Rumor: 2024-2025 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Talk | The Slow Crawl to the Season

[Ararana]

Anyone who thinks the Avalanche would be a better team without their very best winger, a power forward who's scored 311 points over the past three seasons, is living in delusion.

His post didn't say they'd be better. He's questioning exactly how much worse they would be and whether it's worth his upcoming raise.

Despite their efforts, the Avs can't keep everyone. Clubs like Tampa Bay learned this and stay significantly more competitive for longer than the Avs have.

 

[Balthazar]

Anyone who thinks the Avalanche would be a better team without their very best winger, a power forward who's scored 311 points over the past three seasons, is living in delusion.

Unless you have a magical two-way forward who's currently not rehabbing a knee or a coke habit, or some dynamic scoring forward who's somehow making their way to Colorado, the Avs would be taking a HUGE step back by getting rid of Rants.

The notion that cap space alone can just conjure up depth that will somehow match or surpass the loss of an elite scoring forward is just wishful thinking.

I'm frustrated by Mikko's rather wonky work ethic as much as the next guy but the hate is really reaching astronomical levels where people just aren't thinking rationally anymore.

Do you want to win the cup or not? If you want to win the cup you should know that we need depth a lot more than a 3rd elite player.

That's how it is. That's not my opinion. That's not up for debate. Depth wins cups. Cold hard fact.

 

[BleedWell]

Do you want to win the cup or not? If you want to win the cup you should know that we need depth a lot more than a 3rd elite player.

That's how it is. That's not my opinion. That's not up for debate. Depth wins cups. Cold hard fact.

 

[dahrougem2]

Do you want to win the cup or not? If you want to win the cup you should know that we need depth a lot more than a 3rd elite player.

That's how it is. That's not my opinion. That's not up for debate. Depth wins cups. Cold hard fact.

Depth only takes you so far. You need top tier talent.

Every cup winner has at least 3 players either elite or playing at elite levels minus St. Louis - and they had 2 in O'Reilly and Pietrangelo.

We gotta accept that Mikko is here for the long haul.

 

[Pokecheque]

Do you want to win the cup or not? If you want to win the cup you should know that we need depth a lot more than a 3rd elite player.

That's how it is. That's not my opinion. That's not up for debate. Depth wins cups. Cold hard fact.

You need talent AND depth. Carolina has depth. Seattle has depth. They haven’t done shit yet. And it’s because there’s not a single gamebreaker on that roster. Sacrificing that talent for depth is not going to make them better. Especially when Nate was already overburdened with having to be The Guy every night last year, losing Mikko will only make that worse.

Vegas actually sacrificed depth for talent and it worked out for one year. They’ve been trying to rebuild that depth and it certainly didn’t work this year.

Again, just booting an expensive star is not going to magically make the team better. Exactly WHO would you get that would make the Avs better with Rants gone?

The only real way to have it both ways is to draft well. The Avs haven’t done that, so the choice is to either risk a major retool or just keep the core together and do the best they can with limited cap space.

We just need to thank our lucky stars that the Avs DID put it together enough to win it all in 2022.

 

[The Abusement Park]

It's far from a given that the team would be worse without Rantanen (and his cap hit).

We're talking about a team with 2 top 5 players in the league here, this isn't the Hurricanes. We have the gamebreakers to win the cup but we don't have the depth and you can buy a shitload of good depth with 12M.

Yeesh. The Mikko hate is getting insane around here.

Here's our forward lineup without Mikko.

Lehkonen-Mack-Drouin
Landy*-Mitts-Nuke^
Wood-Colton-LOC
Kelly-Wagner-Kivi

*Landy literally may not be an NHL player anymore and if he is, likely not a 1st line level talent anymore

^There's a 85% chance Nuke snorts his way out of another season.

There's got to be some sort of plan for replacing Mikko if you get rid of him, not just "get more depth." Where are we getting top 6 players that are value for money and are actually good in the top 6? Free agency? Not possible. Trade? With what assets. In a trade with Mikko? Find a trade partner that would give us the necessary assets and cap space you're looking for.

I get its going to suck to lose out on cap flexibility in Mikkos new deal, but with how much uncertainty there currently is in the top 6 just getting rid of Mikko isn't happening. We don't have the gamebreakers up front anymore, Mack and Mitts are a good 1-2 punch down the middle, but leaving them with Nuke, Landy, and Lehky as the only guaranteed is just as problematic as Mikko and his huge contract.

 

[Balthazar]

You need talent AND depth. Carolina has depth. Seattle has depth. They haven’t done shit yet. And it’s because there’s not a single gamebreaker on that roster. Sacrificing that talent for depth is not going to make them better. Especially when Nate was already overburdened with having to be The Guy every night last year, losing Mikko will only make that worse.

Vegas actually sacrificed depth for talent and it worked out for one year. They’ve been trying to rebuild that depth and it certainly didn’t work this year.

Again, just booting an expensive star is not going to magically make the team better. Exactly WHO would you get that would make the Avs better with Rants gone?

The only real way to have it both ways is to draft well. The Avs haven’t done that, so the choice is to either risk a major retool or just keep the core together and do the best they can with limited cap space.

We just need to thank our lucky stars that the Avs DID put it together enough to win it all in 2022.

Tampa's top players were still elite but they started to lose when they lost their depth. They chose to keep all their top players at the expense of their depth and slowly but surely went down the drain.

You can win the cup without 3 superstars, you see it all the time, but no team in the last 30+ years has won the cup without above average depth. Zero.

As it stands the Avs depth is bottom 5 in the league. Good f***ing luck going anywhere in the playoffs with that.

 

[John Mandalorian]

If the Avs want depth, it needs to come from pro scouting. They’re not big players in free agency and they haven’t drafted well. This is their opportunity to upgrade.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Tampa's top players were still elite but they started to lose when they lost their depth. They chose to keep all their top players at the expense of their depth and slowly but surely went down the drain.

You can win the cup without 3 superstars, you see it all the time, but no team in the last 30+ years has won the cup without above average depth. Zero.

As it stands the Avs depth is bottom 5 in the league. Good f***ing luck going anywhere in the playoffs with that.

Pretty much but hey this core won 1 atleast.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Tampa's top players were still elite but they started to lose when they lost their depth. They chose to keep all their top players at the expense of their depth and slowly but surely went down the drain.

You can win the cup without 3 superstars, you see it all the time, but no team in the last 30+ years has won the cup without above average depth. Zero.

As it stands the Avs depth is bottom 5 in the league. Good f***ing luck going anywhere in the playoffs with that.

Hence the salary cap is working.... It's a natural progression that can only be saved by top tier drafting. And nothing about that is a guarantee even for the best drafting teams.

 

[shadow1]

Aside from Coleman, all of the depth that has left Tampa Bay is either regressing (Gourde, Killorn, Palat) or smoldering toilet paper (Goodrow, Johnson). The Lightning tried to replace those players, but the results have been extremely mixed (Hagel/Paul juxtaposed against Jeannot/Sheary). All the while Vasilievsiky has taken a clear step back.

I don't think anyone can look back and say they should've moved a star to keep some combination of those players. Tampa's window started closing and their previously infallible GM started making mistakes. Short of drafting Datsyuk and Zetterberg super late, every team's window is relatively short.

With the Avs specifically, there's no way they're a better team without Rantanen. He's in his prime and on a potential HHOF trajectory. Yes, the team needs more depth, and they'll have to add it at the deadline again. The only teams that structure themselves around depth are teams without star players. The teams with both stars and depth are the ones who've drafted well.

That said, Colorado's depth issues are blown out of proportion. The situation is nuanced because of Landeskog/Nichushkin, but their biggest positional player needs are around the edges of the roster. Their biggest issue, by far (IMO), is in net. Landeskog could have a successful comeback, Nichushkin could stay clean, the Avs could add pieces at the deadline, and still lose to Dallas in the 2nd round due to Oettinger >>> Georgiev. But that has nothing to do with Rantanen, so I digress.

 

[deca guard]

Hence the salary cap is working.... It's a natural progression that can only be saved by top tier drafting. And nothing about that is a guarantee even for the best drafting teams.

i dont call preventing dynastys and creating a bunch of mediocre teams playing boring hockey determined by power plays working

 

[Pokecheque]

Tampa's top players were still elite but they started to lose when they lost their depth. They chose to keep all their top players at the expense of their depth and slowly but surely went down the drain.

You can win the cup without 3 superstars, you see it all the time, but no team in the last 30+ years has won the cup without above average depth. Zero.

As it stands the Avs depth is bottom 5 in the league. Good f***ing luck going anywhere in the playoffs with that.

And so getting rid of Kucherov so they could keep the Coleman-Gourde-Goodrow line would’ve won them another Cup!?

 

[Balthazar]

Hence the salary cap is working.... It's a natural progression that can only be saved by top tier drafting. And nothing about that is a guarantee even for the best drafting teams.

Makar + Mack + good depth would still have a decent chance at another cup IMO. Especially if they were to replace Georgiev.

And so getting rid of Kucherov so they could keep the Coleman-Gourde-Goodrow line would’ve won them another Cup!?

Kuch isn't their 3rd best player.

 

[Pokecheque]

Makar + Mack + good depth would still have a decent chance at another cup IMO. Especially if they were to replace Georgiev.

Again, who are these mythical players and amazing starting goalie are you getting to replace what’s being lost with Rants out?

Kuch isn't their 3rd best player.

Who is/was it then? Hedman? Stamkos? Point? You take away any of those guys they’re still not getting another Cup.

 

[Balthazar]

Again, who are these mythical players and amazing starting goalie are you getting to replace what’s being lost with Rants out?

Jesus Christ dude...get a Hyman style winger, staple him next to Mack, put him on PP1 and you get 80% of Rants production for half the AAV.

The first line don't need Rantanen to produce offensively.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Jesus Christ dude...get a Hyman style winger, staple him next to Mack, put him on PP1 and you get 80% of Rants production for half the AAV.

The first line don't need Rantanen to produce offensively.

Who's the next Hyman and how are we getting him? Trade? UFA?

Who who who? You keep saying get good depth to compete, but who are these guys?

I'm open to anything to continue the window, but just saying get good depth is easier said than done. Who are we targeting and how are we getting them? Do we even have the assets to make it work?

 

[dahrougem2]

Tampa's top players were still elite but they started to lose when they lost their depth. They chose to keep all their top players at the expense of their depth and slowly but surely went down the drain.

You can win the cup without 3 superstars, you see it all the time, but no team in the last 30+ years has won the cup without above average depth. Zero.

As it stands the Avs depth is bottom 5 in the league. Good f***ing luck going anywhere in the playoffs with that.

Please tell me who these "all the time" teams are without 3 superstars?

Florida? Tkachuk, Barkov, and one of Forsling/Bobrovsky

Vegas? Eichel, Stone, Pietrangelo

Colorado? We know who

Tampa? Kucherov, Hedman, Point, Vasi, Stamkos

Washington? Ovechkin, Kuznetsov, Backstrom, Carlson

Pittsburgh? Crosby, Malkin, Letang

Chicago? Kane, Toews, Keith

LA? Kopitar, Doughty, Quick

You make it sound like teams just win with 1 guy and the rest depth. No. You need elite talent.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

We can just sign 2-3 guys to replace Rantanen in free agency.

As we know, the Avs are a very desirable destination for free agents.

Or we can draft new superstars outside of drafting in the top 10 picks.

As we know, the Avs are an excellent drafting team.

 

[Mighty Makar]

I hate this f***en team.

 

[RockLobster]

I hate this f***en team.

No, you hate this f***en team.

 

[JLo217]

We can just sign 2-3 guys to replace Rantanen in free agency.

As we know, the Avs are a very desirable destination for free agents.

Or we can draft new superstars outside of drafting in the top 10 picks.

As we know, the Avs are an excellent drafting team.

I hate that you’re right.

 

[AslanRH]

It's pretty simple, you can't expect to win the trade if you are trading the best player in the deal.
It's about mitigating loss. Didn't we learn anything from the Duchene saga?

 

[Murzu]

It's pretty simple, you can't expect to win the trade if you are trading the best player in the deal.
It's about mitigating loss. Didn't we learn anything from the Duchene saga?

Duchene trade was great.

 

[LOFIN]

Duchene trade was great.

In retrospect, yeah. Turned out great. But it wasn't perceived as this huge win.