2024-25 EPL Season

[Jussi]

Outsourcing is such an insanely loaded term, asking for third party consultants who are qualified to assess in metrics that you are not qualified to assess through is a profoundly reasonable exercise. It does not presuppose that you’re not also doing any internal evaluation yourself.

I think the point is that Ashworth was expected to be "qualified" to do it without outsourcing. Like Berrada.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

I think the point is that Ashworth was expected to be "qualified" to do it without outsourcing. Like Berrada.

From the article:

Friction was also apparent when Ashworth proposed bringing in a data company to evaluate the candidates to replace Ten Hag. Ratcliffe was said to have reacted badly, countering that it was Ashworth’s job to know such matters rather than outsource, while also making him question United’s in-house capabilities

Firing a guy who got there 5 months ago because the internal infrastructure sucks and so he wants to use an outside entity to cover for it is absolutely, unambiguously, batshit stupid. The stuff he “should’ve been able to do” is stuff United does not have in-house, and he just f***ing got there.

I know that “Big Jim’s at the wheel” or whatever, but firing a guy who’s been present for 5 months because he wanted external input to cover for infrastructural deficits which predate him is boneheaded, especially after you waited so long for him to actually take the position.

 

[Jussi]

From the article:

Firing a guy who got there 5 months ago because the internal infrastructure sucks and so he wants to use an outside entity to cover for it is absolutely, unambiguously, batshit stupid. The stuff he “should’ve been able to do” is stuff United does not have in-house, and he just f***ing got there.

I know that “Big Jim’s at the wheel” or whatever, but firing a guy who’s been present for 5 months because he wanted external input to cover for infrastructural deficits which predate him is boneheaded, especially after you waited so long for him to actually take the position.

He's been unofficially involved before he was allowed to. Apparently all the summer signing except for the package deal of De Ligt and Mazraoui were his.

The relationship between Ratcliffe and his primary football executive had become strained after the only public address given by Ashworth as a United employee. Before kick-off in the Liverpool game on September 1, Ashworth and Berrada spoke to journalists to map out their thoughts on how the summer window had gone and what might come next. Both denied being involved in Ten Hag staying and extending terms after United’s FA Cup final victory, but they were across the decision, according to sources.

Those responses irritated Ratcliffe. Berrada and Ashworth had been on gardening leave, so understandably had to be careful on the record, but both were in communication on United business before they were officially in the building.


Ratcliffe felt the concept of gardening leave “absurd”, so wanted his incoming executives to get started straight away. For instance, Berrada was in meetings when Ten Hag’s future was agreed upon.

At times, as the proposed arbitration with Newcastle loomed, Ashworth went radio silent. There was much greater legal sensitivity around his appointment than that of Berrada, but Ashworth had been in touch with United colleagues and involved in some meetings about prospective managers when Ten Hag’s future looked in deep jeopardy.

 

[The Abusement Park]

From the article:

Firing a guy who got there 5 months ago because the internal infrastructure sucks and so he wants to use an outside entity to cover for it is absolutely, unambiguously, batshit stupid. The stuff he “should’ve been able to do” is stuff United does not have in-house, and he just f***ing got there.

I know that “Big Jim’s at the wheel” or whatever, but firing a guy who’s been present for 5 months because he wanted external input to cover for infrastructural deficits which predate him is boneheaded, especially after you waited so long for him to actually take the position.

Very much this... And if that's something you don't want to do why would you hire a guy who's very much known for working that way? It's either overly reactionary from SJR or SJR isn't hiring the right people for what he wants to do. Well actually it's both... which is worse.

 

[Chimaera]

So they whack a guy they waited 5 months for (though the athletic article seems to imply they tried to get him to work through it) and paid a release for only to boot him because he wasn’t ecstatic on the Portuguese guy and wanted some EPL experienced players. They do know that’s basically what he’s done at Newcastle and prior stops? They actually looked at his body of work?

Idiots the lot of them

 

[hatterson]

The point I fall on is that regardless of whether firing Ashworth was a good idea or not, the entire process of hiring him and then quickly firing him does not bode well for how in control, organized, and composed the new group is.

 

[The Abusement Park]

The point I fall on is that regardless of whether firing Ashworth was a good idea or not, the entire process of hiring him and then quickly firing him does not bode well for how in control, organized, and composed the new group is.

Yeah… when your whole selling point is “there’s no structure here. We have to put together a structure to be successful” and you already fired one of the biggest pieces of said structure… Doesn’t give me a lot of confidence that they actually know how set up said structure.

 

[Savant]

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Love this graphic. He's a 10 on paper, but you never know game-to-game where he's actually gonna be playing. Tells you just as much about Maresca as it does about Cole.

 

[The Abusement Park]

View attachment 942297

Love this graphic. He's a 10 on paper, but you never know game-to-game where he's actually gonna be playing. Tells you just as much about Maresca as it does about Cole.

My favorite thing about Palmer is watching him is that physically he's not really anything special. But my god his brain and technical skills are just on another level. He always makes the right pass, touch, shot etc it seems and he's always where he needs to be. Very jealous of Chelsea getting him.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

But that’s what a 10 does?

 

[Jussi]

Yeah… when your whole selling point is “there’s no structure here. We have to put together a structure to be successful” and you already fired one of the biggest pieces of said structure… Doesn’t give me a lot of confidence that they actually know how set up said structure.

It does give a feeling that maybe they should've done more research on Ashworth. He seemed to be overly favoring British players/managers, which at least I was not aware of.

 

[S E P H]

Arsenal now wants to hire Ashworth to replace Edu lol.

 

[Jussi]

Arsenal now wants to hire Ashworth to replace Edu lol.

Arteta out, Southgate in then.

 

[The Abusement Park]

It does give a feeling that maybe they should've done more research on Ashworth. He seemed to be overly favoring British players/managers, which at least I was not aware of.

I mean the English manager this is problematic, but that's not even remotely the biggest issue. They had problems with him wanting to use analytics to research potential candidates to replace ETH and SJR said "why would we know that, you should already know". That means SJR did no research on how Ashworth works/has been successful. I mean if Ashworth wasn't a fit/good at his job I agree that he shouldn't be kept around, but the fact that SJR/INEOS got it so badly wrong is pretty worrying to me.

 

[Jussi]

I mean the English manager this is problematic, but that's not even remotely the biggest issue. They had problems with him wanting to use analytics to research potential candidates to replace ETH and SJR said "why would we know that, you should already know". That means SJR did no research on how Ashworth works/has been successful. I mean if Ashworth wasn't a fit/good at his job I agree that he shouldn't be kept around, but the fact that SJR/INEOS got it so badly wrong is pretty worrying to me.

I think the assumption was that he'd be like Berrada, who didn't need data analytics but could immediately identify the right man for the job?

 

[The Abusement Park]

I think the assumption was that he'd be like Berrada, who didn't need data analytics but could immediately identify the right man for the job?

Well they shouldn't be hiring positions of that magnitude on assumptions....

 

[hatterson]

Well they shouldn't be hiring positions of that magnitude on assumptions....

Also if their stance is "he should just know what to do and not need analytics" then that might be even worse.

 

[Jussi]

Also if their stance is "he should just know what to do and not need analytics" then that might be even worse.

I'd agree with player scouting/transfers but since the other two people already sided with Amorim, he ended up standining as the odd man out. Amorim seemed like the no-brainer choice for Berrada and Wilcox and of the available options and I can't really fault them. Though it would've been interesting to see the data where Howe, Frank or Southgate come ahead of Amorim.

 

[gary69]

Man Utd most likely already have access to any data they want, so you can sort of understand their position that if the guy they hired to make decisions/recommendations, he should have the expertise do so.

Instead of just hiring outside consultants/analytics team to perform those tasks. Companies do often use management/business consultants, but directors should still have the expertise to make quality decisions themselves. Otherwise what they are paying the guy for?

 

[hatterson]

Man Utd most likely already have access to any data they want, so you can sort of understand their position that if the guy they hired to make decisions/recommendations, he should have the expertise do so.

Instead of just hiring outside consultants/analytics team to perform those tasks. Companies do often use management/business consultants, but directors should still have the expertise to make quality decisions themselves. Otherwise what they are paying the guy for?

I'm unsure what United has done in the last several years (or 2 decades TBH) would lead anyone to believe they have a competent in house data team.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I'd agree with player scouting/transfers but since the other two people already sided with Amorim, he ended up standining as the odd man out. Amorim seemed like the no-brainer choice for Berrada and Wilcox and of the available options and I can't really fault them. Though it would've been interesting to see the data where Howe, Frank or Southgate come ahead of Amorim.

Again this is the issue... How are you hiring someone that isn't on the same page as the owner and other executives so soon?

Also if their stance is "he should just know what to do and not need analytics" then that might be even worse.

Yeah everything about this saga is a gigantic red flag regarding SJR and INEOS.

 

[Jussi]

Yeah everything about this saga is a gigantic red flag regarding SJR and INEOS.

While I don't think it paints them in a good picture, "gigantic red flag" is hyperbole in my opinion. Especially with the rumor fro mPletterberg/Sky Germany that United are now prepared to depart with Rashford, even as early as January, should the right kind of offer arrive. Previous people in charge would never have even considered it.

 

[The Abusement Park]

While I don't think it paints them in a good picture, "gigantic red flag" is hyperbole in my opinion. Especially with the rumor fro mPletterberg/Sky Germany that United are now prepared to depart with Rashford, even as early as January, should the right kind of offer arrive. Previous people in charge would never have even considered it.

What does selling Rashford have to do with INEOS’/SJR’s bad job at the executive level?

 

[Jussi]

What does selling Rashford have to do with INEOS’/SJR’s bad job at the executive level?

Sporting level executive /INEOS overall.