Rumor: 2024-2025 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Talk | The Slow Crawl to the Season

[Vaslof]

Without Nuke's and Landy's problems it might have been a possibility to not re-sign Rantanen. Also if the cap hadn't increased, then we would have had to let him go. But with the circumstances being what they are, it would be insanity to not try to re-sign him. If he goes he goes because he wants to go. I guess some of you guys can hope for that to happen.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

Just sign Rantanen to a retirement contract. Either way the window is closed. The first year after the cup was the last real chance to contend. The next five years are just shuffling the deck chairs on the titanic.

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

It's far from a given that the team would be worse without Rantanen (and his cap hit).

We're talking about a team with 2 top 5 players in the league here, this isn't the Hurricanes. We have the gamebreakers to win the cup but we don't have the depth and you can buy a shitload of good depth with 12M.

Maybe I'm missing something about all of this "we don't have depth" drama going on. We have:

Lando-Mack-Drouin
Nuke-Mitts-Rant
Lehky-Colton-LOC

as potential top 9 forward group for the playoffs this year.
For 25-26, I didn't do my homework properly but I think the following is the situation:
- The cap goes up about $4.5M.
- $3.25M goes to Rantanen, leaving $1.25M
- Georgiev and his $3.4M need to be flipped into another goalie at the same or similar cap.
- We will lose LOC
- We will likely add Ritchie to the 3rd line
- $1.25M to resign Drouin is a bit short.

So all in all, a swap of LOC for Ritchie and some maneuvering needed to re-sign Drouin.
Does this really warrant trading one of the best winger in the league ?

 

[The Abusement Park]

Without Nuke's and Landy's problems it might have been a possibility to not re-sign Rantanen. Also if the cap hadn't increased, then we would have had to let him go. But with the circumstances being what they are, it would be insanity to not try to re-sign him. If he goes he goes because he wants to go. I guess some of you guys can hope for that to happen.

100%. If Landy and Nuke were in a spot where things were more consistent moving Rants could be somewhat more feasible. But no Mikko leaves the forward core in a horrible spot.

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

Just sign Rantanen to a retirement contract. Either way the window is closed. The first year after the cup was the last real chance to contend. The next five years are just shuffling the deck chairs on the titanic.

Lando-Mack-Drouin
Nuke-Mitts-Rant
Lehky-Colton-LOC

Toews-Makar
G-Manson

Window closed ?
Really?

Please list how many teams in the entire NHL have a clearly better line-up than that.

 

[LOFIN]

A blast from the past

 

[Pokecheque]

Man, I thought Calen Addison could work his way into some kind of depth role at the very least but his NHL career is hanging by a thread now.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Lando-Mack-Drouin
Nuke-Mitts-Rant
Lehky-Colton-LOC

Toews-Makar
G-Manson

Window closed ?
Really?

Please list how many teams in the entire NHL have a clearly better line-up than that.

I mean there’s some huge questions surrounding Landys ability(going forwards) and Nukes availability. There’s absolutely potential for a very good top 6, but there’s also a possibility that things go horribly wrong. Hence why getting rid of Mikko is so risky.

Man, I thought Calen Addison could work his way into some kind of depth role at the very least but his NHL career is hanging by a thread now.

There’s a real chance Malinski is looking at a similar situation to Addison. NHL talent offensively, but the sheltered bottom pair PPQB just isn’t much of a role anymore.

 

[AvsFan4]

I mean there’s some huge questions surrounding Landys ability(going forwards) and Nukes availability. There’s absolutely potential for a very good top 6, but there’s also a possibility that things go horribly wrong. Hence why getting rid of Mikko is so risky.

That’s why I’m not ready to say the window is completely shut. What if Landeskog comes back and gives us adequate, maybe a little subpar 2nd line level of play. And what if Nichushkin stays clean? I’m not ready to say either way. We’ll probly know that answer around January or February

 

[henchman21]

There’s a real chance Malinski is looking at a similar situation to Addison. NHL talent offensively, but the sheltered bottom pair PPQB just isn’t much of a role anymore.

Yup that is a dying part of the NHL, especially with the reemergence of desiring size on the bottom pairing. Not many teams are rolling smaller and softer players in that role anymore. The Avs going all in on that style is going to be interesting to see not only how it fairs in the regular season, but also the playoffs.

 

[John Mandalorian]

All due respect that's overly simplistic and not in tune with the reality of the situation. Taking an elite scoring winger out of the picture and just assuming there's enough B-level talent to make up for his absence is a lofty gamble at best. More than likely you're replacing him with a vastly inferior set of players who will only exacerbate the issue from last year, which was overworking MacKinnon and Makar to the point of complete exhaustion.

It reminds of the time when the cap was first implemented, Boston and Edmonton both let top talent walk to clear cap room because they thought they could just fill the roster via free agency. When they realized there wasn't any talent available, they scrambled like hell and signed inferior players to inflated sums. The Oilers even signed pancake enthusiast Dustin Penner to a desperation offer sheet (and this is coming from someone who actually liked Penner as a player).

I'd be all for letting Mikko go via trade if I honestly believed there was a path to make the team better overall, but that simply isn't going to happen. At best, they take a step back this year and probably next year, and by then--as Henchy points out--the core will likely be too old to contend.

Again, the only way to have really staved off what we're seeing now would have been to draft better, and the Avs are doing far too little far too late to correct that now.

Nonsense. There’s some dark silhouette of a player out there that is a Zach Hyman clone and that we’re supposed to assume exists for the purpose of “winning” an argument about the importance of cap space.

 

[Pokecheque]

Nonsense. There’s some dark silhouette of a player out there that is a Zach Hyman clone and that we’re supposed to assume exists for the purpose of “winning” an argument about the importance of cap space.

 

[henchman21]

There is an importance to cap space, especially as we look to the future... I just don't think there is enough time to retool. If the move had been to send Rants for a high end, young center prospect, top 6 wing prospect, and a 1st... a season or two ago, you could probably make a argument the Avs would be better today. IE would the Avs be better off today with Byram + Mitts + Peterka + Benson for Rants (negate the Byram/Mitts swap for Rants for Mitts + Peterka + 1st that turned into Benson)? I'd think that is a pretty strong case. But today, I can't see a deal that helps now and next season.

Cap wise though... this is what the Avs are looking at for 25-26:

Nuke (6.125)-Mack (12.6) - Rants (12.5)
Landy (7) - Mitts (5.75) - Lehky (4.5)
Wood (2.5) - Colton (4.0) - LOC or replacement (3.0)
Vet/ELC (1) - Vet/ELC (1.0) - Vet/ELC (1.0)

Towes (7.25) - Makar (9.0)
Girard (5) - Manson (4.5)
Vet/ELC (1.0)- Vet/ELC (1.0)

Traded for Goalie (3.75)
Annunen (.838)

That right there... with no extras is over the expected cap. Even today, if Nuke and Landy are good to go in November.... the cap gets tricky. There is a breaking point to all of this.

 

[cinchronicity]

Maybe I'm missing something about all of this "we don't have depth" drama going on. We have:

Lando-Mack-Drouin
Nuke-Mitts-Rant
Lehky-Colton-LOC

as potential top 9 forward group for the playoffs this year.
For 25-26, I didn't do my homework properly but I think the following is the situation:
- The cap goes up about $4.5M.
- $3.25M goes to Rantanen, leaving $1.25M
- Georgiev and his $3.4M need to be flipped into another goalie at the same or similar cap.
- We will lose LOC
- We will likely add Ritchie to the 3rd line
- $1.25M to resign Drouin is a bit short.

So all in all, a swap of LOC for Ritchie and some maneuvering needed to re-sign Drouin.
Does this really warrant trading one of the best winger in the league ?

It is shortsighted to look at a single year out of an 8 year contract. If Drouin performs as he did the final 75% of last season, he is going to get offers far higher than $3.75. One of two things happens in goal: 1) Georgie plays like Shesterkin and demands ( and gets somewhere) more than $3.25 or 2) He really sucks and the Avs need to pony up for a goalie ( is Nabakov really going to take the #1 in 12 months? I doubt it.) Mitts is a UFA the year after that. Where is his money coming from? For those who reply " Ritchie on an ELC", that contract will be up the same time as Mitts, Makar, Lehky and Girard.

Signing Mikko for $12M+ is like the death of 1000 cuts. Sure, LOC is a swallowable loss. But then Drouin? Then Lehky? Then Mitts? All the while Landy is eating $7M to play 3LW.

I think CMac is going to sign Mikko. But the Avs have already proven (twice in 2 years) that they are unable to get out of the second round with an elite top line and elite top pair. How does it get any easier after handing Mikko his retirement contract? Especially after moving Byram for only 3 years of Mitts? This is not simply a matter of losing LOC next year.

 

[Balthazar]

There is an importance to cap space, especially as we look to the future... I just don't think there is enough time to retool. If the move had been to send Rants for a high end, young center prospect, top 6 wing prospect, and a 1st... a season or two ago, you could probably make a argument the Avs would be better today. IE would the Avs be better off today with Byram + Mitts + Peterka + Benson for Rants (negate the Byram/Mitts swap for Rants for Mitts + Peterka + 1st that turned into Benson)? I'd think that is a pretty strong case. But today, I can't see a deal that helps now and next season.

Cap wise though... this is what the Avs are looking at for 25-26:

Nuke (6.125)-Mack (12.6) - Rants (12.5)
Landy (7) - Mitts (5.75) - Lehky (4.5)
Wood (2.5) - Colton (4.0) - LOC or replacement (3.0)
Vet/ELC (1) - Vet/ELC (1.0) - Vet/ELC (1.0)

Towes (7.25) - Makar (9.0)
Girard (5) - Manson (4.5)
Vet/ELC (1.0)- Vet/ELC (1.0)

Traded for Goalie (3.75)
Annunen (.838)

That right there... with no extras is over the expected cap. Even today, if Nuke and Landy are good to go in November.... the cap gets tricky. There is a breaking point to all of this.

That's without Drouin, too.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

That’s why I’m not ready to say the window is completely shut. What if Landeskog comes back and gives us adequate, maybe a little subpar 2nd line level of play. And what if Nichushkin stays clean? I’m not ready to say either way. We’ll probly know that answer around January or February

 

[Balthazar]

Signing Mikko for $12M+ is like the death of 1000 cuts.

They aren't winning another cup with Mikko on the payroll. That's as far as we know.

They may not win another one without Mikko either but at least there's a small chance.

There is an importance to cap space, especially as we look to the future... I just don't think there is enough time to retool.

There's a window between 9M Makar and 15M Makar. I'd not call that a retool though, we don't need young players we just need to raise the floor.

 

[henchman21]

There's a window between 9M Makar and 15M Makar. I'd not call that a retool though, we don't need young players we just need to raise the floor.

Right now, any trade for Mikko would be heavily futures based. You could swap those pieces, but that seems very unlikely for a front office that doesn't operate in that manner. A season or two ago, Mikko could have easily been swapped in a hockey sort of trade where the Avs got NHL pieces back. Today, you're looking at prospects and picks.

 

[The Abusement Park]

They aren't winning another cup with Mikko on the payroll. That's as far as we know.

Who can we get in a Mikko trade right now that doesn’t waste a crucial year at the end of our contention window?

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Right now, any trade for Mikko would be heavily futures based. You could swap those pieces, but that seems very unlikely for a front office that doesn't operate in that manner. A season or two ago, Mikko could have easily been swapped in a hockey sort of trade where the Avs got NHL pieces back. Today, you're looking at prospects and picks.

This is why I can't see Avs doing it. We don't time have time for the futures. We are stuck with few great players and otherwise meh team. Chicago destiny, unless we get very lucky with free agents or some draft picks.



At least we won once with this core. That's massive though. It's so hard in the end.

 

[chet1926]

One can easily be led astray by using arbitrary cutoff point numbers as absolute guages of success - 100 point season, 50 goal season, etc.

For example, if Player A has two 50 goal seasons, and Player B has zero 50 goal seasons, Player A is much better on the Chet scale, ya?

But what if I told you that Player B has ten 49 goal seasons? Who’s the better player now?

Bottom line: over the past 5 seasons cumulatively, Rantanen is 6th highest in the league in goals, and 9th in points. Rantanen is also over a ppg in playoff scoring 6 seasons in a row.

He’s scoring top 6/top 9 in the league. He’s going to get paid top 6/top 9 in the league. Period. Probably higher than that, given when he’s signing his next contract.

Rantanen may not get paid exactly equal to the top centers, but he’ll be close. He’ll certainly get paid at the top of the list for wings.

Sure, numbers are just numbers. Making arbitrary cutoffs is kind of whatever, but still a somewhat reasonable starting point. Obviously if your stats are in the ballpark of the big mark cutoffs that would taken into consideration as well.

What should be considered is actual comps. The guys getting paid big time are all centers, much more valuable position. Best winger comps are Bread man 11.6 and Pasta 11.25. Pasta's being more recent. Wingers aren't going to get paid like a center. It's not going to happen. Rants won't get an offer from the Avs above what 29 is making. Probably won't be much higher than 12M. Nor should it based on winger comps plus inflation. Someone wants to give him what the top centers are making, let them, we shouldn't be offering that.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Sure, numbers are just numbers. Making arbitrary cutoffs is kind of whatever, but still a somewhat reasonable starting point. Obviously if your stats are in the ballpark of the big mark cutoffs that would taken into consideration as well.

What should be considered is actual comps. The guys getting paid big time are all centers, much more valuable position. Best winger comps are Bread man 11.6 and Pasta 11.25. Pasta's being more recent. Wingers aren't going to get paid like a center. It's not going to happen. Rants won't get an offer from the Avs above what 29 is making. Probably won't be much higher than 12M. Nor should it based on winger comps plus inflation. Someone wants to give him what the top centers are making, let them, we shouldn't be offering that.

Im confused. Why shouldn’t Rants contract be based on winger comps plus inflation?

Doesn’t that seem like the absolute most realistic scenario?

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

Lando-Mack-Drouin
Nuke-Mitts-Rant
Lehky-Colton-LOC

Toews-Makar
G-Manson

Window closed ?
Really?

Please list how many teams in the entire NHL have a clearly better line-up than that.

Of what you listed there's 3 or 4 teams in the West that have clearly better lineups.

And teams are allowed to ice an extra 3 forwards and 2 defense. Just because the Avs choose not to play those other 5 guys doesn't mean other teams won't. And we saw how gassed the Avs were against Dallas after an entire season of only 14 guys getting ice time each night.