lineup, I think he can be better than league average.

Even Steamer has him for a projected 109 wRC+ and a 2+ WAR season. I’d gladly take that and see it as a big improvement from last season.
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You need to give up this spin zone attempt on Springer phillipmike. If you're not convincing Discoverer you won't be convincing anyone on this.

Springer isn't a leadoff level hitter anymore, and will continue trending towards completely and utterly cooked as Father Time continually beats him.
 
Jays still need a bat and a depth starter but at least they got the big hitter. Nothing against Belt and 39 years old Turner but imo Santander is a big improvement over them. He fits the need of the team better. Obviously need Bo to be back to being Bo for it to work.
 
Bjindaho said:
No, just no.

Vlad needs to hit 2. He is Toronto's best hitter and needs the at-bats. After him, Santander is 3. Alonso, if signed, would be 4. Bo could be 5 in that lineup, but he should never be 2.
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If you're going purely by the (modern) book, it would be Wagner, Vlad, Bo, Santander at the top.
 
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One thing that has to be said about this offseason is that all the feedback has been based on talk of budget from Davidi and BNS.

If the budget doesn't matter:
The Horwitz/Mitchell for Gimenez/Sandlin trade is a win (Horwitz has value, but while his bat plays, it is less valuable on a team that could have Alonso and Santander).

Acquiring Straw and space for SFA is not a bad deal. If the money doesn't matter, Straw keeps Loperfido in the minors and it's free space.

These deals only look bad because we expected that adding these two changes targets. If Santander/Hoffmann/Garcia/bat?/SP?/another RP? was the offseason we were headed towards, then adding more money around that doesn't matter and you get into a situation where Gimenez as a starting 2B is objectively better than Wagner/Schneider with Horwitz barely playing and a likely trade-low candidate.

Straw is hard to swallow with constraints, but if Loperfido isn't ready, you get an experienced MLB CF with a massive hole in his swing (who actually needs to be told to pull the ball)
 
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Bjindaho said:
One thing that has to be said about this offseason is that all the feedback has been based on talk of budget from Davidi and BNS.

If the budget doesn't matter:
The Horwitz/Mitchell for Gimenez/Sandlin trade is a win (Horwitz has value, but while his bat plays, it is less valuable on a team that could have Alonso and Santander).

Acquiring Straw and space for SFA is not a bad deal. If the money doesn't matter, Straw keeps Loperfido in the minors and it's free space.

These deals only look bad because we expected that adding these two changes targets. If Santander/Hoffmann/Garcia/bat?/SP?/another RP? was the offseason we were headed towards, then adding more money around that doesn't matter and you get into a situation where Gimenez as a starting 2B is objectively better than Wagner/Schneider with Horwitz barely playing and a likely trade-low candidate.

Straw is hard to swallow with constraints, but if Loperfido isn't ready, you get an experienced MLB CF with a massive hole in his swing (who actually needs to be told to pull the ball)
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Perfectly said. Not to mention the defeatist narrative.
The reporters payroll projections made a portion of sense, but the swings the team was making at fa’s flew in the face of if, all along.
Gimenez also provides a controlled anchor up the middle, buffering against a potential loss of Bo.
Placeholders to man the bottom of the lineup enables all the near ready kids to start with predictable development time in system.
If it all goes to pot, they can sell and all those kids will be closer to ready to step in.
Still work to do of course, but that there’s still viable upgrade free agents on the market shows their reads have been fine.
 
Pedro Avila looks like he could be an interesting BP option as well. Was DFA'd by Cleveland and the dropoff in quality looks to be primarily from him throwing more 4 seamers vs 2 seamers last year (he was still a decent reliever).
 
At this point I don't expect anymore significant additions. Maybe a 4/5 type starter like Quintana or Scherzer to push Rodriguez to the pen, but that's about it. I certainly don't expect Alonso.

I'm feeling fairly confident that we'll get a Vladdy extension, though, and I think that would make this a good offseason overall.

Not adding one more bat feels like a missed opportunity, though, because I don't think they're that far back of the top AL teams.
 
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barilko05 said:
Ichiro missed unanimous selection by 1 vote. The NY writer (and I have no doubt that's who it was) should be fired ASAP. Absolutely beyond contemptible behaviour for a so called "professional sportswriter", whoever it is.
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The voter who said no was probably the same idiot who said no to Jeter.

Probably just looking for attention.
 
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Eyedea said:
I was told by BNS and Shi that there was 10m left to spend after the Gimenez trade?
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Some of us have been calling that out as BS since before the Jays spent a single dollar this offseason.

If you know how to read between the lines it was easy to see as fraudulent reporting from the start (I laid out what I thought the motive was too back around the non-tender deadline IIRC).
 
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