Rumor: 2024-2025 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Talk | The Slow Crawl to the Season

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

So signing Kadri would be a mistake because he’s older and past his prime. But signing Manson, who was 30 and had an extensive injury history made sense because he filled a certain role? I understand letting Kadri go, but for the same reasons people didn’t want to bring Kadri back is the close enough to the same reasoning Manson shouldn’t have been brought back.

I think it was all a mistake and the Avs should've just started the rebuild the second that cup was lifted.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

I think it was all a mistake and the Avs should've just started the rebuild the second that cup was lifted.

IMO, we should’ve started the rebuild before game 6 and called up the Eagles roster to close out the SCF.

 

[Avs_19]

When the heck did Calle Rosen return?

 

[Deadsy]

When the heck did Calle Rosen return?

July 1st.

 

[Pokecheque]

Yes, a Kadri re-sign would have been problematic on its own, obviously no one expected him to repeat his stellar career year and that deal would've aged like milk left outside. It just irritates me to no end that there was no Plan B whatsoever. They just threw up their hands and said "Eh, we'll just go with center-by-committee (again) and figure it out at the deadline," which of course they didn't.

And I don't believe for a second that the Avs truly believed Newhook would evolve into a viable #2 center. At least the coaches had to have known at that point. If management didn't, then they were either deluding themselves or are even worse at talent evaluation than I feared.

It's just stupid to me that the team won a Cup and followed up their title defense by failing to shore up the very weakness that, when addressed, directly led to their first championship in over 20 years.

Again, getting Manson was a great idea. Keeping him was not.

 

[henchman21]

Yes, a Kadri re-sign would have been problematic on its own, obviously no one expected him to repeat his stellar career year and that deal would've aged like milk left outside. It just irritates me to no end that there was no Plan B whatsoever. They just threw up their hands and said "Eh, we'll just go with center-by-committee (again) and figure it out at the deadline," which of course they didn't.

And I don't believe for a second that the Avs truly believed Newhook would evolve into a viable #2 center. At least the coaches had to have known at that point. If management didn't, then they were either deluding themselves or are even worse at talent evaluation than I feared.

It's just stupid to me that the team won a Cup and followed up their title defense by failing to shore up the very weakness that, when addressed, directly led to their first championship in over 20 years.

Again, getting Manson was a great idea. Keeping him was not.

This.

The title defense was an abysmal effort. IMO the Avs approached it like "we'll have 6 kicks at this can, so we don't need to go hard after 2023." Which is how teams end up wasting away what they have left. The management gave it a great effort last season and tried... it just didn't work for various reasons. I fault that less. But even the most generous realize the time is ticking now.

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

Handful is 5 unless you've been playing with fireworks or have a family tree that doesn't branch. In the world of availability of players 1-2 a year is a completely different realm than 5 a year. So it is twisting it quite a bit.

I've always stated you can get players, it just takes a willingness to pay the price. The Avs were not willing to pay the price for a long time, eventually they relented. Prior to trading Byram, I stated fairly often that he was the piece to use for that trade because he had the combo of expendability and value. Many scoffed at that idea. The Avs could have solved the 2C issue right after keeping Manson by trading Byram then. None of this would be talked about because they would have addressed the 2C spot immediately and not waited 1.5 seasons to do so.

The 2C spot is the primary issue. Avs thought they could buck history and cheap out on that spot. Which you can find a few times where it has happened. But generally (like 90++% of the time) you need to be strong down the middle in the NHL to contend for Cups. In the end, the Avs agreed. It just took them a while.

I am baffled that people are 100% okay with how the Avs approached things since the Cup. I don't blame them for last season as much. From where they were after 22-23 and the pieces they had... They tried and it just didn't work. 22-23 was a pretty epic failure that put 23-24 behind the curve, maybe to a point where it isn't recoverable for this core. If the Avs only win 1 Cup with this core, the 2022 offseason will be one of the largest reasons why.

A handful doesn't mean 5. It is not a representation of the number of fingers in a hand... It is a representation of a small quantity that fits in the palm of a hand, being synonymous to "a few". Using "a few", "a handful", "some" isn't twisting your words at all...

The Avs were without a 2C for one playoff run, which anyway was derailed by the absence of Landeskog and Nishuchkin. They wouldn't have won the cup that year anyway. The 2nd year they had Mitts. And I would argue that they are in a better position now with Mitts signed at $5.75M for 3 years than they would have been with Kadri at $7M for 5 more years...

I have been saying and agreeing from Day 1 that the Avs f***ed-up the trade deadline in Year 1 because they were supposed to acquire a 2C. Their failure has cost them a shot that year, which turned-out to be that they had no shot anyway because of Landeskog and Nichushkin. It still doesn't change the fact that they messed-up that trade deadline.

But they had their 2C in Year 2. So the Kadri decision isn't what will define the result of this team for the 5 years following that summer... It is the Landeskog injury 1st, then it is the Nichushkin debacle second. I would argue EJ refusing to waive comes before the Kadri decision... Then you can maybe get an argument about whether its Kadri or a handful of other elements are next in line.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

IMO, we should’ve started the rebuild before game 6 and called up the Eagles roster to close out the SCF.

Now that's commitment to the future!

 

[henchman21]

A handful doesn't mean 5. It is not a representation of the number of fingers in a hand... It is a representation of a small quantity that fits in the palm of a hand, being synonymous to "a few". Using "a few", "a handful", "some" isn't twisting your words at all...

The Avs were without a 2C for one playoff run, which anyway was derailed by the absence of Landeskog and Nishuchkin. They wouldn't have won the cup that year anyway. The 2nd year they had Mitts. And I would argue that they are in a better position now with Mitts signed at $5.75M for 3 years than they would have been with Kadri at $7M for 5 more years...

I have been saying and agreeing from Day 1 that the Avs f***ed-up the trade deadline in Year 1 because they were supposed to acquire a 2C. Their failure has cost them a shot that year, which turned-out to be that they had no shot anyway because of Landeskog and Nichushkin. It still doesn't change the fact that they messed-up that trade deadline.

But they had their 2C in Year 2. So the Kadri decision isn't what will define the result of this team for the 5 years following that summer... It is the Landeskog injury 1st, then it is the Nichushkin debacle second. I would argue EJ refusing to waive comes before the Kadri decision... Then you can maybe get an argument about whether its Kadri or a handful of other elements are next in line.

You have a background of twisting words, even clear sarcasm, to fit a gotcha sort of narrative that you create. 1-2 or a couple... accurate. Handful is, IMO, being deceitful. Given your history, I would say it is purposeful.

They had their 2C for a deadline push. Not the whole year. Which leads to different issues. It is a key position that is not nearly as easily able to be transitioned in at the end. Mitts played great, especially in the playoffs. But he did cost a key asset that if wasn't still here could have been utilized elsewhere. It isn't just Manson for Kadri, it is the extranous that is impacted to. Namely having to utilize Byram to get Mitts (and a 1st to get rid of RyJo).

Kadri isn't what will define. It will be the Avs lack of aggressiveness to fill their lineup weaknesses. They are far too willing to wait on young players to take over roles, when those young players are questionable to even fill those roles.

 

[Toothless Legend]

You have a background of twisting words, even clear sarcasm, to fit a gotcha sort of narrative that you create. 1-2 or a couple... accurate. Handful is, IMO, being deceitful. Given your history, I would say it is purposeful.

They had their 2C for a deadline push. Not the whole year. Which leads to different issues. It is a key position that is not nearly as easily able to be transitioned in at the end. Mitts played great, especially in the playoffs. But he did cost a key asset that if wasn't still here could have been utilized elsewhere. It isn't just Manson for Kadri, it is the extranous that is impacted to. Namely having to utilize Byram to get Mitts (and a 1st to get rid of RyJo).

Kadri isn't what will define. It will be the Avs lack of aggressiveness to fill their lineup weaknesses. They are far too willing to wait on young players to take over roles, when those young players are questionable to even fill those roles.

...and the 2nd used to get Eller

 

[The Abusement Park]

A handful doesn't mean 5. It is not a representation of the number of fingers in a hand... It is a representation of a small quantity that fits in the palm of a hand, being synonymous to "a few". Using "a few", "a handful", "some" isn't twisting your words at all...

The Avs were without a 2C for one playoff run, which anyway was derailed by the absence of Landeskog and Nishuchkin. They wouldn't have won the cup that year anyway. The 2nd year they had Mitts. And I would argue that they are in a better position now with Mitts signed at $5.75M for 3 years than they would have been with Kadri at $7M for 5 more years...

I have been saying and agreeing from Day 1 that the Avs f***ed-up the trade deadline in Year 1 because they were supposed to acquire a 2C. Their failure has cost them a shot that year, which turned-out to be that they had no shot anyway because of Landeskog and Nichushkin. It still doesn't change the fact that they messed-up that trade deadline.

But they had their 2C in Year 2. So the Kadri decision isn't what will define the result of this team for the 5 years following that summer... It is the Landeskog injury 1st, then it is the Nichushkin debacle second. I would argue EJ refusing to waive comes before the Kadri decision... Then you can maybe get an argument about whether its Kadri or a handful of other elements are next in line.

I mean chances are the Avs don’t win the cup down Landy/Nuke, but that was already the case with no 2C. If they had a Kadri/Mitts guy at 2C like they should’ve they would’ve at least won a round or two. The crux of the whole situation is that the FO couldn’t have handled the post cup win seasons any worse. Last year was a step in the right direction but because of how they mishandled the 22/23 season they had to use a pretty major asset to fix the hole they ignored.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

This.

The title defense was an abysmal effort. IMO the Avs approached it like "we'll have 6 kicks at this can, so we don't need to go hard after 2023." Which is how teams end up wasting away what they have left. The management gave it a great effort last season and tried... it just didn't work for various reasons. I fault that less. But even the most generous realize the time is ticking now.

I still blame our team doctors for not giving the GM a clear pathforward regarding landeskog. If we had known he'd be LTIR for all of reg season, the kadri deal would have been signed and we'd try to figure it out later.

 

[dahrougem2]

I still blame our team doctors for not giving the GM a clear pathforward regarding landeskog. If we had known he'd be LTIR for all of reg season, the kadri deal would have been signed and we'd try to figure it out later.

What on earth do team doctors have to do with Landeskog trying and failing to come back all of 22-23?

 

[S E P H]

When the heck did Calle Rosen return?

After he accomplished his mission?

 

[Avs_19]

After he accomplished his mission?

Mission **** Binnington.

 

[henchman21]

Mission **** Binnington.

Even his wife doesn’t want to do that.

 

[missionAvs]

Handful is 5 unless you've been playing with fireworks or have a family tree that doesn't branch.

I counted my fingers.

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

You have a background of twisting words, even clear sarcasm, to fit a gotcha sort of narrative that you create. 1-2 or a couple... accurate. Handful is, IMO, being deceitful. Given your history, I would say it is purposeful.

That's a creative take... I used proper terminology, you applied a wrong definition, and I'm the one twisting words... OK.

I don't have a background of twisting words. If anything, I have a background of highlighting people moving goalposts. Probably coming from the famous "window closing with Mack's contract" debate.

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

I mean chances are the Avs don’t win the cup down Landy/Nuke, but that was already the case with no 2C. If they had a Kadri/Mitts guy at 2C like they should’ve they would’ve at least won a round or two. The crux of the whole situation is that the FO couldn’t have handled the post cup win seasons any worse. Last year was a step in the right direction but because of how they mishandled the 22/23 season they had to use a pretty major asset to fix the hole they ignored.

I agree with that. My point is that their failure was at the deadline. Not necessarily the Kadri decision. They had to choose between Kadri or Manson + another player to make it fit under the cap. Whichever one they would have chosen would have created a hole needing to be fixed at the deadline. They failed to address that hole at the deadline, resulting in a lost season. They fixed it the following season, with a greater cost attached to it.

But I'm pretty sure that if they had kept Kadri at $7M, had let Manson go, had let others go for the cap (Girard? Because ERod alone wasn't going to be enough, that's a false narrative. His $2M is barely $1.2M above minimum salary when you need to cover $2.5M (over replacement cost)), there would have been similar repercussions. Meaning that it would have come down to making the right moves at the deadline to cover these different holes.

The epic failure was at the deadline, not the Kadri decision IMO.

 

[RockLobster]

When the heck did Calle Rosen return?

Or...did he never really leave?

 

[henchman21]

That's a creative take... I used proper terminology, you applied a wrong definition, and I'm the one twisting words... OK.

I don't have a background of twisting words. If anything, I have a background of highlighting people moving goalposts. Probably coming from the famous "window closing with Mack's contract" debate.

It never means one… unless a person is being a handful. You’re taking a number that is very low and tweaking it up. It is clearly intentional on your part here.

You do have a history of this stuff. You can’t call it moving goalposts when you deliberately misrepresent what people say.

Funny enough on that MacK contract… the Avs haven’t been close since the extension kicked in and it is a large factor why they couldn’t afford both…

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Or...did he never really leave?

Prime suspect for who was cutting tiny little holes in the Ball Arena shower walls.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Mission **** Binnington.

Put Rosen's jersey in the rafters just for that.

 

[AslanRH]

 

[The Abusement Park]

I agree with that. My point is that their failure was at the deadline. Not necessarily the Kadri decision. They had to choose between Kadri or Manson + another player to make it fit under the cap. Whichever one they would have chosen would have created a hole needing to be fixed at the deadline. They failed to address that hole at the deadline, resulting in a lost season. They fixed it the following season, with a greater cost attached to it.

But I'm pretty sure that if they had kept Kadri at $7M, had let Manson go, had let others go for the cap (Girard? Because ERod alone wasn't going to be enough, that's a false narrative. His $2M is barely $1.2M above minimum salary when you need to cover $2.5M (over replacement cost)), there would have been similar repercussions. Meaning that it would have come down to making the right moves at the deadline to cover these different holes.

The epic failure was at the deadline, not the Kadri decision IMO.

The failure itself wasn’t not re signing Kadri. Realistically not re signing Kadri was probably the right move. But almost every move they made after that was a complete failure from a roster composition standpoint. Moving on from Kadri is fine if you want to not spend the money/term on someone his age, but not addressing a major position like the 2C signals you aren’t contending whether they meant that or not.

They had the assets to fill that hole, didn’t and because of that had to had use a far more major asset than they wanted or needed to.

The deadline was 100% a failure, but leaving such a major position to fill for the deadline is just an unnecessary choice they made. Again the deadline was a failure, but they could’ve made it so much easier on themselves by filling the C role first and replacing Manson at the deadline which would’ve been far cheaper and easier to do.