Rumor: 2024-2025 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Talk | The Slow Crawl to the Season

[henchman21]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1824099700686889213

DC is a good place to freebase.

 

[Balthazar]

I have to wonder if these will be in future negotiations between the league and players. There's gotta be a desire from some people to encourage more and they're certainly a win for the players. I feel like there's a problem in them becoming cost prohibitive at the higher stages. Maybe 3 1sts instead of 4 or allowing substitution of firsts you don't originally own would help open things up.

You're thinking like a fan.

If you were a GM you too would rather keep good relationships with other GM's/teams. I bet the Blues won't call the Oilers to make a trade anytime soon now.

If you put me in trouble by offer sheeting my RFA's not only I'm seeking revenge but I'm not going to help you in the future that's for sure. Also if the owner is pissed off enough by your move you might have just closed a door for future employment.

 

[Pokecheque]

You're thinking like a fan.

If you were a GM you too would rather keep good relationships with other GM's/teams. I bet the Blues won't call the Oilers to make a trade anytime soon now.

If you put me in trouble by offer sheeting my RFA's not only I'm seeking revenge but I'm not going to help you in the future that's for sure. Also if the owner is pissed off enough by your move you might have just closed a door for future employment.

Honestly, if GMs are pearl-clutchers of this caliber (and I don't rule out that possibility) then they should do away with offer sheets entirely. Absolutely ridiculous. The offer sheet exists as a way to aggressively improve your team AND a means to trip up your competitors. It should be used with caution, yes, but there shouldn't be so many idiotic unwritten rules appended to them. Just imagine if the previous Florida GMs had been allowed to carry out their plans and they had signed Kucherov away via offer sheet from the Bolts. That would have been a total game-changer.

If I were a GM and someone offer sheeted one of my guys, it wouldn't affect my relationship with that GM. I should've gotten that RFA signed beforehand. I'm certainly not going to make some dumb revenge offer sheet out of spite that will likely backfire spectacularly (re: Kotkaniemi).

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

You're thinking like a fan.

If you were a GM you too would rather keep good relationships with other GM's/teams. I bet the Blues won't call the Oilers to make a trade anytime soon now.

If you put me in trouble by offer sheeting my RFA's not only I'm seeking revenge but I'm not going to help you in the future that's for sure. Also if the owner is pissed off enough by your move you might have just closed a door for future employment.

Not exactly. Not every GM is going to be friendly with each other. And some will want more aggressive rules than others. I doubt it's a majority, but I do wonder if there's a loud enough minority that it would ever get easier to have offersheets. The players would clearly be in favor.

I'm sure what you're saying is why it hasn't happened yet. Just wonder if it could change.

You see this all the time in business, people are friendly until it no longer benefits them to be.

 

[Chileiceman]

Everyone needs to get past the offer sheet panic. Even as an Avs fan, if someone were to offer sheet one of our RFA's, my attitude would be hey it's just part of the game. It sucks, but I wouldn't hold ill will towards that GM. (FTR I don't recall my feelings about ROR's ofersheet at the time, but that was a long time ago now). I'd love to see the Avs try to offersheet someone if it made sense to do so.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Everyone needs to get past the offer sheet panic. Even as an Avs fan, if someone were to offer sheet one of our RFA's, my attitude would be hey it's just part of the game. It sucks, but I wouldn't hold ill will towards that GM. (FTR I don't recall my feelings about ROR's ofersheet at the time, but that was a long time ago now). I'd love to see the Avs try to offersheet someone if it made sense to do so.

Avs fans should embrace offer sheets at least as much as Joe Sakic did. What's puzzling to me is that Sakic the player loved offer sheets and signed the only one he ever got. But he never used one as a GM.

 

[Balthazar]

If I were a GM and someone offer sheeted one of my guys, it wouldn't affect my relationship with that GM. I should've gotten that RFA signed beforehand.

When players are UFA they hold all the cards but when they are RFA teams have some negotiating power. All the GM's know how important it is to have a player under team control, by offer sheeting a guy it changes the balance of power and they (GM's) ultimately shoot themselves in the foot.

Fun fact: in French an offer sheet is called "offre hostile" (hostile offer).

 

[Pokecheque]

There's no ill will remaining between the Flames and Avs over the ROR offer sheet (and frankly I'm grateful they did it because I'm not sure how much longer that interminable situation would've continued otherwise). That whole mess ended up costing both GMs their jobs IIRC, especially since it was revealed that if the Flames had succeeded, he would've had to go on waivers before reporting to Calgary.

 

[henchman21]

It is just an unwritten rule to not offer sheet. it really started after the mess that the 90s made of them. Poison pill stuff and absurd bonuses (IIRC Fedorov made like 28m one year because of one). When the new CBA came in and UFA age was lowered, it was basically unwritten that you don't F with another team's RFA. Doesn't mean it won't happen, but they aren't just tossed around.

I'd argue though that it makes a ton of sense to offersheet players. IE right now, teams could go after Harley on a 5 year 6.8m deal and it would make a ton of sense. He's a legit top pairing guy in his prime, who may progress to a #1. If you can get that for a 1st and 3rd, you'd be crazy not to. Now Dallas would likely match, but it would put them in a bind. Doing the same for Seider to 8.5-9m also makes a ton of sense. Seider for a 1st + 2nd + 3rd is a no brainer. On the lower end, take Tomasino... 2.2m gets you a young player that has flashed top 6 skill, played at a very high level in the AHL... and for a 3rd. You're paying young player 3rd line money and only giving up a 3rd for a kid with upside. Now they'd probably all get matched, but a worthy risks to take for talent.

 

[Pokecheque]

When players are UFA they hold all the cards but when they are RFA teams have some negotiating power. All the GM's know how important it is to have a player under team control, by offer sheeting a guy it changes the balance of power and they (GM's) ultimately shoot themselves in the foot.

Frankly owners and their front offices need to change their perceptions entirely when it comes to this. It's UFA megadeals that almost always result in a GM shooting themselves in the foot, not RFA deals. And players have (rightfully) pushed for better contracts at the RFA stage because that's when they're in their prime years. Third contracts are almost always a mistake.

More teams should do what the Bolts did with Stamkos, put sentiment aside and realize that a guy well into his 30s who's already on a decline should not get a long-term deal. Let him get his money somewhere else.

If owners and GMs continue this anachronistic view of RFA deals like Dundon and the Canes and Jarmo and the Jackets have, then they're simply not going to be successful. And really, offer sheets and the fear of their use should spur teams to get their shit done quickly instead of these long, drawn out negotiation processes.

 

[Balthazar]

I'd argue though that it makes a ton of sense to offersheet players. IE right now, teams could go after Harley on a 5 year 6.8m deal and it would make a ton of sense. He's a legit top pairing guy in his prime, who may progress to a #1. If you can get that for a 1st and 3rd, you'd be crazy not to. Now Dallas would likely match, but it would put them in a bind. Doing the same for Seider to 8.5-9m also makes a ton of sense. Seider for a 1st + 2nd + 3rd is a no brainer. On the lower end, take Tomasino... 2.2m gets you a young player that has flashed top 6 skill, played at a very high level in the AHL... and for a 3rd. You're paying young player 3rd line money and only giving up a 3rd for a kid with upside. Now they'd probably all get matched, but a worthy risks to take for talent.

Teams will match and you get nothing but new ennemies in the end. It doesn't make sense for anyone unless that specific team is in direct competition with you for a playoff spot or the cup.

 

[henchman21]

More teams should do what the Bolts did with Stamkos, put sentiment aside and realize that a guy well into his 30s who's already on a decline should not get a long-term deal. Let him get his money somewhere else.

The reason teams don't do this is simply the backlash the Bolts have gotten.

 

[LOFIN]

It is just an unwritten rule to not offer sheet. it really started after the mess that the 90s made of them. Poison pill stuff and absurd bonuses (IIRC Fedorov made like 28m one year because of one). When the new CBA came in and UFA age was lowered, it was basically unwritten that you don't F with another team's RFA. Doesn't mean it won't happen, but they aren't just tossed around.

I'd argue though that it makes a ton of sense to offersheet players. IE right now, teams could go after Harley on a 5 year 6.8m deal and it would make a ton of sense. He's a legit top pairing guy in his prime, who may progress to a #1. If you can get that for a 1st and 3rd, you'd be crazy not to. Now Dallas would likely match, but it would put them in a bind. Doing the same for Seider to 8.5-9m also makes a ton of sense. Seider for a 1st + 2nd + 3rd is a no brainer. On the lower end, take Tomasino... 2.2m gets you a young player that has flashed top 6 skill, played at a very high level in the AHL... and for a 3rd. You're paying young player 3rd line money and only giving up a 3rd for a kid with upside. Now they'd probably all get matched, but a worthy risks to take for talent.

There are tons of players you would like to offersheet. But the number of offersheets that have a chance of succeeding isn't that big. What you just laid out with Harley, Seider, Tommasino... All would probably get matched. You basically have to overpay and take a risk if you want to have an offersheet successful. Not only in that the team receiving it would not match it, but to make it enticing for the player to sign it.

 

[henchman21]

Teams will match and you get nothing but new ennemies in the end. It doesn't make sense for anyone unless that specific team is in direct competition with you for a playoff spot or the cup.

The occasional one would work, but if they don't... you could gain a competitive advantage cap wise. Especially a team as poor drafting as the Avs... the 2nd and 3rd round picks they've wasted over the years could potentially have gotten them depth. The Tomasino example would be a great one today for the Avs if they had their 2025 pick.

 

[henchman21]

There are tons of players you would like to offersheet. But the number of offersheets that have a chance of succeeding isn't that big. What you just laid out with Harley, Seider, Tommasino... All would probably get matched. You basically have to overpay and take a risk if you want to have an offersheet successful. Not only in that the team receiving it would not match it, but to make it enticing for the player to sign it.

Harley would have large incentive. Dallas is going to work on getting that to 4.5m or lower and on a shorter term (2 or 3 years). Harley gets more money now, guaranteed, and would be a UFA early.

Even if they get matched, the cap situation matters. Forcing Dallas to give up a ~2-3m player has an impact. If you did both Parssinen and Tomasino, you'd put Nashville in a bind to choose where you likely get one... and Nashville is a bit weaker.

IMO offersheets should be utilized a lot more. Yeah it would have big impacts on RFAs, but if you're a team with a weak pool, own most of your picks, and lack depth... they are the best shots worth taking. I'd much rather 2nds be spent trying to get Tomasino for 3-5 years vs Eller.

 

[Chiarelli]

Just because we don't hear about that many offersheets doesn't mean they aren't necessarily being sent out either. Takes two to tango and you only hear if it gets signed not tendered. Lots of teams at or close to the cap (also may lack the picks), the ones with space aren't the most appealing bunch of teams. The guy signing it has to realistically accept that he could be playing there.

 

[Pokecheque]

The reason teams don't do this is simply the backlash the Bolts have gotten.

You'd think THOSE fans would understand given how horribly both Lecavalier and Richards aged into their 30s.

Obviously there's risk letting a franchise icon go, but if you can't make the tough decisions then you end up being the Winnipeg Jets.

 

[henchman21]

You'd think THOSE fans would understand given how horribly both Lecavalier and Richards aged into their 30s.

Obviously there's risk letting a franchise icon go, but if you can't make the tough decisions then you end up being the Winnipeg Jets.

Most fans don't care about aging curves, they want the names and faces they associate with the team to be there. Avs will be in the same situation and do exactly what they did with Hejduk and Sakic.

 

[dahrougem2]

The sooner NHL player movement gets to NBA level the better.

Get these geriatric f*** GMs out of the league, too.

 

[Balthazar]

Frankly owners and their front offices need to change their perceptions entirely when it comes to this. It's UFA megadeals that almost always result in a GM shooting themselves in the foot, not RFA deals. And players have (rightfully) pushed for better contracts at the RFA stage because that's when they're in their prime years. Third contracts are almost always a mistake.

More teams should do what the Bolts did with Stamkos, put sentiment aside and realize that a guy well into his 30s who's already on a decline should not get a long-term deal. Let him get his money somewhere else.

If owners and GMs continue this anachronistic view of RFA deals like Dundon and the Canes and Jarmo and the Jackets have, then they're simply not going to be successful. And really, offer sheets and the fear of their use should spur teams to get their shit done quickly instead of these long, drawn out negotiation processes.

I don't like offer sheets but I agree with the UFA stuff.

The reason teams don't do this is simply the backlash the Bolts have gotten.

Other than Stamkos not being happy which backlash are you referring to?

 

[Pokecheque]

Most fans don't care about aging curves, they want the names and faces they associate with the team to be there. Avs will be in the same situation and do exactly what they did with Hejduk and Sakic.

Yeah, I know, unfortunately Avs fans have the exact opposite problem--Hejduk and Sakic aged quite well IIRC, Sakic especially. I remember thinking it was so weird when Brad Richards hung 'em up at age 36, but that's really when the aging curve hits you hard, if not sooner.

I do not see Nate, Cale, and Mikko doing the same. Hell, they'll be lucky as hell if Landy even makes it to 35.

 

[henchman21]

Other than Stamkos not being happy which backlash are you referring to?

Season ticket sales are down and more individual tickets are available now compared to last year and years prior. There was a lot of vitriol spewed over various social media platforms by fans (still is). Local media didn't take well to it. If Guentzel struggles at all, it'll get worse too. The business side has taken a strong hit. Right now, if Tampa keeps winning, they'll survive. If they start to struggle this will be the beginning of some unruly fans.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1824158170631041271

 

[dahrougem2]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1824158170631041271

I thought dude was in prison lol

 

[henchman21]

I thought dude was in prison lol

Give it 10 years.