GDT: 2024-2025 Training Camp

[DearDiary]

I see Sullivan has learned a new word this offseason and he keeps using it: Rangy.

Blomqvist is rangy with his movement
Brunicke is long and rangy

What does this mean?

 

[Ulf5]

not so sure about that part, have you watched his defensive game at all? his skating starts to fall apart when he needs to react quickly. he might get by with it in the minors but it won't work in the nhl. yager has his own problems but lets not think McGro's the next coming of ovenchicken.
edit; just go back and watch him trying to penalty kill the last game,

I was purely referring to his leadership aspects and physicality/willingness to go to the dirty areas. Never mentioned defense.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I've seen nothing in camp from Hayes that suggests he's outplaying Eller.
Eller would be my 3C to start the season.
By that I mean the line that will play more, not just what's written on the depth chart.

If Hayes earns 3C throughout the season, swap them at that time. Merit based system.
Ideally both lines play well and their deployment is somewhat similar.

 

[eXile3]

Playing CBJ’s A roster is a lot like playing Hershey lol…tonight’s roster

“This group will have their work cut out from them, the Blue Jackets are dressing an NHL-worthy roster in their final home tune up for the regular season.”

Gonna play with the vets tomorrow night…he’s a backup tonight

I think you’re underestimating them a little. Fantalli is going to be a beast. They have one the better young cores in the league. Kent Johnson, Jiricek, Mateychuk, Brindley, Lindstrom, Dumais. A year or two from now they’re going to be a really talented, young group.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I've seen nothing in camp from Hayes that suggests he's outplaying Eller.
Eller would be my 3C to start the season.
By that I mean the line that will play more, not just what's written on the depth chart.

If Hayes earns 3C throughout the season, swap them at that time. Merit based system.
Ideally both lines play well and their deployment is somewhat similar.

The distinction between 3C and 4C is irrelevant, the point would be to use Hayes in more of a 2-way bottom-6 role while Eller is in a defensive bottom-6 role. You'd want Hayes sitting at about 45% offensive zone start% while Eller is getting crushed with like 20% offensive zone start%.

 

[Ugene Magic]

If McGroarty ends up a 60 point top-6 LW while Yager becomes Brandon Sutter 2.0 (which is an absolute possibility), the Penguins clearly won the trade.

The McGroarty-Yager trade is simple: the Penguins simply thought McGroarty was a better prospect than Yager. That's all there is to it. And considering their rankings, it's hard to say that they're wrong with that analysis. The two are on the same tier of prospects but McGroarty is clearly ranked higher according to pretty much every prospect ranking I've seen.

Don't have any clue where you dreamed up that Sutter comparison, but my overall point is that the Pens having both. You could easily go the other way with McGroarty. Other than being a year older/picked a year sooner there only seems like one is fast tracking sooner.

One could say the Peg won that trade and that their fruit is only on the vine an extra year.

The Peg were put into a corner and came out smelling like roses.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Don't have any clue where you dreamed up that Sutter comparison, but my overall point is that the Pens having both. You could easily go the other way with McGroarty. Other than being a year older/picked a year sooner there only seems like one is fast tracking sooner.

One could say the Peg won that trade and that their fruit is only on the vine an extra year.

The Peg were put into a corner and came out smelling like roses.

Because it's an entirely reasonable result for Yager's development? Brandon Sutter was taken 11th overall back in the day and had an extremely similar skillset to Yager. It is entirely feasible that is all Yager ends up being. You made the claim that McGroarty would have to be Guentzel caliber for the Penguins to win that trade, which is silly because Yager could easily not pan out into being anything special. If McGroarty ends up a better player than Yager, the Penguins won the trade. It's that simple.

You can repeat "the Penguins could have had both" all you want, but the reality is that Winnipeg wasn't trading McGroarty unless they got back something good. They weren't trading McGroarty for Pickering and a 2nd rounder, and if the Penguins think McGroarty is a better prospect than Yager, it's a no brainer to swap the two.

 

[Sideline]

he’s with the NHLers

That's kind of my point about it maybe being a good thing. If Brunicke wasn't a serious contender for a spot in the regular season you would still probably "reward" him with more games in the preseason and see how he plays in back to backs.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Didn't he have 2 years of Michigan eligibility left?
And chances are neither will make any difference before Sid or Geno hang em up. And they both project as complementary pieces.

Didn't he push that to the side the minute the Pens traded for him? So yeah, he still had Michigan. Doesn't change they'd still be getting lowballed.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Deserving of it, I've been extremely happy with what Puljujarvi has shown in camp so far. I really like the Hayes-Puljujarvi C/W duo, I don't know who will be the LWer for that line but I like the combination those two offer. We've already talked about McGroarty there and I think he fits that best, but I also think Beauvillier could make sense in that role.

I guess that brings up an interesting philosophical question though. If you have a slower C/W duo like Hayes-Puljujarvi is, do you want a speedster LW to cover up the speed issues with that duo or a slower guy who can play at the same pace of that C/W duo?

Beauvillier would cover the lack of speed and sort of act as the first guy in on the forecheck role.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Because it's an entirely reasonable result for Yager's development? Brandon Sutter was taken 11th overall back in the day and had an extremely similar skillset to Yager. It is entirely feasible that is all Yager ends up being. You made the claim that McGroarty would have to be Guentzel caliber for the Penguins to win that trade, which is silly because Yager could easily not pan out into being anything special. If McGroarty ends up a better player than Yager, the Penguins won the trade. It's that simple.

You can repeat "the Penguins could have had both" all you want, but the reality is that Winnipeg wasn't trading McGroarty unless they got back something good. They weren't trading McGroarty for Pickering and a 2nd rounder, and if the Penguins think McGroarty is a better prospect than Yager, it's a no brainer to swap the two.

So just anything to help your case. Nothing like he could also take off and be a legitimate 2c, or in this case, the Pens in a rebuild as the #1. Whereas Sutter came in behind Sid/Geno taking over where Staal left off and hurt everything he was doing in Carolina? Further stunting him progressing.

Who knows what they would actually accept considering Dubas offered up, Yager. That's the point, nobody else was offering up that type of prospect. Nor should they.

Who's to say who is better than who. It's a judgement call that can easily go either way.

But if Yager is even similar to McGroarty I'm sorry, but... Center over Wing all day.

 

[Empoleon8771]

So just anything to help your case. Nothing like he could also take off and be a legitimate 2c, or in this case, the Pens in a rebuild as the #1. Whereas Sutter came in behind Sid/Geno taking over where Staal left off and hurt everything he was doing in Carolina? Further stunting him progressing.

Who knows what they would actually accept considering Dubas offered up, Yager. That's the point, nobody else was offering up that type of prospect. Nor should they.

Who's to say who is better than who. It's a judgement call that can easily go either way.

But if Yager is even similar to McGroarty I'm sorry, but... Center over Wing all day.

I never said Yager couldn't hit that kind of upside? I was responding to this "McGroarty has to end up as good as Guentzel or this deal is a loss for the Penguins" idea. If Yager only ends up a Sutter type, which is entirely reasonable possibility based on their skillsets and where both were drafted, and McGroarty ends up a top-6 winger, the Penguins won the trade. It's that simple. McGroarty ending up the better player means the Penguins won the trade, there is no need for McGroarty to somehow be elite or else the Penguins lose the deal.

Trying to nickel and dime the Jets into trading McGroarty for shit, which they weren't going to do, would just result in the Penguins not getting McGroarty. If the Penguins thought Yager was an inferior prospect to McGroarty, they would have been absolute morons to say no to that deal. There is no situation where the Penguins could have had both Yager and McGroarty, and if you had to pick one, the Penguins should pick the one they think is better.

 

[The Old Master]

I was purely referring to his leadership aspects and physicality/willingness to go to the dirty areas. Never mentioned defense.

on that we agree.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I see Sullivan has learned a new word this offseason and he keeps using it: Rangy.

Blomqvist is rangy with his movement
Brunicke is long and rangy

What does this mean?

Remember when this team loved using the term "denter"?

Like, Harrison Ruopp is a denter.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Remember when this team loved using the term "denter"?

Like, Harrison Ruopp is a denter.

Didn't JR devote like a whole draft/offseason to "denters?"

Tom Wilson broke more than just ZAR's jaw that year.

 

[Ryder71]

But if Yager is even similar to McGroarty I'm sorry, but... Center over Wing all day.

Absolutely! Center is the premium position, if all is equal or even close, you opt for the Center.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I never said Yager couldn't hit that kind of upside? I was responding to this "McGroarty has to end up as good as Guentzel or this deal is a loss for the Penguins" idea. If Yager only ends up a Sutter type, which is entirely reasonable possibility based on their skillsets and where both were drafted, and McGroarty ends up a top-6 winger, the Penguins won the trade. It's that simple. McGroarty ending up the better player means the Penguins won the trade, there is no need for McGroarty to somehow be elite or else the Penguins lose the deal.

Trying to nickel and dime the Jets into trading McGroarty for shit, which they weren't going to do, would just result in the Penguins not getting McGroarty. If the Penguins thought Yager was an inferior prospect to McGroarty, they would have been absolute morons to say no to that deal. There is no situation where the Penguins could have had both Yager and McGroarty, and if you had to pick one, the Penguins should pick the one they think is better.

You are the one suggesting Sutter. Nowhere was Sutter ever mentioned in "any" talks. It's only in your brain where this is reality. The point was if Yager was top anywhere around McGroarty that being a center takes the the whole case in point.

Trying to nickle dime a GM in a bad spot is exactly what other GM's should be doing. Are the Peg going to add in future considerations for the Pens doing them a solid?

Holly crap batman.... You never know what they'll take if you don't push the envelope.

Some GM's know how to push and make those deals. This is a GM that gave up a 1st and a bunch of crap to get EK at 10.0 x 4 at 33 years old.

I don't know, I'm not much of giving like to like when the other guy has no pull.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You are the one suggesting Sutter. Nowhere was Sutter ever mentioned in "any" talks. It's only in your brain where this is reality. The point was if Yager was top anywhere around McGroarty that being a center takes the the whole case in point.

Trying to nickle dime a GM in a bad spot is exactly what other GM's should be doing. Are the Peg going to add in future considerations for the Pens doing them a solid?

Holly crap batman.... You never know what they'll take if you don't push the envelope.

Some GM's know how to push and make those deals. This is a GM that gave up a 1st and a bunch of crap to get EK at 10.0 x 4 at 33 years old.

I don't know, I'm not much of giving like to like when the other guy has no pull.

Maybe you shouldn't say "McGroarty has to be as good as Guentzel" if that's not what you meant, because you literally said "McGroarty would have to be at Jake levels" here:

McGroarty would have to be at Jake levels to wash away Yager's center attribute. A mere 20G/20A - 40/50 point winger isn't going to cut it if Yager is remotely the same to better at center. For one, you can move forward with Yager as one of the top 2 center positions, McGroarty would need such a center in a few years they likely won't have with all of them aging out. Which brings that position all the more important moving forward. Openings both at 2C/3C. 1C a mere year after that.

If Yager only ends up another Sutter caliber guy, which is entirely reasonable considering their play styles and where each was drafted, it's ridiculous to say "McGroarty has to end up as good as Guentzel because Yager plays center".

I think you're just super overrating Yager. He's not a guarantee to stick at center in the first place and his upside at center only seems to be a 2C caliber guy. I don't think McGroarty's upside is that higher than that, but I don't think of Yager as having this super high upside that the Penguins will somehow regret trading him. They clearly win the trade if McGroarty ends up Guentzel 2.0.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Maybe you shouldn't say "McGroarty has to be as good as Guentzel" if that's not what you meant, because you literally said "McGroarty would have to be at Jake levels" here:



If Yager only ends up another Sutter caliber guy, which is entirely reasonable considering their play styles and where each was drafted, it's ridiculous to say "McGroarty has to end up as good as Guentzel because Yager plays center".

I think you're just super overrating Yager. He's not a guarantee to stick at center in the first place and his upside at center only seems to be a 2C caliber guy. I don't think McGroarty's upside is that higher than that, but I don't think of Yager as having this super high upside that the Penguins will somehow regret trading him. They clearly win the trade if McGroarty ends up Guentzel 2.0.

That's because both were top six and Yager being the center, yes, he'll need to be Guenzel good to be rated higher than Yager.

Keep up with the program.

Edit: And my entire point is the Pens should have both. END////

Double Edit: You are about just as many if not more insane "IF's"...

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I think guys like Aho and Kral are playing right defense tonight to see if we have enough RD depth in case we have to start the season without Karlsson. This is probably a good development for Brunicke. Pickering playing tonight probably means he is headed to the AHL, which is what was always expected. Unlike McGroarty, I think Pickering needs some AHL time.

I like the potential of a McGroarty-K. Hayes-Puljujarvi line. I think Hayes is a better playmaker than Eller. If it does not work, we can always flip-flop.

That said, Puustinen needs a huge game tonight or else he is a goner. Sad but true. Poulin is already a goner. It would be really bad if we lost two forwards for nothing. We cannot afford that. I am certain that if we waived Glass and Beauvillier, they would clear. But we won't do that. That is not what this team does. This team loves its middling players that lack untapped upside, and love dumping players with untapped upside.

Sullivan is probably preparing for Nieto to play on that Eller-Acciari line, which would suck. And Lizotte is probably going to take McGroarty's spot when healthy.

So let's enjoy these games with actual upside in the lineup.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

That's because both were top six and Yager being the center, yes, he'll need to be Guenzel good to be rated higher than Yager.

Keep up with the program.

Edit: And my entire point is the Pens should have both. END////

Yeah, I am with you here.

As for Brayden Yager, everyone here HOPES he turns into Brandon Sutter. I think he could become another Nick Suzuki.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That's because both were top six and Yager being the center, yes, he'll need to be Guenzel good to be rated higher than Yager.

Keep up with the program.

Edit: And my entire point is the Pens should have both. END////

My point is that saying McGroarty has to be this massively better player than Yager because "Yager plays center" is stupid. If Yager ends up a 50 point 2C, McGroarty doesn't need to be Jake Guentzel 2.0 to be better than that. A 50 point 2C is roughly equal to a 60 point winger, you're grossly exaggerating how good McGroarty needs to be if Yager pans out. This isn't even touching on the discussion about Yager possibly not sticking at center, either.

And again, there is no situation where the Penguins could have gotten both. Just repeating it over and over again doesn't magically make it true. Winnipeg would simply have held onto him and let him go back to Michigan over trading him for pennies on the dollar.

That said, Puustinen needs a huge game tonight or else he is a goner. Sad but true. Poulin is already a goner. It would be really bad if we lost two forwards for nothing. We cannot afford that. I am certain that if we waived Glass and Beauvillier, they would clear. But we won't do that. That is not what this team does. This team loves its middling players that lack untapped upside, and love dumping players with untapped upside.

Sullivan is probably preparing for Nieto to play on that Eller-Acciari line, which would suck. And Lizotte is probably going to take McGroarty's spot when healthy.

So let's enjoy these games with actual upside in the lineup.

Poulin isn't getting claimed off waivers because he sucks. Puustinen is a real risk but Poulin looks like an absolute dud at this point.

He needs more AHL time to develop if they are to get anything out of him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah, I am with you here.

As for Brayden Yager, everyone here HOPES he turns into Brandon Sutter. I think he could become another Nick Suzuki.

No, I think everyone here doesn't care about how Yager pans out and they just want McGroarty to pan out. The only reason Yager is even brought up is because people want to whine about trading him for McGroarty, as if it was possible to have both Yager and McGroarty.

If McGroarty ends up legit, no one here is going to care about trading Yager for him. The only people that will care about that trade are people who have been complaining about the trade since it was made.

All of this Yager talk is even more pointless when you realize that Winnipeg already sent him back to the WHL:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1840427150995808373

 

[Ugene Magic]

If Yager ends up a William Karlsson clone, the idea that McGroarty has to end up a Guentzel clone for the Penguins to "win" that deal is just dumb. Guentzel is a borderline top-10 winger in hockey while Karlsson is just a good 2C. Guentzel is clearly and obviously the better player between the two.

And again, there is no situation where the Penguins could have gotten both. Just repeating it over and over again doesn't magically make it true. Winnipeg would simply have held onto him and let him go back to Michigan over trading him for pennies on the dollar.

Just stop dude, I never brought McGroarty down to Sutter levels to prove a point. Not only that, but he had to play behind Sid/Geno compared to moving to 2c in Carolina. It was a poor comparison.

Just stop. Full stop with the stupidity.

Just because STUPbas was dumb enough to trade like to like doesn't make what you are saying true. The Peg holding onto Rutger wasn't going to get better the longer they held onto him. His value was only going to sink the longer it played out. Nobody was coming calling with a better/similar offer.

I miss the days where the Pens actually won trades, took advantage of other GM's/teams plight.

Maybe you should go sing Kumbaya with the Peg board. JR. really soften up the place.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't think I can give any response here that won't get me infracted for flaming, so I'm just going to let it be

Yager doesn't matter anymore, if you're that heartbroken about him being traded, go become a Jets fan or something. Idk what to tell you, I'll just hope that McGroarty ends up becoming as good as he seems he could be, and I'm not at all upset that the Penguins traded what they viewed as an inferior prospect for a better prospect. If they like McGroarty more than Yager, it was a no-brainer move.