GDT: 2024-2025 Training Camp

[Ugene Magic]

They will never admit it and will speak to the opposite— but they clearly didn’t love what they saw from Yager over the course of a year and liked McGroarty more.

The overall thing is, if McGroarty doesn't make the NHL faster and hits his projection 2025/26 and Yager makes it then too, and out performs Rutger only proves how out of touch they are.

Like, back in the day, Shero would have been all over this and won the trade giving up Pickering and a 2nd, or the like.

This was more like what JR. being fair was like.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I imagine the two biggest factors to Dubas were style of play and perceived readiness when making that trade. I think Yager and Groats are roughly the same tier of prospect but play a very different game. That style of game along with his physical attributes and being one year older all add up to the FO feeling Groats was a better FIT for the team and what they want to do moving forward.

I might not agree with some of that or really most of it. But it comes from a perfectly logical place and I can't dump on Dubas too much for taking that shot. Especially when there is so much more I could criticize him for lol

 

[eXile3]

Nor were they in a position to ask for, Yager. I think he was given up than was hasten to offer up other alternatives.

I don't think you understand the position they were in.

The better for us "is still under review".

I think it’s more likely they had a prospect that didn’t want to play there so they shopped him to the best bidder. The organization, like a lot of others, saw Groats as the better prospect.

Correct, we do not know who will be better in the long run. That’s incalculable but you make the best decision you can with the information you have at that time.

I’m sure all GMs want something for nothing but there’s another guy on the other end trying to do best by their own team.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I think it’s more likely they had a prospect that didn’t want to play there so they shopped him to the best bidder. The organization, like a lot of others, saw Groats as the better prospect.

Correct, we do not know who will be better in the long run. That’s incalculable but you make the best decision you can with the information you have at that time.

I’m sure all GMs want something for nothing but there’s another guy on the other end trying to do best by their own team.

I'm pretty sure all the others were lowball bidding like they should.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I mean... it COULD blow up in the team's face. That's been the way of things in the last few years.

But Groats HAS consistently looked like one of the team's best nine forwards all training camp and preseason basically as soon as he walked through the door. That's not nothing.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I imagine the two biggest factors to Dubas were style of play and perceived readiness when making that trade. I think Yager and Groats are roughly the same tier of prospect but play a very different game. That style of game along with his physical attributes and being one year older all add up to the FO feeling Groats was a better FIT for the team and what they want to do moving forward.

I might not agree with some of that or really most of it. But it comes from a perfectly logical place and I can't dump on Dubas too much for taking that shot. Especially when there is so much more I could criticize him for lol

It was the way to make the LW better in the short term.

In 5 to 10 years we can compare the careers but for a right now trade where we traded up the prospect ranked ladder and got the more ready player. It was a W. A small W but a W.

He's looked good in the games. Send him to the AHL to play some games against men. Come back to the NHL after some injuries and I think he sticks after that.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It was the way to make the LW better in the short term.

In 5 to 10 years we can compare the careers but for a right now trade where we traded up the prospect ranked ladder and got the more ready player. It was a W. A small W but a W.

He's looked good in the games. Send him to the AHL to play some games against men. Come back to the NHL after some injuries and I think he sticks after that.

I think that he's "earned" a job out of camp. But at the same time I also think the AHL is the perfect place for him to work on some things especially offensively that could REALLY smooth out some of the rough edges to his game. Even half a year down there for him getting confidence and building his offensive game could make a big difference to how dynamic of a player he ends up being.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

The overall thing is, if McGroarty doesn't make the NHL faster and hits his projection 2025/26 and Yager makes it then too, and out performs Rutger only proves how out of touch they are.

Like, back in the day, Shero would have been all over this and won the trade giving up Pickering and a 2nd, or the like.

This was more like what JR. being fair was like.

If Yager ends up better, which is possible, think they got the evaluation of one or both guys wrong. Which is a separate (and legitimately worrisome issue). I don’t think it means they they are out of touch and behind the 8 ball though.

Regardless of how it ends up I do respect it. You thought one guy was better and you did what it took to get him. Lot easier to put your head in sand and convince yourself Yager will be better than he’s shown if you are slightly underwhelmed one year into him being in your system.

 

[eXile3]

I'm pretty sure all the others were lowball bidding like they should.

Just curious to what gives you that confidence?

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I think that he's "earned" a job out of camp. But at the same time I also think the AHL is the perfect place for him to work on some things especially offensively that could REALLY smooth out some of the rough edges to his game. Even half a year down there for him getting confidence and building his offensive game could make a big difference to how dynamic of a player he ends up being.

He is a top 4 LW on this team. I'd rather him get 20 minutes a night in the A to solve some things against the 2nd best competition in the world (okay maybe 3rd) then come up.

We agree he earned a spot but with being waiver eligible it makes sense to send down for a bit.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I think that he's "earned" a job out of camp. But at the same time I also think the AHL is the perfect place for him to work on some things especially offensively that could REALLY smooth out some of the rough edges to his game. Even half a year down there for him getting confidence and building his offensive game could make a big difference to how dynamic of a player he ends up being.

Yeah I completely agree. He’d be fine in top 9 right now but it’s likely “safer” move to slow cook him some

I probably sound repetitive AF but he needs to improve his core strength and hands

Physical stuff will have to be time + offseason

Hands will also need time, hard work and maturity to improve. BUT more touches and minutes in AHL should help there. I don’t think 3-6 months of AHL magically makes his hands better, but I do think just in terms of rhythm and confidence it could be beneficial like you say.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah I completely agree.

I probably sound repetitive AF but he needs to improve his core strength and hands

Physical stuff will have to be time + offseason

Hands will also need time, hard work and maturity to improve. BUT more touches and minutes in AHL should help there. I don’t think 3-6 months of AHL magically makes his hands better, but I do think just in terms of rhythm and confidence it could be beneficial like you say.

Exactly. This is bang on.

To my mind the AHL is the perfect place for him to work on the things we're talking about... strength and hands/offense. He can get huge minutes/role there and build confidence by trying some things and like you said... get his rhythm and timing sharp. He's already mostly there I think but I can tell his offensive ceiling could be higher with a little work.

A recall around midway or a little past through the year not out of question, either.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

And not to keep going on about Yager/McGroarty or bag on Poulin

But since it is now clear (and I know the guy who drafted him was two GMs ago) they don’t love and never loved Poulin, they should’ve traded him in ‘20 after he blew apart the Q. Whether for a prospect or an NHL player.

Hence why I respect the idea of the Yager for McGroarty move. Instead of convincing yourself things will improve with time you make an actionable move based on todays facts.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Just curious to what gives you that confidence?

Because other teams had better #1 prospects and they did not give them up.

I'm saying, yes, Dubas was bidding against himself. The Peg were beside themselves at the offer of Yager.

 

[The Old Master]

Just curious to what gives you that confidence?

human nature

 

[McGroarty2]

If Yager ends up better, which is possible, think they got the evaluation of one or both guys wrong. Which is a separate (and legitimately worrisome issue). I don’t think it means they they are out of touch and behind the 8 ball though.

Regardless of how it ends up I do respect it. You thought one guy was better and you did what it took to get him. Lot easier to put your head in sand and convince yourself Yager will be better than he’s shown if you are slightly underwhelmed one year into him being in your system.

True but I see it as a Neal for Hornqvist type trade. Give up better skilled player for one that bleeds for his team more.

 

[Ulf5]

Because other teams had better #1 prospects and they did not give them up.

I'm saying, yes, Dubas was bidding against himself. The Peg were beside themselves at the offer of Yager.

I'm sure that's partly true. But the part that seems to get glossed over is that Winnipeg could've held McGroarty's rights for quite awhile yet. 2 years I believe? A half-assed offer wasn't going to get it done.
Another thing I think Dubas prefers in McGroarty is a more well-rounded game.
He's already a proven leader as captain on multiple teams. And he's a more physical player that will definitely get his nose dirty.
If NHL production turns out close, McGroarty will likely always have the edge.

 

[Empoleon8771]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1841850761136779632

I’m honestly really hoping that they start the year with that McGroarty-Hayes-Puljujarvi line. Hayes isn’t what he once was, but his track record makes me really think that line could do damage offensively.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Not saying he’s cooked or anything long term but Korchinski a good example of why I’d prefer to send Brunicke back to junior

 

[Ugene Magic]

I'm sure that's partly true. But the part that seems to get glossed over is that Winnipeg could've held McGroarty's rights for quite awhile yet. 2 years I believe? A half-assed offer wasn't going to get it done.
Another thing I think Dubas prefers in McGroarty is a more well-rounded game.
He's already a proven leader as captain on multiple teams. And he's a more physical player that will definitely get his nose dirty.
If NHL production turns out close, McGroarty will likely always have the edge.

What purpose does that serve them? They end up with a player sitting at home wasting away and still get even less crap for him.

Let's not forget McGroarty wasn't even the Pegs #1 prospect, but Yager was clearly the Pens. The Peg could afford to wait if they wanted to, but Yager brings a better much more desirable center attribute timeline for them. (the Pens as well) McGroarty is obviously seen as a winger both there and here. So that ups the value a good bit in Yager's favor. So being close in NHL production isn't the same. Center>>>wing every single day. Center's are hard to come by and they just gave up a good potential one.

McGroarty would have to be at Jake levels to wash away Yager's center attribute. A mere 20G/20A - 40/50 point winger isn't going to cut it if Yager is remotely the same to better at center. For one, you can move forward with Yager as one of the top 2 center positions, McGroarty would need such a center in a few years they likely won't have with all of them aging out. Which brings that position all the more important moving forward. Openings both at 2C/3C. 1C a mere year after that.

McGroarty would seriously have to fast track to be anything remotely useful in Sid/Geno's final years together. Right now, that's 2 seasons.

Right now people are already slotting him as Sid's LW this year. That's just not how it works normally.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

That article reminds me of my own description of Mike Sullivan hockey; sucking the joy out of my favorite sport.

 

[Andy99]

I think giving up Yager was a mistake so I can only guess that the organization didn’t think he’d become a top six center…that’s all I can think of…his offensive shooting skill is much higher, his speed is better and plays a more valuable position…you don’t give that up unless you think he’s not going to make it in the NHL or only be a bottom six player…

Hopefully McG develops into a top six player with 60+-point production…that’s the only thing that justifies the exchange

 

[Gurglesons]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1841850761136779632

I’m honestly really hoping that they start the year with that McGroarty-Hayes-Puljujarvi line. Hayes isn’t what he once was, but his track record makes me really think that line could do damage offensively.

Seems like Rust is dinged up too.

I think giving up Yager was a mistake so I can only guess that the organization didn’t think he’d become a top six center…that’s all I can think of…his offensive shooting skill is much higher, his speed is better and plays a more valuable position…you don’t give that up unless you think he’s not going to make it in the NHL or only be a bottom six player…

Hopefully McG develops into a top six player with 60+-point production…that’s the only thing that justifies the exchange

Something was up with Yager taking so long to sign his ELC.

People are fooling themselves into Yager being some elite prospect. When he comes to the Jets system he’ll be similar to MCG.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Seems like Rust is dinged up too.

Wow what a shocker.

This guy makes Malkin look like an ironman.

One of the biggest reasons I hope they move on when they can. Dude seems like he averages like 55 games a year.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Can we wait until November until we bitch about the same things we always do?

Sure, no problem. Remind me in a month.