Blue Jays Discussion: 2024-25 Off-season: The free agent watch begins (and sometimes old baseball radio broadcasts)

[tmlfan98]

Yeah, it's completely over for Shatkins. The Myles Straw trade is going to be the dagger that ends them. Shatkins apologists literally have no defense for them anymore after this trade and are admitting defeat. Their main talking point I've seen has been: "The worst part about this trade is the Shatkins haters won."

The extra international bonus money they're left with, they won't be able to use in a meaningful way given what's left of this IFA class. So the value of the trade in a vacuum can't even be used as a talking point here (which is something Shatkins apologists usually love resorting to).

But the main aspect of why this is such an undeniable dagger, is the fact that Shatkins literally made a desperation trade to try one last time to change Sasaki's mind away from the Dodgers, and fell flat on their faces in front of the entire baseball world.

This is a front office that tries to present themselves as extremely process driven, and their apologists usually gobble that rhetoric up, maintaining unwavering faith in their process like cult members. But a desperation trade is literally anti-process in nature. So now not only is the epic failure fueling the hate of the majority of the fanbase, the Shatkins apologist minority are becoming disillusioned that Shatkins actually abandoned their beloved process.

If Ed Rogers doesn't act soon and get rid of these fools, he is going to allow Shatkins to completely evaporate the 2015 rejuvenation of the fanbase. He may not care about beating the allegations that he lowkey doesn't care about winning, but pretty soon it's going to start to affect the Jays' bottom line again, and we know he cares about that. Plus Shatkins got him to put $400M into renovating a stadium that's going to lose butts in seats because of their mismanagement of the ball club.

 

[habamillions]

What i laugh at is how inept the jays front office is. They take on the shit contract of straw for 2 mil in international money for nothing. Then right after getting the player agrees to go to them the dodger get 1.5 in international money for a minor league player.

 

[mikeyz]

Wow. Even BNS is calling out Shatkins now. That's when you know it’s bad. Lol.

 

[Jozay]

of course it’s bad. Team is already past the first cbt threshold and the roster is dog shit lol.

 

[Bjindaho]

Out of curiosity, I saw somebody mention it in the other thread. I also understand the athletics are a wild card when it comes to trades. But what would a normal package for a player like Rooker cost?

Rooker is not available. The A's and Marlins are wildcards because they have to take on salary for revenue sharing which makes them candidates for a trade like the Straw deal (only with prospects instead of Ifa space).

 

[Bjindaho]

Is 2 million in IFA money worth taking on Straw? And is there any decent international players left to sign?

The Jays had somewhere between 5-6M in commitments already for IFA and will get all those players (Christopher Polanco is the top rated).

With LA losing their top targets, this means Toronto spends more on the lower level signings (unless there is someone outside the top 2 on LA or Cleveland's list that Toronto can sign).

If Cleveland legitimately only had about 4M committed, then there's a chance you're paying the same kids more.

 

[mikeyz]

We are the laughing stock of baseball right now boys.

 

[Bjindaho]

Like I said before, ifa space can be good. Acquiring small chunks to get intriguing prospects is good (this is how we got Kirk). Acquiring larger chunks for big prospects is good (Vlad). Acquiring large chunks and having the entire top 50 committed is less good. Then again, maybe they get a few 250k-500k guys they otherwise couldn't.

 

[aingefan]

You really should move to Egypt my friend. Because no offense, but you're living in denial.


This might be the most accurate photo of the 21st century. LMFAO

The same joke the other guy made….twice as funny second time.

Doesn’t change my opinion of the off-season that that they didn’t sign Sasaki. Woulda been a coup and a real franchise changer. But they didn’t, so move along.

The off-season still isn’t complete.

 

[Hellcat]

Miles Straw has the highest fielding percentage in MLB history.

Career Leaders &amp Records for Fielding % as OF | Baseball-Reference.com

Career Fld% Leaders:1.<strong>Myles Straw</strong>/.9967/, 2.Jon Jay/.9958/, 3.Darin Erstad/.9955/, 4.Brian Downing/.9954/, 5.Billy Hamilton/.9949/, Darryl Hamilton/.9949/, Desmond Jennings/.9949/, 8.Jacoby Ellsbury/.9947/, 9.Shane Victorino/.9945/, 10.<strong>Austin Ha

www.baseball-reference.com

View attachment 962772

Austin Hays better learn Canadian.

In the video I posted, Fuzzy called him a generational fielder, I didn't see that on baseball savant, he was very very good but not generational. Thanks for posting it gives more context to Fuzzy's statement. Thanks for posting.

 

[Bjindaho]

In the video I posted, Fuzzy called him a generational fielder, I didn't see that on baseball savant, he was very very good but not generational. Thanks for posting it gives more context to Fuzzy's statement. Thanks for posting.

He's not Varsho good, but he'd be the 3rd best CF on last year's team (which could still make him a top 5 defensive CF in baseball lol)

 

[Hellcat]

Yeah, it's completely over for Shatkins. The Myles Straw trade is going to be the dagger that ends them. Shatkins apologists literally have no defense for them anymore after this trade and are admitting defeat. Their main talking point I've seen has been: "The worst part about this trade is the Shatkins haters won."

The extra international bonus money they're left with, they won't be able to use in a meaningful way given what's left of this IFA class. So the value of the trade in a vacuum can't even be used as a talking point here (which is something Shatkins apologists usually love resorting to).

But the main aspect of why this is such an undeniable dagger, is the fact that Shatkins literally made a desperation trade to try one last time to change Sasaki's mind away from the Dodgers, and fell flat on their faces in front of the entire baseball world.

This is a front office that tries to present themselves as extremely process driven, and their apologists usually gobble that rhetoric up, maintaining unwavering faith in their process like cult members. But a desperation trade is literally anti-process in nature. So now not only is the epic failure fueling the hate of the majority of the fanbase, the Shatkins apologist minority are becoming disillusioned that Shatkins actually abandoned their beloved process.

If Ed Rogers doesn't act soon and get rid of these fools, he is going to allow Shatkins to completely evaporate the 2015 rejuvenation of the fanbase. He may not care about beating the allegations that he lowkey doesn't care about winning, but pretty soon it's going to start to affect the Jays' bottom line again, and we know he cares about that. Plus Shatkins got him to put $400M into renovating a stadium that's going to lose butts in seats because of their mismanagement of the ball club.

Do Shatkins apologist actually exist at this point? I've not read anyone making excuse for these two in a long time. The results for the 2015 season are already baked in, 4th or 5th in the East. Anything Rogers does near term with Atkins is about salvaging the 2020 season and beyond.

Clearly the front office lacks the skills to close the deal and/or players just dont want to play in the Arctic (aka Toronto). Unfounded perceptions/bias of what it means to play in Toronto, the inconvenience of going through customs, the desire to play for a storied franchise, the boogie man that is playing in a different country for what ever reason and I'm sure there are more than I listed, Americans and apparently Japanese stars do not want to play in Toronto.

It's apparent to most reasonable people that building a team through Free Agency, for Toronto, is a ship that has long passed. I'm sure there are some mid and low UFA's that we can get but stars and ultra stars, that ship has left the dock. Maybe agents are using Toronto as a barging chip (I get that this last failure that was not this because of the rules), what's better than the second/third richest owner being in competition for every UFA, even if we are not, it pumps up his value. Agents are stealing Atkins lunch money virtually every big deal.

IMO this is how we right the ship:

1) Stop being chumps. Stop being in every prized UFA rumor - come out and forcefully say we are not perusing player X. Every time we are a brides maid, it hurts the teams reputation and affects the Blue Jays current players perception of where they are playing. It reduces the value of wanting to play in Toronto.

2) Rebuild - Suck up your pride. Trade anything not bolted down to the ground. Including Bo and Vlad.

3) Money, money, money. Put your money into coaches, team development and scouting. Poach as many scouts and coaches from the Dodgers org as you can. Over pay for their services, at ridiculous rates. Make Toronto a destination for leaders and knowledgeable baseball people. Make it your #1 strategy to get the best teachers / the best strategists.

4) Bye Felicia. Fire the current front office, the coaching and scouting staff. All gone, we have a terrible MLB team and we have a terrible farm system.

5) The kids are alright. Put your focus on drafting, player development and coaching, everything you got goes into drafting and development. If you cant build through the UFA market, you have to build through the farm.

6) Toronto - You Belong Here (an actual advertising campaign from the 90's). In the cities that have MLB and minor league teams, partner with the City of Toronto and Ontario tourism to promote how amazing Toronto is, what a great place to live and visit, etc. you're not talking about the Jays you are talking about the city. Possibly a few quality free agents will see this and maybe this helps correct their uneducated bias. Promote in every type of media that you can think of. Digital, print, where ever.

​

 

[Bjindaho]

Do Shatkins apologist actually exist at this point? I've not read anyone making excuse for these two in a log time.

Clearly either the front office lacks the skills to close the deal or players just dont want to play in the Arctic (aka Toronto). Unfounded perceptions/bias of what it means to play in Toronto, the inconvenience of going through customs, the desire to play for a storied franchise, the boogie man that is playing in a different country for what every reason and I'm sure there are more than I listed Americans and apparently Japanese stars do not want to play in Toronto.

It's apparent to most reasonable people that building a team through Free Agency, for Toronto, is a ship that has long passed. I'm sure there are some mid and low UFA's that we can get but stars and ultra stars, that ship has left the dock. Maybe agents are using Toronto as a barging chip ( I get that this last failure that was not a thing), what's better than the second/third richest owner being in competition for every UFA, even if we are not, it pumps up his value.

IMO this is how we right the ship:

1) Stop being chumps. Stop being in every prized UFA rumor - come out and forcefully say we are not perusing player X. Every time we are a brides maid, it hurts the teams reputation and affects the Blue Jays current players perception of where they are playing. It reduces the value of wanting to play in Toronto.

2) Rebuild - Suck up your pride. Trade anything not bolted down to the ground. Including Bo and Vlad.

3) Money, money, money. Put your money into coaches, team development and scouting. Poach as many scouts and coaches from the Dodgers org as you can. Over pay for their services, at ridiculous rates. Make Toronto a destination for leaders and knowledgeable baseball people. Make it your #1 strategy to get the best teachers / the best strategists.

4) Bye Felicia. Fire the current front office, the coaching and scouting staff. All gone, we have a terrible MLB team and we have a terrible farm system.

5) The kids are alright. Put your focus on drafting, player development and coaching, everything you got goes into drafting and development. If you cant build through the UFA market, you have to build through the farm.

6) Toronto - You Belong Here (actual advertising campaign). In the cities that have MLB and minor league teams, partner with the City of Toronto and Ontario tourism to promote how amazing Toronto is, what a great place to live and visit, etc. you're not talking about the Jays you are talking about the city. Possibly a few quality free agents will see this and maybe this helps correct their uneducated bias. Promote in every type of media that you can think of. Digital, print, where ever.

​

The worst part about all of this is that this is exactly what Shapiro promised the fans (a team with a good farm that doesn't have to get it's core from free agency).

 

[Hellcat]

The worst part about all of this is that this is exactly what Shapiro promised the fans (a team with a good farm that doesn't have to get it's core from free agency).

Exactly, the blueprint can be great but if the men who are responsible for carrying it out are idiots, you'll get Ross Atkins results. Which is why I say you need to get better smarter baseball leaders from the top down. baseball is a numbers game, always has always will be but if you dont have baseball people interpreting those numbers, you get Ross Atkin results. Atkins is a smug deceptive bullshit artist politician and that is it. Every time I hear him speak I feel like I need to take a shower to wash off his greasy smugness. I hear "lies, lies, lies, more lies, bullshit, bullshit, crap, and more lies." He is truly an unlikable, unrelatable failure of a GM.

 

[Hellcat]

We are the laughing stock of baseball right now boys.

Yep no one likes Atkins, even people who meet him for the first time. This is how the conversation goes

Star UFA: Hi Toronto GM, I'm a star UFA I want to go to Toronto.
Ross: Hi I'm Ross At...
Star UFA: Agent, lets explore other opportunities, this guy creeps me out!

 

[Puckstuff]

Yep no one likes Atkins, even people who meet him for the first time. This is how the conversation goes

Star UFA: Hi Toronto GM, I'm a star UFA I want to go to Toronto.
Ross: Hi I'm Ross At...
Star UFA: Agent, lets explore other opportunities, this guy creeps me out!

I don't mind the Straw trade if they think there's a 99 % chance that Sasaki is coming but obviously the risk was bigger then they thought. I think Atkins should hold a press conference to explain to the fans what went wrong.

 

[Greek_physique]

I don't mind the Straw trade if they think there's a 99 % chance that Sasaki is coming but obviously the risk was bigger then they thought. I think Atkins should hold a press conference to explain to the fans what went wrong.

The next press conference should be him talking about why he was fired.

I don't want to hear more excuses

 

[MarMarSab3]

There is no way Shatkins survives this is there? They would need to sign all 3 of Bregman, Alonso and Santander to even have any hope of saving themselves

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Live shot of Shatkins celebrating! Finalists!!!

 

[smitty10]

There is no way Shatkins survives this is there? They would need to sign all 3 of Bregman, Alonso and Santander to even have any hope of saving themselves

If they want to survive they will need to get 2 of them and a good starting pitcher. That's a tall, tall order.

I'm not even mad about the Straw trade. They were led on and did the right thing in the situation they were in. Fans would have been even angrier if they hadn't gone to the distance they did to try and acquire Sasaki.

With that being said, they've still failed. The fact we've missed out on all of the big names in free agency over the past 2 seasons is irrelevant. They've failed because our farm system (even with last seasons trade deadline injection) is still mediocre at best and our stars aren't locked up. This is why guys are hesitant to sign here. You can't blame them.

Bregman, Santander or Alonso, a starting pitcher and a surprise trade to improve another aspect of the team is really the only way to fix things in the short term.

 

[TMLeafer]

I don't mind the Straw trade if they think there's a 99 % chance that Sasaki is coming but obviously the risk was bigger then they thought. I think Atkins should hold a press conference to explain to the fans what went wrong.

A press conference would just piss fans off more because there's no substance in his words. "I'm here this morning to begin to explain the details around the general process of beginning to address our organization's baseball procedures around the possibility of acquiring an opportunity to engage with potentially available international.. Did I mention DUNEDIN COMPLEX?? "

Maybe he's doing something right to be a finalist every time, but maybe it's just a running joke inside the league and he's getting played because his counterparts don't like him either.

 

[smitty10]

A press conference would just piss fans off more because there's no substance in his words. "I'm here this morning to begin to explain the details around the general process of beginning to address our organization's baseball procedures around the possibility of acquiring an opportunity to engage with potentially available international.. Did I mention DUNEDIN COMPLEX?? "

Maybe he's doing something right to be a finalist every time, but maybe it's just a running joke inside the league and he's getting played because his counterparts don't like him either.

I am certain it's not a joke within the league.

The reality is that Toronto is a VERY attractive destination. Players love the city, the amenities and all of the upgrades that Rogers has invested in to make it an elite organization.

The problem is that the team itself is not currently attractive. Players don't see the long term future here as being a winner. So they decide to go elsewhere.

The issue at hand is with management. Not the city or the organization in general. The fact that we've been runner up so often given the state of the team should be a boost to the city and organization. The onfield product is the issue. Management is to blame.

 

[GreytWun]

You really should move to Egypt my friend. Because no offense, but you're living in denial.


This might be the most accurate photo of the 21st century. LMFAO

These are the most dangerous people to try and rationalize with. They will make excuses no matter what. There is quite a few here.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Do Shatkins apologist actually exist at this point? I've not read anyone making excuse for these two in a long time. The results for the 2015 season are already baked in, 4th or 5th in the East. Anything Rogers does near term with Atkins is about salvaging the 2020 season and beyond.

You'd be surprised. But you're probably not going to hear much from them right now.

 

[LaP]

Wow. Even BNS is calling out Shatkins now. That's when you know it’s bad. Lol.

They are not near misses. Agents are using the Jays as a negotiation tactic. Those guys were never going to sign in Toronto.