Blue Jays Discussion: 2024-25 Off-season: The free agent watch begins (and sometimes old baseball radio broadcasts)

[cyris]

They didn't really inherit a great situation. The farm system stunk and it was an aging core.

Vladdy was already signed and Bo was drafted right after by the previous regime’s scouting staff which they immediately began to replace after that draft.
They were gifted the 2 best prospects this team has produced in decades and this is what they have done with it.

They also had Donaldson as a trade chip they completely fumbled as well.

 

[canucksfan]

Vladdy was already signed and Bo was drafted right after by the previous regime’s scouting staff which they immediately began to replace after that draft.
They were gifted the 2 best prospects this team has produced in decades and this is what they have done with it.

Vladdy sure. However, while previous regime scouts picked Bo, the current management group should get credit for going with scouts who weren't theirs. There was an article I read a few years back where it stated, that the current regime didn't want Bo but they went with their lead scout(Sanders I believe). Some wouldn't do that. Bo was also developed under this management system. I would have to look it up but the team's farm system when they took over was around 25th in the league.

The roster they inherited was very good but on a quick decline. They definitely didn't take advantage of getting the most out of trades such as JD. However, some of the players declined too quickly such as Martin and Jose.

 

[cyris]

Vladdy sure. However, while previous regime scouts picked Bo, the current management group should get credit for going with scouts who weren't theirs. There was an article I read a few years back where it stated, that the current regime didn't want Bo but they went with their lead scout(Sanders I believe). Some wouldn't do that. Bo was also developed under this management system. I would have to look it up but the team's farm system when they took over was around 25th in the league.

The roster they inherited was very good but on a quick decline. They definitely didn't take advantage of getting the most out of trades such as JD. However, some of the players declined too quickly such as Martin and Jose.

I see the Jays drafting Bo kinda like the Leafs drafting Cowan. I wouldn’t really give credit to either management group for drafting them.
You can’t credit the guys who were gone and you can’t credit the new guys who weren’t that involved with the picks and later started installing their own scouting staff.

I’ll agree they deserve some credit for developing Vlad and Bo but considering they haven’t been able to do it much with guys they drafted and signed themselves it’s still not much of a high point for them.

 

[GoonieFace]

Vladdy was already signed and Bo was drafted right after by the previous regime’s scouting staff which they immediately began to replace after that draft.
They were gifted the 2 best prospects this team has produced in decades and this is what they have done with it.

They also had Donaldson as a trade chip they completely fumbled as well.

They also wanted to trade Donaldson earlier, but ownership wanted another kick at the can.

I’m really not sure what the hell is going on, but there seems to be no clear direction.

 

[canucksfan]

I see the Jays drafting Bo kinda like the Leafs drafting Cowan. I wouldn’t really give credit to either management group for drafting them.
You can’t credit the guys who were gone and you can’t credit the new guys who weren’t that involved with the picks and later started installing their own scouting staff.

I’ll agree they deserve some credit for developing Vlad and Bo but considering they haven’t been able to do it much with guys they drafted and signed themselves it’s still not much of a high point for them.

That's fair in regards to Bo. It is tough to give a group 'credit'.

In no way I am defending them for their miscues. My first criticism of them was the Happ trade. It was awful at the time I thought. They should have got a much better deal. JD was bad too.

Outside of Bo and Vlad, they had a nice smaller wave of talent with them, Kirk, Manoah, Romano, Jansen, Lourdes, and Biggio(at times) but the next wave never came and with Manoah shitting the bed the pitching depth sucked. A few of those were AA picks.

Having thought about it more they did inherit a better situation than I initially thought but I wouldn't say it was great.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

That's fair in regards to Bo. It is tough to give a group 'credit'.

In no way I am defending them for their miscues. My first criticism of them was the Happ trade. It was awful at the time I thought. They should have got a much better deal. JD was bad too.

Outside of Bo and Vlad, they had a nice smaller wave of talent with them, Kirk, Manoah, Romano, Jansen, Lourdes, and Biggio(at times) but the next wave never came and with Manoah shitting the bed the pitching depth sucked. A few of those were AA picks.

Having thought about it more they did inherit a better situation than I initially thought but I wouldn't say it was great.

I believe that yes, the situation wasn't the greatest. But there was enough there that with a few shrewd moves they could have pivoted pretty quickly and kicked the can down the road a bit more, while starting to pump the system with fresh young talent. Retooling on the fly, so to speak.

Instead, they held on too long on some of the older guys or just got lesser value than they could/should have. Even if they needed a full rebuild, there's been enough time to see the fruits of that labour being seen by now.

They had one more kick of the can, a few pretty good years afterwards, and now this team is pretty much in no man's land. While their two star/franchise players are only 25 and 26 years and entering their prime. It's pretty baffling how bad the situation has been bungled when you come to think of it.

 

[dredeye]

I believe that yes, the situation wasn't the greatest. But there was enough there that with a few shrewd moves they could have pivoted pretty quickly and kicked the can down the road a bit more, while starting to pump the system with fresh young talent. Retooling on the fly, so to speak.

Instead, they held on too long on some of the older guys or just got lesser value than they could/should have. Even if they needed a full rebuild, there's been enough time to see the fruits of that labour being seen by now.

They had one more kick of the can, a few pretty good years afterwards, and now this team is pretty much in no man's land. While their two star/franchise players are only 25 and 26 years and entering their prime. It's pretty baffling how bad the situation has been bungled when you come to think of it.

It’s crazy that they’ve made more bad than good decisions throughout their tenure. Now they’ll fumble their way to the end of the Bo and Vlad era on their way out leaving us with literally nothing but a couple comp picks.

 

[cyris]

It’s crazy that they’ve made more bad than good decisions throughout their tenure. Now they’ll fumble their way to the end of the Bo and Vlad era on their way out leaving us with literally nothing but a couple comp picks.

The only bright side is they won’t be the ones making the comp picks lol

 

[canucksfan]

I believe that yes, the situation wasn't the greatest. But there was enough there that with a few shrewd moves they could have pivoted pretty quickly and kicked the can down the road a bit more, while starting to pump the system with fresh young talent. Retooling on the fly, so to speak.

Instead, they held on too long on some of the older guys or just got lesser value than they could/should have. Even if they needed a full rebuild, there's been enough time to see the fruits of that labour being seen by now.

They had one more kick of the can, a few pretty good years afterwards, and now this team is pretty much in no man's land. While their two star/franchise players are only 25 and 26 years and entering their prime. It's pretty baffling how bad the situation has been bungled when you come to think of it.

From all accounts, Rogers still wanted to compete in 2017. EE left after 2016. They offered him more money than he signed with Cleveland but he waited too long so they went with Morales. Jose and Martin were done by then. JD they waited a tad too long because he was injured most of that season. Happ was a bad trade(was signed by them). They didn't get great value for Stroman. Did really well getting Teoscar though.

It didn't take that long and they were once again competing for the playoffs. They did make it in 2020 but that was COVID playoffs which was a weird season. They had three bad years during the rebuild and it didn't really start until the end of the 2017 season. Even though they screwed some things up, I still maintain they did a good job at turning the team around. For some teams, it can take 5+ years.

They haven't had any playoff success and now talk of a potential retool/rebuild is logical. Really bad last few years from management and this offseason is looking like the worst one yet.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

From all accounts, Rogers still wanted to compete in 2017. EE left after 2016. They offered him more money than he signed with Cleveland but he waited too long so they went with Morales. Jose and Martin were done by then. JD they waited a tad too long because he was injured most of that season. Happ was a bad trade(was signed by them). They didn't get great value for Stroman. Did really well getting Teoscar though.

It didn't take that long and they were once again competing for the playoffs. They did make it in 2020 but that was COVID playoffs which was a weird season. They had three bad years during the rebuild and it didn't really start until the end of the 2017 season. Even though they screwed some things up, I still maintain they did a good job at turning the team around. For some teams, it can take 5+ years.

They haven't had any playoff success and now talk of a potential retool/rebuild is logical. Really bad last few years from management and this offseason is looking like the worst one yet.

I'm not disagreeing with much of anything of this.

I suppose my biggest sticking point, one I have certainly harped on many times here, is the sustainability of this team's contention window. We were told they'd build a sustainable winner that would contend yearly. A pipeline of young talent flowing onto the big league roster, with talent in the minors constantly knocking on the door.

They did a respectable job turning things around. But it wasn't sustained. That being with two pretty solid players to build around too. Therein lies my biggest frustration.

 

[canucksfan]

I'm not disagreeing with much of anything of this.

I suppose my biggest sticking point, one I have certainly harped on many times here, is the sustainability of this team's contention window. We were told they'd build a sustainable winner that would contend yearly. A pipeline of young talent flowing onto the big league roster, with talent in the minors constantly knocking on the door.

They did a respectable job turning things around. But it wasn't sustained. That being with two pretty solid players to build around too. Therein lies my biggest frustration.

Agreed.

I was thinking after the Teo signing if the Jays don't sign one of the bigger names left, should they start the rebuild/retool? If they do, is it possible to do a retool without Vladdy? I am assuming Bo is gone.

 

[saska sault]

Burnes to Arizona.

 

[Kurtz]

I think they'll pivot to Santander now - hes looking for 5/100, and what do they care about years 4 and 5? Have to make a splashy move.

 

[phillipmike]

 

[cyris]

Well now we are starting to run out of good available players.
A Burnes signing with a trade of someone like Basset for a bat could have really helped. That said there was definitely some risk there.

 

[aingefan]

With Burnes off the board, I’m guessing the jays pivot to Pivetta.
Wonder what the Jays offer actually.
Santander as the big bat has been linked since the start of the off-season.

 

[PanniniClaus]

Very pleased to not sign Burnes.. That is going to be a crippling contract for Zona.

 

[EpochLink]

That Burnes signing has Baumgartner signs all over

 

[The Nemesis]

I don't know why anyone would be surprised or hurt/pissed off about the Teoscar signing. From the moment they won the world series he made it incredibly clear that his desire was to return to LA and at no point did the Dodgers ever signal that they would be looking in another direction when they still needed someone for the outfield.

This is and was always by far the most likely outcome.

I get being mad at the relative inaction of the Jays in terms of looking like they give a crap, but in this one specific case this isn't on them because it's not like they were rug-pulled.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Bridesmaids again. I wasn't expecting Teo to realistically come back but at this point it's starting to look like Gimenez was the only move, much to mine and many others fears.

While I didn't want Burnes really, it's not a great look they whiff on another big name. This place is going to go nuclear if they swing and miss on Santander too. And rightfully so.

Useless ass front office. Going to hurt even more when they lose Vlad and Bo because of these dipshits.

 

[WeThreeKings]

They aren't getting anybody and they are just obliterating their chance at retaining Vlad.

Fire these f***ing morons and see if Vlad will negotiate differently with the new regime; if not, then have the new regime in charge of the rebuild.

 

[shaner8989]

f***ing loser organization

Rebuild. It’s literally the only option to makes sense

Trade Vlad
Trade Bo

Start over. f***ing losers running this franchise

 

[Lahey]

At this point adding Satander does Fck all - doesn’t make us a playoff team imo. We should rebuild sadly and gut the front office

 

[Anthrax442]

Found this fitting

 

[hoglund]

I'm upset that Teoscar Hernandez signed with the Dodgers again, why couldn't the Blue Jays use some of that Soto money to sign Teo?