Speculation: 2024-25 - Free Agency/Trade Thread

[Ducks DVM]

I’m not seeing a crazy amount of Fowler hate besides maybe one or two posters

I just keep seeing people saying “the Fowler hate is over the top” when most of the “hate” is just basic discussion about if he fits or not on the team moving forward

He almost seems to have more stans/nutsswingers than haters at this point to me

Yes, but…most of the “the time is now” folks are the same folks who’ve been hating on him for years, because the player he is isn’t the player they want him to be.

 

[AngelDuck]

Yes, but…most of the “the time is now” folks are the same folks who’ve been hating on him for years, because the player he is isn’t the player they want him to be.

Yeah I mean I guess I can agree with that.

I just have a hard time grasping why it has become so taboo on this board to simply point out that Cam Fowler isn’t an ideal fit on this roster in 2024. IE: we need someone who plays the right side and is more defensive-oriented

I’m really appreciative of his time here and think a change will be good for both sides

 

[Kalv]

I think if Edmonton had Fowler in the 2nd pairing with Nurse they'd be in good shape. Likely have to get there with 50% retention.

I'd like to see him in Edmonton, I think he'd help to really elevate that blueline and te team. I'd welcome that scenario, but i doubt Oil have the pieces to do that deal

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Yes, but…most of the “the time is now” folks are the same folks who’ve been hating on him for years, because the player he is isn’t the player they want him to be.

Imo fowler doesn’t get enough hate, people have been willing to give him passes, only recently have people started actually even noticing/criticizing him.

But often times it’s not even hate it’s criticizing or looking at the big picture, and the Fowler stans ain’t ready for the conversation yet, they want him to get his 1000 games or something.

Also I don’t recall many people saying fowler is terrible/not nhl talent or even top 4 talent…. A lot of the issues is with fit, future players showing up.


He’s prob a solid #3, good #4 on a contender but that isn’t exactly what we need and stylistically he isn’t the ideal fit. I doubt he’s moved until deadline, because it’s tough to find the right team for him where we can get value back, at that point there may be more legit options.

I'd like to see him in Edmonton, I think he'd help to really elevate that blueline and te team. I'd welcome that scenario, but i doubt Oil have the pieces to do that deal

I don’t think they have any pieces lol… their prospect pool + draft picks is pretty bare.

Detroit would be my ideal target as partners

 

[Ducks DVM]

Yeah I mean I guess I can agree with that.

I just have a hard time grasping why it has become so taboo on this board to simply point out that Cam Fowler isn’t an ideal fit on this roster in 2024. IE: we need someone who plays the right side and is more defensive-oriented

I’m really appreciative of his time here and think a change will be good for both sides

I don’t think it’s taboo at all. I do think that the crickets that emerge are telling when it’s pointed out that none of the kids have actually proven they belong above the third pairing, that their play fell off when their minutes and pairings were challenged, that some (Zellweger in particular) show significant gaps in their ability to actually play defense, that the sophomore slump is a real thing, that trading him leaves us with only 2 proven NHL caliber defensemen, and that we don’t have a single defenseman in the AHL who has any business getting called up this year.

Nobody wants to address any of that. It’s usually just a loud proclamation that the youth are ready to grow and need more minutes, never mind the fact that their defensive possession numbers last year weren’t great with sheltering and ;lower minutes, let’s pitch him because they’re ready.

I’d like to not negatively impact the progression of the youth if they are not ready, and would like to watch a more entertaining, less shit show product this year. Trading the guy who is currently the best left handed D we have should happen AFTER the kids prove they’ve actually made strides IMO, because the ones at the end of last year absolutely weren’t those players IMO.

 

[Static]

I don’t think it’s taboo at all. I do think that the crickets that emerge are telling when it’s pointed out that none of the kids have actually proven they belong above the third pairing, that their play fell off when their minutes and pairings were challenged, that some (Zellweger in particular) show significant gaps in their ability to actually play defense, that the sophomore slump is a real thing, that trading him leaves us with only 2 proven NHL caliber defensemen, and that we don’t have a single defenseman in the AHL who has any business getting called up this year.

Nobody wants to address any of that. It’s usually just a loud proclamation that the youth are ready to grow and need more minutes, never mind the fact that their defensive possession numbers last year weren’t great with sheltering and ;lower minutes, let’s pitch him because they’re ready.

I’d like to not negatively impact the progression of the youth if they are not ready, and would like to watch a more entertaining, less shit show product this year. Trading the guy who is currently the best left handed D we have should happen AFTER the kids prove they’ve actually made strides IMO, because the ones at the end of last year absolutely weren’t those players IMO.

The conversation either changes drastically or ceases once any mention of evidence is brought up.

The 'trade Fowler' contingent is a vibes-only affair.

 

[MMC]

I’m perfectly content with Fowler being on the team right now and I’d also be perfectly content if PV moved him for fair value right after I post this

 

[Gliff]

Yeah I mean I guess I can agree with that.

I just have a hard time grasping why it has become so taboo on this board to simply point out that Cam Fowler isn’t an ideal fit on this roster in 2024. IE: we need someone who plays the right side and is more defensive-oriented

I’m really appreciative of his time here and think a change will be good for both sides

Totally agree he isn't a perfect fit, but the team is worse without him then with him. IDK why the Ducks would make themselves worse and rush kids into the top pairing. Especially when there is an expiration date here. He will likely be gone at the deadline.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Totally agree he isn't a perfect fit, but the team is worse without him then with him. IDK why the Ducks would make themselves worse and rush kids into the top pairing. Especially when there is an expiration date here. He will likely be gone at the deadline.

Team is pretty bad with him…. No one has suggested ever to make a kid a top pair guy, simply spread the mins out.

 

[Gliff]

Team is pretty bad with him…. No one has suggested ever to make a kid a top pair guy, simply spread the mins out.

I genuinely don't see how this is a legit argument. We are bad so f*** IT. They are trying to get better now, not worse.

Just because they wont be playing 24 minutes a night doesnt mean they wont be put in bad situations because Fowler is gone. It will still require guys to play against the other team's best players before they are ready. I would much rather Fowler get burnt by McDavid then Minty. Let the kids grow.

I'm not saying they should extend him and keep him here for another 5 years, but there is no upside to moving him now as opposed to at the deadline. Give Minty, Zell, LaCombe, and Luneau another year with that much more insulation.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I genuinely don't see how this is a legit argument. We are bad so f*** IT. They are trying to get better now, not worse.

Just because they wont be playing 24 minutes a night doesnt mean they wont be put in bad situations because Fowler is gone. It will still require guys to play against the other team's best players before they are ready. I would much rather Fowler get burnt by McDavid then Minty. Let the kids grow.

I'm not saying they should extend him and keep him here for another 5 years, but there is no upside to moving him now as opposed to at the deadline. Give Minty, Zell, LaCombe, and Luneau another year with that much more insulation.

Mcdavid burns every dmen in the league … not sure how that’s a great argument

 

[Gliff]

Mcdavid burns every dmen in the league … not sure how that’s a great argument

My point is the kids wouldnt normally be on the ice against the other team's top line with regularity. If Fowler is traded that wont be the case. 1 of the kids is going to be on the ice at all times.

 

[MMC]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1844074176828801531

 

[McDonald19]

Setting aside Fowler’s actual on ice performance, it is important to note that he is the last of the old guard (along with Gibson). He wasn’t given the C for a reason. It’s time to have new leadership to try to build a winning culture in Anaheim.

 

[AngelDuck]

I don’t think it’s taboo at all. I do think that the crickets that emerge are telling when it’s pointed out that none of the kids have actually proven they belong above the third pairing, that their play fell off when their minutes and pairings were challenged, that some (Zellweger in particular) show significant gaps in their ability to actually play defense, that the sophomore slump is a real thing, that trading him leaves us with only 2 proven NHL caliber defensemen, and that we don’t have a single defenseman in the AHL who has any business getting called up this year.

Nobody wants to address any of that. It’s usually just a loud proclamation that the youth are ready to grow and need more minutes, never mind the fact that their defensive possession numbers last year weren’t great with sheltering and ;lower minutes, let’s pitch him because they’re ready.

I’d like to not negatively impact the progression of the youth if they are not ready, and would like to watch a more entertaining, less shit show product this year. Trading the guy who is currently the best left handed D we have should happen AFTER the kids prove they’ve actually made strides IMO, because the ones at the end of last year absolutely weren’t those players IMO.

I don’t need to address any of that because I don’t want the youth playing above where they should be and I believe you can do that with or without Fowler here.

I’d like to point out that Vaakanainen had a good season and should be playing too. He’s the forgotten man on these boards and by the team right now but he shouldn’t be.

My defense after a Fowler trade would be:

LaCombe-Gudas
Mintyukov-Dumolin
Vaakanainen-Luneau


it’s really not that different than it is right now.
Zellweger starts in the AHL and gets called up after the 1st injury.
Again, I don’t understand this massive freak out about kids being shoe horned into roles if Fowler is gone.

I also think it’s important to note that Fowler is no where near the same player he was from 2013-2020. People conveniently leave that part out.

 

[Static]

I don’t need to address any of that because I don’t want the youth playing above where they should be and I believe you can do that with or without Fowler here.

I’d like to point out that Vaakanainen had a good season and should be playing too. He’s the forgotten man on these boards and by the team right now but he shouldn’t be.

My defense after a Fowler trade would be:

LaCombe-Gudas
Mintyukov-Dumolin
Vaakanainen-Luneau


it’s really not that different than it is right now.
Zellweger starts in the AHL and gets called up after the 1st injury.
Again, I don’t understand this massive freak out about kids being shoe horned into roles if Fowler is gone.

I also think it’s important to note that Fowler is no where near the same player he was from 2013-2020. People conveniently leave that part out.

In this scenario, the benefit of moving Fowler is to get vaak into the lineup? Why is that enough for you to make the team worse? Vaak is a nice story, but the guy is a #6/7. Any way you slice it, Fowler out and vaak in makes the team worse. Why do we want that?

Second, it is unavoidable to move our bullet sponge and not have kids taking strays. That is unavoidable. You have to be ok with lacombe, luneau, and mintyukov taking on substantially tougher minutes between them, hope they are ready for it, and hope it doesn't negatively effect their development. Are those risks worth the positive (??????) of removing fowler from the team?

Third, fowler's statistical output has been brought up ad nauseum to combat the Fowler sucks crowd, and those arguments have been met with "well the stats lie" or "we don't care about his production". So, when you say he hasn't been as good as when the team was good, yeah no shit. But, the data supports the pro-fowler crowd far more than the other side.

This isn't meant as a dump on you, but the Fowler debate becomes a drive-by cascade of bad takes once an actual discussion begins, because the argument of dumping him for no real upgrade or reason doesn't make any sense.

And again, vaak is going to get into the lineup. Probably a lot! We use 9-10 dmen every year. Someone is going to get hurt, many someones, and he is going to play. Zellweger is going to play. Some very bad AHL dman is going to play. Why we want to worsen our depth is lost on me.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Team is pretty bad with him…. No one has suggested ever to make a kid a top pair guy, simply spread the mins out.

Maybe the kids weren't ready for the extra minutes. Here's how the youth D finished.

Ducks	Youth D
Player	Game set	Games	G	A	Pts	PPG		+/-	Hits	Blocks	Comments
LaCombe	49 to 71	23	1	7	8	0.35		1	12	44	From Feb 19 to Apr 18
Minty	41 to 63	23	2	7	9	0.39		-9	29	22	from Feb 13 to Mar 30
Zell	5 to 26	22	2	6	8	0.36		-8	10	33	From Mar 1 to Apr 18

Minty and Zell struggled defensively in a top-4 role, but LaCombe improved throughout the season. Then we add Luneau on a daily basis and we're just adding another unknown factor defensively.

It looks like we're testing out LaCombe-Gudas as a top pairing, with LaCombe getting PP and PK time in preseason. That will leave Fowler as Luneau's babysitter for this season, or a rotation with Zell. Either way, Fowler will be playing the defensive guy on the pairing.

Anaheim is still in a development stage. This season should be another development season as we're introducing two new players full-time in the NHL with LW Cutter and RD Luneau as well as monitoring the growth of the several rookies heading into their 2nd season into the NHL.

 

[Static]

If the team wants to see how the kids handle a bigger role, then play Fowler less. I would not disagree whatsoever that that needs to occur this season, it's the natural order of things.

But there's a difference between weaning and cold turkey, and you can't takesy-backseys if you find out the kids aren't quite ready.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I don’t need to address any of that because I don’t want the youth playing above where they should be and I believe you can do that with or without Fowler here.

I’d like to point out that Vaakanainen had a good season and should be playing too. He’s the forgotten man on these boards and by the team right now but he shouldn’t be.

My defense after a Fowler trade would be:

LaCombe-Gudas
Mintyukov-Dumolin
Vaakanainen-Luneau


it’s really not that different than it is right now.
Zellweger starts in the AHL and gets called up after the 1st injury.
Again, I don’t understand this massive freak out about kids being shoe horned into roles if Fowler is gone.

I also think it’s important to note that Fowler is no where near the same player he was from 2013-2020. People conveniently leave that part out.

This sounds awfully like Verbeek thinking, "I can replace Hampus with Klingberg." Verbeek truly was believing the team could be .500 team to start that season. I'm so glad Klingberg turned down Verbeek's multi-year initial offer.

 

[Kalv]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1844074176828801531

Good for him, I hope he establishes himself as an NHL guy there