- Jul 25, 2012
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A lot of dmen can do that at the lvl of fowler , might even be more appropriate fits.
Speculation: 2024-25 - Free Agency/Trade Thread
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gunnergunther
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2010
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why didn’t verbeek sign or trade for them then? It’s not like fowlers cap is preventing it.
Ducks DVM
sowcufucakky
Fowler isn’t here to make us a playoff team. He’s here to prevent the kids from being rushed. There will be injuries. I’d rather have veteran depth. Rushing defensemen is a great way to stunt who they CAN be.
Or, as I said, something that improves the team NOW. Not the garbage returns you’re ok with on the trade boards simply because you want him gone.
The number of defenseman who belong on a top pairing by the age of 20-21 and thrive long term is extremely small.
Great points. Rushing Fowler stunted what he could have been.
AngelDuck
Rak 'em up
- Jun 16, 2012
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Dumolin
Mintyukov
Zellweger
LaCombe
Vaakanainen
All are left handed and all are under contract and likely going to be in the NHL
The minute that Dumolin was acquired, the writing was on the wall for Fowler to potentially be moved at some point during this season
I’m surprised that anyone is surprised by this.
It’ll have a negligible impact on us IMO whether he stays or goes
I actually would like to see:
Mintyukov-Gudas
Zellweger-Dumolin
vaakanainen-Luneau
LaCombe
Quite honestly, those pairings are more balanced than with Fowler on the roster
Mintyukov
Zellweger
LaCombe
Vaakanainen
All are left handed and all are under contract and likely going to be in the NHL
The minute that Dumolin was acquired, the writing was on the wall for Fowler to potentially be moved at some point during this season
I’m surprised that anyone is surprised by this.
It’ll have a negligible impact on us IMO whether he stays or goes
I actually would like to see:
Mintyukov-Gudas
Zellweger-Dumolin
vaakanainen-Luneau
LaCombe
Quite honestly, those pairings are more balanced than with Fowler on the roster
We used 12 defenseman last season, 13 the year before. So when you say it'll have a "negligible" impact to take out our best defenseman from the 12 or so we will use again this year and replace him with some non-nhl player, I question what logic that is coming from.
Everyone understands we need more NHL talent, not less, right? In game 35, when we are all bitching about the same results, I will wonder why some were so ambivalent about freely jettisoning more talent just because.
AngelDuck
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- Jun 16, 2012
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Gudas was our best defenseman and it’s not particularly close in my opinion.
I don’t think the current Cam Fowler is who you think he is. Dumolin is a slight downgrade but not much. I expect Mintyukov to become better than him by mid-season. It’s just a numbers game
I think Fowler is a legitimate NHL player and every internal replacement we would have to insert into the lineup to replace him is not. On a team with issues dressing actually NHL lineups all season, that is a huge deal.
And it isn't about Fowler vs. Mintyukov or vs. Dumoulin. Our defense with all three is still not good enough, but you want to remove one for no real reason? The kids can displace Fowler while he remains in the lineup!
In fact, if they cannot, that is further proof that he is still needed. They need to beat him up the lineup before we should think about moving on.
In fact, if they cannot, that is further proof that he is still needed. They need to beat him up the lineup before we should think about moving on.
AngelDuck
Rak 'em up
- Jun 16, 2012
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It comes down to roster construction for me. The pieces have to fit and I don’t think Cam really does with this current batch of players.
He’s a fine NHL player though
Honestly, I’m just really indifferent on him
You really can’t play Fowler, Mintyukov, Zellweger, and LaCombe all in the same lineup as we saw last year though. They don’t fit together!
Dumolin and Gudas were good adds that fit what we need around the youth
robbieboy3686
Registered User
- Jan 17, 2016
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Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Gudas was our best defenseman last year as a 2nd pairing role with 2nd pairing minutes, 19:30 ATOI. The more minutes Gudas got, the less effective he was and also got injured, playing a total of 66 games. Gudas cannot survive in a top-pairing role. Fowler, OTOH, played 24+ minutes for the past three seasons: 2021-22 played 76 games, 2022-23 played 82 games, and 2023-24 played 81 games.
Dumo's minutes have trickled down the past three seasons: 21:49 three years ago, 20:38 two years ago, and 17:01 last year.
Minty started off great, but he was also sheltered in a third pairing role. He wore down once elevated up pairings.
| Mintyukov | ||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Game Set | Games | G | A | Pts | PPG | +/- | Hits | Blocks | Pair | |
| 1 to 63 | 63 | 4 | 24 | 28 | 0.44 | -20 | 85 | 65 | Total season | |
| 1 to 20 | 20 | 1 | 10 | 11 | 0.55 | -1 | 30 | 24 | Lybush 3rd pair | |
| 21 to 40 | 20 | 1 | 7 | 8 | 0.40 | -10 | 26 | 19 | Lyubush, 2nd P, injury | |
| 41 to 47 | 7 | 1 | 3 | 4 | 0.57 | -2 | 10 | 2 | Lyubush | |
| 48 to 55 | 8 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 0.25 | -5 | 6 | 13 | Gudas, top pair | |
| 56 to 62 | 7 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 0.43 | 0 | 11 | 7 | LaCombe | |
| 63 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.00 | -2 | 2 | 0 | Lindstrom |
There is no need to rush Minty. We do need to see if Minty can handle top-4 role better this year as well as not fade as the season goes. Surprisingly, Minty's best, overall outing in a top-4 role was with LaCombe.
I don't think many people comprehend that Gudas and Dumo cannot handle top pairing minutes.
"Schrodinger's cat"? Meh, I present to you... "Fowler's situation"
Some more and some less but I think all of you make sense
Albeit i'm on a team "Fowler is underrated".
Can't wait for the games to start so we can all collectively overreact on preseason performances instead of this
Some more and some less but I think all of you make sense
Albeit i'm on a team "Fowler is underrated".Can't wait for the games to start so we can all collectively overreact on preseason performances instead of this
mightyquack
eggplant and jade or bust
- Apr 28, 2010
- 26,653
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I wonder how many young defencemen we have to watch get rushed into the NHL and fail to develop, before the value of having veteran defencemen to eat up minutes and let the young defencemen develop without being thrown in the deep end is realised.
The roster may be more balanced without Fowler, but I'd rather have Zellweger play 3rd pairing minutes to start and Mintyukov be put on the 2nd pairing.
LaCombe and Luneau should be in the AHL getting big minutes. Luneau especially just needs to play.
Fowler-Gudas
Mintyukov-Dumolin
Zellweger-Vaak
If the younger defenceman play well enough that they can get more minutes, then you can look at moving Fowler. Moving Fowler now would be absolute suicide for the development of Minty/Zellweger IMO, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happens, because throwing young players in the deep end before they are ready is our style right now.
The roster may be more balanced without Fowler, but I'd rather have Zellweger play 3rd pairing minutes to start and Mintyukov be put on the 2nd pairing.
LaCombe and Luneau should be in the AHL getting big minutes. Luneau especially just needs to play.
Fowler-Gudas
Mintyukov-Dumolin
Zellweger-Vaak
If the younger defenceman play well enough that they can get more minutes, then you can look at moving Fowler. Moving Fowler now would be absolute suicide for the development of Minty/Zellweger IMO, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happens, because throwing young players in the deep end before they are ready is our style right now.
70sSanO
Registered User
If Cam Fowler is the linchpin between winning and losing, Lord help us.
John
John
Do you know why Gudas was our best defenseman? Because, as it has been throughout his career, he was kept to under 20 minutes of playing time. And he was kept under 20 minutes of playing time at least in part because Fowler played 24:25 per night.
I know people complain about Fowler playing a ton of minutes when he shouldn't. It's true that Fowler is miscast as a minute-muncher, but no one else on the roster would be as effective in that many minutes. There's a reason Gudas has never averaged 20 minutes of ice time per game. He just isn't effective once he gets up to that level.
My hope and belief is that the kids will be better in more minutes next year and Fowler's minutes can come down. But under no circumstances should they be looking to play Gudas more than the 19:30 he played last season.
AngelDuck
Rak 'em up
- Jun 16, 2012
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I’m not at all convinced that Fowler would be as good as Gudas is if he played 19:30 per game but you’re entitled to your opinion as well. Gudas is really really good at obstructing offense and has done it in both conferences and on good and bad teams. Him and Fowler are pretty much complete opposites in terms of skillsets. Just depends what you value more
Unfortunately, we’ll never know because the coaching staff (multiple different ones) has a tough time utilizing Fowler to his skillset
It’s an unfortunate situation all around and I wouldn’t blame both sides for wanting to look elsewhere. I’m sure some of the losing had taken a toll on Cam as well
Both skillsets are necessary in a defense. Fowler is not as physical as Gudas, obviously, but is still fine in his own zone because of his skating and his ability to get the puck out. He's not nearly as good at it as he used to be, but he's still decent.
Again, I'm not opposed to trading Fowler if the right deal comes along, but the Ducks would need to get a guy for at least this season who could take some tough minutes. Dumoulin provides some of that protection, but they probably would need one more veteran body. I'm of the opinion that Mintyukov and Zellweger should be getting more of those tough minutes this season and that they'll be ready to lead this defense as soon as 25-26.
AngelDuck
Rak 'em up
- Jun 16, 2012
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We don’t disagree at all here really then. Fowler fine to keep or trade. One more veteran stopgap with a bias towards defense would be nice if they move him obviously.
I just don’t think the Fowler discussion should be this polarizing. Him being here is fine but it’s also fine if it’s another decent veteran defenseman brought in on a 1 year deal to replace him. We’ll survive
I think there are some people that are hanging onto the Fowler memories from 2013-2019 here. He’s not that player anymore which is not surprising considering the mileage on him and his age. He’s a solid 2nd pairing NHL defenseman, nothing more nothing less
- Jul 25, 2012
- 42,353
- 39,132
I think we’re all on agreement here….. I think the Fowler sympathizers see a fowler trade in black and white, don’t really consider bringing in a diff vet presence that might be a better fit for the build of the team.
They were also the ones that didn’t see lacombe minty luneau or zell in nhl last year, which again they were wrong.
MMC
Global Moderator
KelVarnsen
Registered User
Bummer. I'm guessing he will make more money there so I cant blame him.
robbieboy3686
Registered User
- Jan 17, 2016
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Deuce22
Registered User
Fowler played top pairing minutes but didn't "handle" them. It's a fallacy to say Gudas and Dumoulin can't play more minutes but Fowler could. He did and it was bad.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Gudas over 20 ATOI would spell disaster because we witnessed it last year. Remember, the premise is trading away Fowler, which would elevate Gudas to the top pairing role with youth Mintyukov. And as shared previously, the Minty-Gudas top pairing didn't work out too well last year and ended up with Gudas getting injured.
The only youth that improved at defense is LaCombe, but many on here don't see him as a core prospect moving forward. Here's how our three rookies finished their seasons, with Minty's season finished early due to injury.
| Ducks | |||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Player | Game set | Games | G | A | Pts | PPG | +/- | Hits | Blocks | Comments | |
| LaCombe | 49 to 71 | 23 | 1 | 7 | 8 | 0.35 | 1 | 12 | 44 | From Feb 19 to Apr 18 | |
| Minty | 41 to 63 | 23 | 2 | 7 | 9 | 0.39 | -9 | 29 | 22 | from Feb 13 to Mar 30 | |
| Zell | 5 to 26 | 22 | 2 | 6 | 8 | 0.36 | -8 | 10 | 33 | From Mar 1 to Apr 18 |
Minty and Zell need more time to develop better defensively at the NHL level as OFD's. They are not there today, but they can be in the future if they're nurtured properly.
